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Old 2012-09-17, 18:13   Link #21
Kayu
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I agree with most people here about the dissapiontment that was dragon age 2.
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Old 2012-09-17, 18:42   Link #22
Waven
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My optimistic side says: Yay, another DA and they seem to try and learn from their mistakes of ME3 and DA2.

My pessimistic side tells me: "Day1 DLC with Morrigan plot and companion exclusive."
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Old 2012-09-17, 19:39   Link #23
Flying Dagger
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This may anger some bioware fans out there: but I wish they do not allow imports of old saves in DA3. Most of the time they have little to no impact. ME3 is an ugly exception where "if you want to see the good endings, you better import a save".

On DLCs: additional companion in DLCs are stupid. ME3 really cross the line when a prothean come out of no where... Not to mention he has, imo, some of the best lines of the game. Seeing him crush Liara's image of everything (esp at the temple) was priceless.

"but they ate bugs..."

DLCs should offer good solid content with significant game play value.


On items:
There def has room for a lot more armor sets and such.
As mentioned in an earlier post, armor needs to be worth more. I would like to see more stats on armor (+5con or +5 str or just +10 hp is not very attractive).
I am a believer that "set bonus" should not just be raw additional stats, but possibly something that can change your play style.
A full rogue set can do something such as:
"Granting 2 seconds of stealth every kill"
"Your auto attacks have a 5% chance to stun the target"

while a mage set can have something such as:
"Grants the benefits of the soul drain ability" (the one where you siphon mana out of corpses)
"Your fire spells leaves behind an additional damage over time effect"
"decrease the cost of all spells by 10%"
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Old 2012-09-17, 20:08   Link #24
Random Wanderer
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I kind of hope they unnerf mages, but I'm probably alone in that. I felt they did too good a job at balancing mages to the point that they were exactly equal in combat with every other class. There's actually no need for templars any more, because a guy with magic is exactly equal to a guy with a sword: except squishier.

(I've been playing Dragon Age: Origins again recently, and as such have remembered what it was like when magic actually felt like magic. When I could actually do spell combos by myself, and not just set up "team combos" for some other member of my party, who probably hasn't been trained in the one skill that would allow him or her to take advantage of it. When I could wipe out a whole damned mass of enemies with Storm of the Century.)

I miss magic. Which is sad, considering that DA2 was all about mages and stuff.

ANYway, I refuse to have any great hope for this game. I've been burned a few too many times recently by these folks. I used to implicitly trust them to deliver me good games. I would buy anything they made, sight unseen. But they betrayed that trust, and they're going to have to work if they want to earn even part of it back.
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Old 2012-09-17, 20:45   Link #25
Daniel E.
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In Origins, I didn't like how most shops had a great selection for knights and rogues, but often very little for mages. I like to play with a mage character and it would be nice if there were more choices when it comes to shopping for them in DA3.
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Old 2012-09-17, 21:14   Link #26
Terrestrial Dream
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
I kind of hope they unnerf mages, but I'm probably alone in that. I felt they did too good a job at balancing mages to the point that they were exactly equal in combat with every other class. There's actually no need for templars any more, because a guy with magic is exactly equal to a guy with a sword: except squishier.

(I've been playing Dragon Age: Origins again recently, and as such have remembered what it was like when magic actually felt like magic. When I could actually do spell combos by myself, and not just set up "team combos" for some other member of my party, who probably hasn't been trained in the one skill that would allow him or her to take advantage of it. When I could wipe out a whole damned mass of enemies with Storm of the Century.)

I miss magic. Which is sad, considering that DA2 was all about mages and stuff.

ANYway, I refuse to have any great hope for this game. I've been burned a few too many times recently by these folks. I used to implicitly trust them to deliver me good games. I would buy anything they made, sight unseen. But they betrayed that trust, and they're going to have to work if they want to earn even part of it back.
True, magic had the most diversity so that is why it was so powerful, hell it could tank better than warrior in Origin. So all they need to do is make other classes diversify. My favorite class was rouge, but there was really one viable build for that class, Bioware just needs to create more option.
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Old 2012-09-17, 21:41   Link #27
FlareKnight
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I'm just hoping that the party in this game is better overall than DA2. Varric was literally the only party member I even liked as a person. The rest went from not wanting them in the party (like Anders) to just keeping them around for their use in a fight.

Also hoping there isn't going to be more Day 1 DLC, though probably impossible to stop at this point. Just want to hang back this time and be sure the game is good from start to finish.
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Old 2012-09-17, 21:43   Link #28
willx
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
True, magic had the most diversity so that is why it was so powerful, hell it could tank better than warrior in Origin. So all they need to do is make other classes diversify. My favorite class was rouge, but there was really one viable build for that class, Bioware just needs to create more option.
Yeah.. Blood Mage / Spirit Warrior tanking was just silly..

Then again, Origins followed the Baldur's Gate tradition of mages being OP.. Only at super high levels did warriors become more powerful. With so much health and resist, you would just walk through it all and chop them in half with a single strike.
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Old 2012-09-17, 23:44   Link #29
creb
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I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed DA II's story (then again, I'm also in the even smaller minority who apparently liked the ME 3 ending). That said, the huge time skips, the cliffhanger ending (without an expansion pack), the huge chunks of plot you could just feel were missing, the rediculous romance aspects that made NPCs the shallowest characters ever created as Bioware attempted to appease every sexual preference known to mankind, the most egregious use of recycled textures/maps ever, etc, so greatly overwhelmed my enjoyment of the story, the sheer "if only they had" thoughts raging through my head as I beat the game the first time in 14 hours...all combined to force me to give the game a 1/10 on principle alone.

Some thoughts:

1) That goofus, Mike Laidlaw, not being the guy who wrote that letter. Though, the real question is, is he still attached to Dragon Age in any capacity? It's difficult for me to think of a game developer/designer/public face, who's enraged me more than he has. If he's still the lead game designer for Dragon Age III, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a shot in hell that it'll be any good.

2) That said, I'm already seeing red flags when this guy who's worked at Bioware 15 years without me (being a semi-hardcore RPG geek), being able to recognize his name without going to google, mentioned his work on Sonic the Hedgehog. I have to mention this, because when Mike Laidlaw first burst on the scene as the face of DA II, my very first thought was, "why in the world did Bioware just hand over the reigns of DA to someone who's highest gaming work consisted of...Sonic the Hedgehog". Maybe this similarity means nothing. But, I approach DA III as a skeptic, and this does nothing to reassure me.

3) They've been working on it for 18 months (sure, technically longer, but that's semantics). That's a good thing, seeing how DA II only had about 18 months spent on it. 18 months spent already on DA III means many more months when it is finally ready to be released. This means that the likelihood that I'm going to enter the same ******* cave 97 times is greatly diminished. True story. I spent like an hour in that first cave as you are trying to hand over your little thingamajing to Flemeth trying to figure out how to get through those closed doors. It never occurred to me that you weren't supposed to be able to, and that I'd see the exact same cave so many more times as the game progressed.

4) I don't get the new engine. Mod authors proved you can have armor customization for your followers in DA II (meaning the reality is almost certainly that Bioware simply didn't have the time-or worse, didn't care), so despite what Laidlaw said, that definitely wasn't a limitation of the DA II engine. When I read that as being one of the reasons this new engine was developed, knowing how untrue that entire claim is, I begin to doubt any words being written by this Mark guy.

All that said, I enjoy the lore and story enough that even if that ****-head Laidlaw was in charge of everything, I'd still be buying DA III.

Edit: lol. If you type Mike Laidlaw into google, the first related search term is "Mike Laidlaw fired". I guess I'm not the only person with a very low opinion of the guy.
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Old 2012-09-17, 23:54   Link #30
Flying Dagger
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There are three problems with mages in DA2:
- Friendly fire: this pretty much renders 80% of your damaging spells useless on high difficulties.
- Bioware decided to put major emphasis on Cross Class Combos
- Lack of interesting skills

Point 2 takes away a lot of "fun" stuff away from mages, such as lightning oil on fire, or setting off an armageddon spell (you can't spell armageddon without "mage"!). Instead, we somehow end up with some sort of a super efficient combo: letting your warrior stagger everything (because they have a skill that makes them very good at it), and using chain lightning, which does a ton of bonus damage against staggered opponents AND also deals no friendly fire damage.

A combo that deals +100% damage may be justified... but once you get to the 300% range, I start to wonder why the base spell cannot just deal a little more damage...

Talking of spirit warriors: in DA2 we have those too! Instead of taking a talent tree to become a behemoth of annihilation, you just need to find a late-game elemental damage weapon - allowing your damage to bypass armor.

I dislike how sustained skills in DA:O and DA2 work. They pretty much take a giant chunk out of your stamina/mana. Instead I believe resources should be "generation" base. Say, you get +10 stamina every second, but by turning on a certain passive you drain 4 stamina/second. By switching to this system, resource regeneration items can be added into the game to make the game more interesting.

There are more interesting things you can do under a regen-based system. Blood magic can have an "amped up" mode where the player constantly loses health, but spell damage are boosted and a certain percentage of damage is converted into health. (image your health going through a rollercoaster ride in combat!)

I am aware that there are stats which increases your stamina and mana pool, but due to the lack of actual regen, those stats are pretty much worthless: those stats only delay the time in which you run out of resources.


More on spells:
I actually think part of DA2 is headed in the right direction. You don't really need a ton of different spells, rather, you want meaningful spells and associated talents to go along with those spells.

It would also be nice to see stronger elemental resistances on enemies.

Other than the every day direct damage single/multi target spell, I believe the mage should be able to bring a lot of crowd control options onto the battlefield. On higher difficulties I believe a lot of these "control" are reduced in power to a point where they are not worth using. This is something I do not agree with. The mage should be able to use paralysis, etc on that "commander" class enemy while the rest of the party deal with the underlings, or alternatively, some sort of a powerful AoE crowd control ability can be applied to the underlings while the "leader" is focused down.

Speaking of "underlings', the "trash" mobs in DA2 are way too weak. Merely cannon fodders. This may have to do with my min/max play style where my damage output far exceeded what was expected by the developers.

I believe fights, even trash fights, should still be meaningful. They should last more than 10 seconds. ME3 actually does this decently well: Cerebus have shielded troops that will lead a charge, with support units such as engineers laying down lethal turrets and other standard infantry-types behind the shielded troops.


Oh, bioware should consider giving melee character more access to life draining abilities, or more ways to control their hit points to eliminate the need of a healer in the group.
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Old 2012-09-18, 00:34   Link #31
james0246
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In Origins, I didn't like how most shops had a great selection for knights and rogues, but often very little for mages. I like to play with a mage character and it would be nice if there were more choices when it comes to shopping for them in DA3.
To be fair, in the DA universe magic is not only ostracized, but it is a full on controlled substance. That's why most mage items were hard to find.
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Old 2012-09-18, 03:06   Link #32
Key Board
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
This may anger some bioware fans out there: but I wish they do not allow imports of old saves in DA3. Most of the time they have little to no impact. ME3 is an ugly exception where "if you want to see the good endings, you better import a save".
I agree, but for different reasons

I don't want this game be shackled by decisions made in the past

the more it has to take past and future games into comparison, the more streamlined the story will be

The beauty of the 1st game was there was noticeable differences in choices. Do you wipe out the elves and side with the werewolves? do purge the tower of mages? do you cure the boy of possession or do you just kill him and get on with it? Do piss of Leliana and kill her? Do you hide the discovery of a holy relic? ect

I think all of those choices are only possible because the game does not take into consideration sequel potential. It doesn't give a damn. The first Dragon Age was meant to be a stand alone, so it had more freedom regarding the plot.
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Old 2012-09-18, 06:05   Link #33
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To be fair, in the DA universe magic is not only ostracized, but it is a full on controlled substance. That's why most mage items were hard to find.
True enough... Hopefully with mages rebelling there will be more mage stuff this time around since you know we're getting a mage in our party no matter what.
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Old 2012-09-18, 06:14   Link #34
sudolicious
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I don't follow (western) gaming at all anymore, so this is the first time I'm hearing about this announcement.
DA1 was a decent game and the expansion was pretty fun as well, but BioWare completely messed up 2, it was probably one of the worst games I played in the past decade. After seeing how they butchered ME3 - which I didn't bother to play anymore - I doubt they will go back to focusing on the game with DA3 again, it's all about targeting the largest possible audience.

BioWare are excellent developers of course, on their own they might have actually learned from past mistakes. But with EA in their backs I have to seriously laugh at everyone who thinks they would listen to the community, or let alone learn from DA2/ME3.

I'm sure the cawadooty audience will have its fun with DA3, but everyone who is looking for a halfway decent RPG experience probably will get disappointed.
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Old 2012-09-18, 11:48   Link #35
willx
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I don't follow (western) gaming at all anymore, so this is the first time I'm hearing about this announcement.
DA1 was a decent game and the expansion was pretty fun as well, but BioWare completely messed up 2, it was probably one of the worst games I played in the past decade. After seeing how they butchered ME3 - which I didn't bother to play anymore - I doubt they will go back to focusing on the game with DA3 again, it's all about targeting the largest possible audience.

BioWare are excellent developers of course, on their own they might have actually learned from past mistakes. But with EA in their backs I have to seriously laugh at everyone who thinks they would listen to the community, or let alone learn from DA2/ME3.

I'm sure the cawadooty audience will have its fun with DA3, but everyone who is looking for a halfway decent RPG experience probably will get disappointed.
To be fair, I thought the gameplay for ME3 was fun.. I just hated the ending..

Again, I look forward to DA3 with no small amount of trepidation..
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Old 2012-09-18, 12:03   Link #36
Terrestrial Dream
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To be fair, I thought the gameplay for ME3 was fun.. I just hated the ending..

Again, I look forward to DA3 with no small amount of trepidation..
Yep, Mass Effect 3 until the ending was a great game. Tuchanka mission was my favorite part out of all 3 game.
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Old 2012-09-18, 12:04   Link #37
Flying Dagger
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I think one of the reasons why mages feel left out in items is because armor and weapons really does not mean that much for them. If they are blood mages then they will just gather the various +BM items, some purchased off merchants early on in the game and that is their whole set of gear.

The intro of DA2 was actually pretty well done. You get to fight off a troll with reinforcements which requires a lot of control and dodging on the higher difficulties. As soon as you land in Kirkwall, you get involved in a nasty fight where one of the easier solution would be to lure the guy into guards and let the guards finish him off.

ME3 gameplay was fine in my eyes: but there haven't been that much changes from ME2. There were interesting enemy types and the various defenses (armor/barrier/shields) were meaningful enough. The guns were also a lot more "balanced" that they each have a unique role (well, SMGs were a bit broken, so are shotguns, esp when used with marksman talent). There were a lot of spell combinations which is also kind of nice.
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Old 2012-09-18, 12:05   Link #38
Kyral
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You know BW still manages the get the things right I like in games. Characters and thier interaction with each other.

Story wise DA2 and the ending of ME3 could all be better. But I'll be damned if I don't like the characters from both games.

And I must say I did like some of the design changes of DA2. The new Templar Armors looked a lot better than the DA:O ones and I liked how they made elves not your typical human with pointy ears.
Okay the Qunari took a little while to accept, but in the end they were still Qunari.
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Old 2012-09-18, 12:51   Link #39
Who
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You know BW still manages the get the things right I like in games. Characters and thier interaction with each other.

Story wise DA2 and the ending of ME3 could all be better. But I'll be damned if I don't like the characters from both games.

And I must say I did like some of the design changes of DA2. The new Templar Armors looked a lot better than the DA:O ones and I liked how they made elves not your typical human with pointy ears.
Okay the Qunari took a little while to accept, but in the end they were still Qunari.
Guess I'll be damned then, since I disliked a good portion of DA2's companions. Anders, Merrill, Sebastian and Fenris were all detestable or at best, forgettable for me. Anders in particular, because they just passed him off to a certain writer who I won't mention, but completely disregarded his past characterization and flipped him onto his head, even when I take into consideration that he has to play host to a spirit.
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Old 2012-09-18, 13:56   Link #40
willx
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OH MY GOD.. OH GOD .. NO!

http://kotaku.com/5944287/bioware-fo...-both-retiring
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