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Old 2012-09-19, 18:25   Link #61
SuperRareTreeCat
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Originally Posted by b1gdawg View Post
There was no reason to lie -_-
Yes there was a reason to tell the truth, there are a billion people reading this stuff.

And honestly I've been second guessing Naruto after they revealed Tobi. Usually i can't wait till Wednesday so i can read the chapter. Now, I read it and get disappointed at how stupid the story is getting. The Kabuto flash backs were nothing short of pointless, and now these flashbacks are gonna take 1-2 months to get through. Obito shouldn't have been Tobi. Woulda been more satisfied if it was someone we never seen before or just never unmask him. Now the next 2 months of the Manga are gonna make me stop reading, when i'd much rather watch the fights and see how they would interact. Show the flashback when some one is dying or about to lose the fight, not when tons of fans are disappointed after the 3 year build up to the unmasking of Tobi.
I dont see your problem but ive always been excited for manga chapters and never been let down. You just have your expectations way to high, and as for the reveal of Tobi; probably didn't follow your "theory" now did it? And how were the Kabuto flashbacks pointless? We got to see one of the powerful antagonists back stories as to how he became who he was. We're also gonna see Obito's backstory with Madara and probably Madara's (what we haven't seen/heard), something called character development. How could that bore you? If Naruto is disappointing you so much then stop complaining about it and just don't read it or watch it. Simple.
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Old 2012-09-19, 19:08   Link #62
~Yami~
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wow! I'm glad to see Obito is so similar with Naruto... hahaha

so it's only a pure coincidence between Madara-Obito's encounter...
hopefully this back story won't be very long
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Old 2012-09-19, 19:10   Link #63
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear View Post
The real problem is the timeline. I'm thinking back to Chapter 560 where Edo-Madara stated that he awakened the Rinnegan shortly before his death. Now, I don't know if this is a mistranslation or if there is some hyperbole in these words, but Madara encountered Obito in the cave perhaps more than 10 years after Nagato already received the Rinnegan. Consequently, these last two chapters seem to contradict Chapter 560. And even though Madara is long-lived, I still wouldn't consider a decade to be a short period of time. A lot can be accomplished in a decade.
i think we can chalk it up to hyperbole in that madara thinks his life sucks so much at this point in the flashback that he is in 'hell' as he puts it. and therefore, he is metaphorically dead. he got old, achieved rinnegan, gave it to nagato for not completely known reasons, and then hunkered down in this cave all by himself sustaining life intravenously unable to leave until someone like obito happened along. that kind of life to madara is as good as dead as he puts it himself.

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Originally Posted by mystogan View Post
i don't understand why is Obito so much messed up over protecting Rin, she is a ninja herself!!, a chunin at that, and we have already seen very powerful ninjas at genin level, Obito is making it sound as if it's his biggest aim in life, "just to be Rin's bodyguard", and he is pulling kakashi into forever just protecting someone nonsense, it makes me even sick
his feelings aren't ninja-related. he is in love which is an illogical bundle of emotions for someone. it's not that he wants to protect her like he does some random other konoha ninja, he wants to be there for her if and when she needs because he loves her. to a lesser extent, he feels the same about kakashi, because since they had their truce in KG, kakashi is probably his best friend who obito would also die for (and did almost die for)

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Originally Posted by Shining Celebi View Post
Probably because flashbacks in general, as a rule, are bad writing and should be avoided.
this is not a 'rule'. flashbacks can be amazing, well timed and good writing. you are merely stating an opinion, which is valid, but still just an opinion. i, for one, like this and most other flashbacks in naruto and have no problem with the pacing. we just saw a ton of crazy fights and we need some context for what is about to happen next. did you really think we would find out tobi's identity and then not have a flashback to explain it?
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Old 2012-09-19, 19:12   Link #64
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Originally Posted by SuperRareTreeCat View Post
I dont see your problem but ive always been excited for manga chapters and never been let down. You just have your expectations way to high, and as for the reveal of Tobi; probably didn't follow your "theory" now did it? And how were the Kabuto flashbacks pointless? We got to see one of the powerful antagonists back stories as to how he became who he was. We're also gonna see Obito's backstory with Madara and probably Madara's (what we haven't seen/heard), something called character development. How could that bore you? If Naruto is disappointing you so much then stop complaining about it and just don't read it or watch it. Simple.
Probably because flashbacks in general, as a rule, are bad writing and should be avoided.

That's not to say good stories don't have flashbacks or that all flashbacks are bad.

It's just, especially the way it's used in Naruto, it's incredibly lazy writing and kills the pacing.
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Old 2012-09-19, 20:06   Link #65
willx
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I can't help but sympathize with Obito.. The new few chapters will probably be a giant mindf*ck for him and we'll watch his relentless spirit get utterly crushed and jaded..

And it's shocking how much more powerful than Kakkashi he becomes.. Damn you Uchiha clan and your h4x
Apparently someone didn't like me calling the Uchiha clan h4x.. And neg rep'd me for it.. Seems like they didnt get my point.. Sure, Naruto is also h4x, I agree..

But my point was Obito was the same age/generation as Kakkashi with one of the same eyes now.. But has surpassed the "genius" copy ninja by such a huge margin. I don't hate the Uchiha clan at all.. Just surprised how weak Kakkashi is shown to be now vs. his own "peer"
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Old 2012-09-19, 20:06   Link #66
iBeast
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So this reaper guy is Madara?

When did Madara give up his eyes? Or is this Izuna?
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Old 2012-09-19, 20:22   Link #67
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I'm still confused as to why Madara was holding a scythe in this chapter. Has he used such a weapon in the past?
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Old 2012-09-19, 20:55   Link #68
Destined_Fate
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I don't recall, most likely it's there for the Shinigami joke or... It'll be weapon he always had, but was never seen using, and will be explained later or not. Makes a good cane though.
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Old 2012-09-19, 20:59   Link #69
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Madara is shown using a scythe against Hashirama in Tobi's flashback of the VoTE battle. It might have originally been attached to the gunbai war fan by a chain.
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Old 2012-09-19, 21:04   Link #70
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Originally Posted by iBeast View Post
When did Madara give up his eyes?
My guess is Madara gave his fully-awakened eyes to Nagato, hence how Nagato had the Rinnegan and how Madara knew about him and his abilities. At least that seems to be where Kishimoto is going with this.
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Old 2012-09-19, 22:36   Link #71
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Still a pretty large leap of faith though. I know Madara is supposed to be a badass and amazing but even that's kinda out there.
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Old 2012-09-19, 22:39   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Still a pretty large leap of faith though. I know Madara is supposed to be a badass and amazing but even that's kinda out there.
Nothing else makes much sense at the moment, really. And it wouldn't be the first time something highly unbelievable happened. Like Madara living as long as he did...
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Old 2012-09-19, 22:42   Link #73
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Well he explained he's alive because of that tree thing and the cords in his back... But he's sorta trapped there. Guess that's his punishment, too bad Madara has had a lot of time to think.
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Old 2012-09-19, 22:43   Link #74
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Originally Posted by Shining Celebi View Post
Probably because flashbacks in general, as a rule, are bad writing and should be avoided.

That's not to say good stories don't have flashbacks or that all flashbacks are bad.

It's just, especially the way it's used in Naruto, it's incredibly lazy writing and kills the pacing.
This seems kind of a moot point to me, I don't understand how it could be bad writing if the writer is or was developing characters and ideas as the story advanced (as in the case with Madara and Danzo). Flashbacks occur in almost every media outlet I can think of; manga, anime, American cartoons and live-action TV, I fail to see how it's bad writing when the flashback itself is revealing critical information about a character or plot element at a crucial time.

For example; in the series Angel and Buffy most of Angels's - dare I say 'all' of his back story was revealed in the form of flashbacks (his meeting with Darla, then Drusilla, then with Spike and finally his arrival in present Sunnydale), which if it weren't for the informative flash back all we would have been given was a last minute very random and very large "info dump" with the intention of making us feel sympathy for the ineffectual villain.

Personally I'd rather see a flash back and be able to physically see what happened to make these characters turn out the way they did rather than get a lengthy last-minute info dump and be expected to sympathize with a murderous madman when all I got out of it was, "his life sucks, he had a mean dad, and his girlfriend broke up with him just before she died...please feel bad for him" - I'd much rather see how it got to that point.
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Old 2012-09-19, 22:54   Link #75
mystogan
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post

his feelings aren't ninja-related. he is in love which is an illogical bundle of emotions for someone. it's not that he wants to protect her like he does some random other konoha ninja, he wants to be there for her if and when she needs because he loves her. to a lesser extent, he feels the same about kakashi, because since they had their truce in KG, kakashi is probably his best friend who obito would also die for (and did almost die for)
he should just spit out that he has to go back to leaf because there is someone he loves and kakashi is his friend/rival ,and someone with whom he has to settle scores, his friends are there outside to whom he has to go, but no instead he says all that crap
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Old 2012-09-19, 23:15   Link #76
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Nothing else makes much sense at the moment, really. And it wouldn't be the first time something highly unbelievable happened. Like Madara living as long as he did...
Or water guy conveniently finding a scroll that could change the war and let Sasuke and them rule the world. Which just so happened to be left behind by Kabuto. Which was conveniently in the only base Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum found. Which was conveniently in the only wall Juugo happened to break after the both of them did their lame Laurel and Hardy routine.

We forget this manga is for 12 year old Japanese boys. Oh, and Hashirama DNA can do anything.
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Old 2012-09-19, 23:33   Link #77
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you would figure a scroll of that importance oro would keep on his actual body all the time. But maybe he didnt see a reason to keep it as it felt useless to him? it seemed that way when sasuke brough it up to him that he was...eh what you want that for?
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Old 2012-09-20, 00:23   Link #78
Kuroi Hadou
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
We forget this manga is for 12 year old Japanese boys.
This, pretty much.

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Oh, and Hashirama DNA can do anything.
And the Sharingan, and the Rinnegan, and Minato, and the Kyuubi's chakra, and...
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Old 2012-09-20, 00:40   Link #79
milan kyuubi
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…And none of this was stated to have actually happen this chapter. You just created your own set of events and are complaining about the outcome. Even if any of this actually happened, it still wouldn’t be a plothole since there are still possible explanations for certain events, not to mention the backstory isn’t even finished unfolding.


Madara said in this chapter he left his eyes to someone else.
Obito told us that Madara gave them to Nagato.
Madara in previous chapter asked why Nagato didn't resurrect him.
Nagato had no idea he was supposed to revive Madara, since he believed Obito/Tobi is Madara.

What does this tell you? That Madara left his eyes to Nagato, and then expected for him to bring him back. With Nagato not having any previous knowledge of this.

As I said before Nagato could have easily ended up dead. Rinnegan can't help you when you are starving to death. And seeing how Kishi wrote Minato's sacrifice. I don't expect more information's. But to simple believe Madara did it just because. Just as Minato did it.
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Old 2012-09-20, 00:53   Link #80
Hunter
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I'm still confused as to why Madara was holding a scythe in this chapter. Has he used such a weapon in the past?
Yes, we've seen it twice already, it was linked to the chain of his war fan in the past.
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Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Like Madara living as long as he did...
Which isn't even that long all things considered, the whole thing about Madara's so called incredible lifetime is completely blown out of proportion for no reason. The Ninja village system isn't very old to begin with. Madara is at best two decades older than Oonoki and probably less than that and no one is amazed by Ooniki's age 17 years later.
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