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Old 2012-09-19, 08:11   Link #3461
Destined_Fate
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Makes sense since even in Refuse and you lose the war the next Generation wins no matter what by accepting the Reapers proposal.

It's really sad that the only way to beat the Reapers is if they let you win and you agree with their choices.
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Old 2012-09-19, 08:23   Link #3462
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Makes sense since even in Refuse and you lose the war the next Generation wins no matter what by accepting the Reapers proposal.

It's really sad that the only way to beat the Reapers is if they let you win and you agree with their choices.
It's just sad... That after three games, Shepard is told that he wasted his time. Everything he worked for is for naught, because it is canon that he can't beat the Reapers at all.

A weird message to send, isn't it? It would be like reaching the final castle as Mario, only to have him fall on his knees against Bowser, and Princess Peach was lost forever.
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Old 2012-09-19, 09:14   Link #3463
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
It's just sad... That after three games, Shepard is told that he wasted his time. Everything he worked for is for naught, because it is canon that he can't beat the Reapers at all.

A weird message to send, isn't it? It would be like reaching the final castle as Mario, only to have him fall on his knees against Bowser, and Princess Peach was lost forever.
Oh yeah, come to think of it, even Sisko had a better deal when it came to the endgame.
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Old 2012-09-19, 09:17   Link #3464
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
It's just sad... That after three games, Shepard is told that he wasted his time. Everything he worked for is for naught, because it is canon that he can't beat the Reapers at all.

A weird message to send, isn't it? It would be like reaching the final castle as Mario, only to have him fall on his knees against Bowser, and Princess Peach was lost forever.
I'm actually more concerned about how cavalier the writers were about destroying all the mass relays.. When they kept saying over and over again that it was now integral to civilization as they knew it.

Everyone on the Citadel, remote fuel stations and on mining planets/asteroids are going to starve to death and the galaxy will revert back to the dark ages..
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Old 2012-09-19, 09:33   Link #3465
james0246
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Makes sense since even in Refuse and you lose the war the next Generation wins no matter what by accepting the Reapers proposal.
Wait, is this canon? I thought the next generation won because they were better informed and had the technology needed to fight and defeat the Reapers, not because they simply accepted the Catalyst's proposal?

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Originally Posted by willx View Post
I'm actually more concerned about how cavalier the writers were about destroying all the mass relays.. When they kept saying over and over again that it was now integral to civilization as they knew it.
The mass relays are a crutch that hinders the growth and development of all life (whether organic or synthetic) in the galaxy. Besides retconning the explosion, I have no problem with the loss of life over the loss of the mass relays.
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:09   Link #3466
Destined_Fate
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No, Liara left a little AI/VI thing for them which told the next generation not to make their mistake since Refuse killed everyone.
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:23   Link #3467
james0246
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
No, Liara left a little AI/VI thing for them which told the next generation not to make their mistake since Refuse killed everyone.
I didn't get that at all. I saw the message left by Liara (which was sent out before all the crap with the Catalyst was known), as info on the Reapers, their weaknesses, and how and why they fight (as well as potentially the designs for the "The Crucible", though without the Prothean VI there would be no way of knowing that the Citadel is the Catalyst so there would be no way of using the Crucible). I never once thought that the new beacon simply led to the next generations surrender.
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:27   Link #3468
willx
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I didn't get that at all. I saw the message left by Liara (which was sent out before all the crap with the Catalyst was known), as info on the Reapers, their weaknesses, and how and why they fight (as well as potentially the designs for the "The Crucible", though without the Prothean VI there would be no way of knowing that the Citadel is the Catalyst so there would be no way of using the Crucible). I never once thought that the new beacon simply led to the next generations surrender.
Wasn't it stated that the "memory capsule" she left to the next generation thoroughly prepared them and then they actually beat the reapers conventionally?
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:37   Link #3469
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Wasn't it stated that the "memory capsule" she left to the next generation thoroughly prepared them and then they actually beat the reapers conventionally?
That's what I thought happened, but Destined_Fate words have confused me ...
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:40   Link #3470
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
That's what I thought happened, but Destined_Fate words have confused me ...
This was what many people thought was implied in the ending itself but a Bioware employee posted on twitter that the next generation did in fact use the Crucible anyway.

https://twitter.com/GambleMike/statu...70232138301440
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:42   Link #3471
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Wait, is this canon? I thought the next generation won because they were better informed and had the technology needed to fight and defeat the Reapers, not because they simply accepted the Catalyst's proposal?
The Mass Effect team said that "If you choose the Refuse ending, then everyone dies, and the next generation of resistance will simply pick one of the three choices."

In short, no matter what, the Reaper wins.
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:47   Link #3472
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Originally Posted by RWBladewing View Post
This was what many people thought was implied in the ending itself but a Bioware employee posted on twitter that the next generation did in fact use the Crucible anyway.

https://twitter.com/GambleMike/statu...70232138301440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The Mass Effect team said that "If you choose the Refuse ending, then everyone dies, and the next generation of resistance will simply pick one of the three choices."

In short, no matter what, the Reaper wins.
Well...that sucks.
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Old 2012-09-19, 10:48   Link #3473
Skane
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Well...that sucks.
I am imagining Liara's ghost making a rage-face now.

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Old 2012-09-19, 12:08   Link #3474
FlareKnight
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I still can't believe how badly they messed up that ending. Can't believe it seemed like a good idea to make Shepard's journey seem pointless. In the end all you can do is what the Reapers allow you to do. Sad that until that DLC you couldn't even say "let the chips fall where they may."

Don't think it was all about getting a happy ending, though I don't think it would have hurt to have a way to get there . Though still think one of the more disappointing points was seeing how little your recruitment mattered. Would have been nice to see all the forces coming into play

In terms of whatever is next for Mass Effect I'd assume a more prevalent multiplayer mode. They've probably seen the money flowing in from the DLC or weapons packs and considering this is EA they should want to milk the series for as much money as possible.
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Old 2012-09-19, 15:05   Link #3475
Flying Dagger
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I dislike the plot (and end) of ME3 because it fails to really capture me. Silly politicians still trying to go about their old grudges when a much greater threat looms over the horizon.

If it is obvious that the galaxy combined would have trouble stopping the reapers, then I can't help but to punch some faces when the game forces me to pick between factions (if not playing as an imported character).

Throughout the game there were a lot of hints towards the idea of "reapers are just a part of a greater cycle". I suspect this would be played out in future extensions of the series?

Reapers are not invincible. Their major weakness imo, would be their slow replenishment rate. I had hoped (before release) that the destruction of the harbinger's vessel would shine new lights onto how to defeat reapers.
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Old 2012-09-19, 20:02   Link #3476
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The Mass Effect team said that "If you choose the Refuse ending, then everyone dies, and the next generation of resistance will simply pick one of the three choices."

In short, no matter what, the Reaper wins.
Reapers want synthesis

I'm pretty sure they don't want the other 2 options
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Old 2012-09-19, 20:06   Link #3477
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
Reapers want synthesis

I'm pretty sure they don't want the other 2 options
Destroy kills all Geth. Not desirable but at least they died achieving what they were created for. Mission Accomplished.

Control gave them Shepard. You know, the person who's corpse they tried to get, who they wanted to revive and incorporate into a Reaper.

Each has different results, but aid the Reapers in one way or another.
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Old 2012-09-19, 20:22   Link #3478
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Destroy kills all Geth. Not desirable but at least they died achieving what they were created for. Mission Accomplished.

Control gave them Shepard. You know, the person who's corpse they tried to get, who they wanted to revive and incorporate into a Reaper.

Each has different results, but aid the Reapers in one way or another.
I know you don't like the endings, but I must say it seems as if you are projecting too much in your interpretations of the endings.

Destroying the geth was never their objective. Their goal is to preserve the remains of a harvested species in Reaper form.

If they are destroyed they have failed their primary objective, and they can not continue the cycle. So in their predetermined conclusion, the next cycle will fall to synthetics without their guidance. Thus, choosing Destroy is organics choosing suicide in their minds. Which I don't think is their intention.

Or are you trying to say they are playing the villain like Zero in Code Geass? In other words, they are becoming something so atrocious as to set an example and warning for future generations about the dangers of synthetics? Hmm.. that does put the Reapers in a heroic light.. twisted.. but interesting.

Control has them Shepard as their leader, and everything suggest that Shepard is in control for now. If you're going to say that Shepard is going to reach the same conclusion as them after several aeons then well.. that's tragic, but I think that also makes an interesting story.
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Old 2012-09-19, 21:05   Link #3479
Destined_Fate
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Destroy is the only choice they would hate but they decide to give Shepard that option anyway because they're either really dumb, they have faith Shepard will use their logic, or something isn't right. Synthesis is perfect and their end goal while Control is okay since Shepard "Does" die and lives on through a Shepard AI Reaper whose ending shows that he/she is going to do whatever it takes to uphold its order. Which will obviously lead to war against organics rebelling against Dictator Shepard who is forced to wipe them out.
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Old 2012-09-20, 00:26   Link #3480
Keroko
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I actually hope that the next Mass Effect game will be less about some ancient galactic enemy, and more about chasing down the problems of the current galaxy. Smaller scale plots, so to speak, and expand more on what's already there.

Three games with Garrus, and we never visited Palaven. We visited Thessia and Sur'Kesh, but never got to explore it. I'd like more of the space-cop we tended to do in-between the whole reaper thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The Mass Effect team said that "If you choose the Refuse ending, then everyone dies, and the next generation of resistance will simply pick one of the three choices."

In short, no matter what, the Reaper wins.
Got a source on that one?
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