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Old 2012-09-20, 15:52   Link #41
Vicious108
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Seriously, that's it? That's the only addition they came up with the 2nd season BD?
According to the reports of people with the BDs, it's that, some new Kirei dialogue in episode 17 and some new Waver dialogue in episode 20. So yeah, the additions seem pretty short compared to what Season 1 got.

Which makes no sense, because S1 basically had no major skips like S2 did.
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Old 2012-09-20, 15:57   Link #42
FlavoryFantasy
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So if that's the excuse for the flashbacks of Gil & Enkidu + Saber & Lancelot...

What's their excuse if there's no Gil vs Grail scene?
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Old 2012-09-20, 16:00   Link #43
Reckoner
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Wow this is really disappointing. That reasoning just doesn't work whatsoever. It was more jarring to leave the scene as is than to switch point of views, even if just a little.
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Old 2012-09-20, 16:01   Link #44
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
According to the reports of people with the BDs, it's that, some new Kirei dialogue in episode 17 and some new Waver dialogue in episode 20. So yeah, the additions seem pretty short compared to what Season 1 got.

Which makes no sense, because S1 basically had no major skips like S2 did.
Seriously?
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Old 2012-09-20, 16:05   Link #45
mAc Chaos
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lol and it costs so much money
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Old 2012-09-20, 16:39   Link #46
Vicious108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavoryFantasy View Post
So if that's the excuse for the flashbacks of Gil & Enkidu + Saber & Lancelot...

What's their excuse if there's no Gil vs Grail scene?
They don't offer one. Same for the lack of Kirei's flashback during his father's death, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Wow this is really disappointing. That reasoning just doesn't work whatsoever. It was more jarring to leave the scene as is than to switch point of views, even if just a little.
Exactly. Their choices were:

1) Include the flashback and have the tension supposedly evaporate a little.

2) Not include the flashback at all and make the entire fight and Berserker's character basically meaningless and ruin all of the scenes' emotional weight and visceral impact.

And they actually chose the latter.

Not to mention not including the flashback doesn't excuse the piss poor manner in which Lancelot's dying moments were adapted.

Spoiler for Novel:


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Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Seriously?
Trust me, I wish I was trolling, but it's what I've read everywhere (and I've spent the last two days doing almost nothing but searching the entirety of the interwebs for details on the BD additions).
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Old 2012-09-20, 16:43   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Apparently this is from the Animation Material Translation Booklet, by Gen Urobuchi himself:

Spoiler:


Which to me just sounds like a bunch of BS excuses ufotable paid him to write in order to calm down the raging fans.
It sounds like good reasoning to me honestly. Ultimately, they wanted to use what would work in the episode as opposed to just animating the scenes without any care to how they fit in the overall flow of the episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavoryFantasy View Post
So if that's the excuse for the flashbacks of Gil & Enkidu + Saber & Lancelot...

What's their excuse if there's no Gil vs Grail scene?
How exactly would anyone animate that? Have Gilgamesh talk to himself while walking out of the mud? Give the scene an omnipresent narrator? Have the grail speak?

That was one scene that couldn't be translated into a visual medium without leaving a lot of people confused as to what is going on.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Wow this is really disappointing. That reasoning just doesn't work whatsoever. It was more jarring to leave the scene as is than to switch point of views, even if just a little.
Assuming you are talking about the Saber/Berserker fight, I didn't see it as being jarring at all, rather it gave the feeling of being lacking, until we seen the final episode and saw that they simply moved Lancelot's speech to cap off Saber's final moments before re-contracting with the world.
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Old 2012-09-20, 17:08   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
It sounds like good reasoning to me honestly. Ultimately, they wanted to use what would work in the episode as opposed to just animating the scenes without any care to how they fit in the overall flow of the episode.
Agreed. I am happy we can find out the reasoning behind it. And if they did try and squeeze it in, people would have complained that it didn't fit or something. Simply put, going from a novel to a TV series is not an easy thing to do.

Can't wait for my copy to arrive.
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Old 2012-09-20, 17:33   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
It sounds like good reasoning to me honestly. Ultimately, they wanted to use what would work in the episode as opposed to just animating the scenes without any care to how they fit in the overall flow of the episode.
Or they were unable to include those parts for reasons like time constraints, poor planning and terrible priorities (Rin episode, etc) and then asked Gen to cover for them with some made-up justification in order to appease the disappointed fanbase. You're free to believe otherwise of course but that's way more likely to have been the case in my view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
How exactly would anyone animate that? Have Gilgamesh talk to himself while walking out of the mud? Give the scene an omnipresent narrator? Have the grail speak?

That was one scene that couldn't be translated into a visual medium without leaving a lot of people confused as to what is going on.
Uh, Fate/Stay Night is a Visual Novel and it had a bunch of scenes with Shirou inside the Grail/mud. As did its anime adaptation. There's plenty of ways they've could done it here, like having Gilgamesh surrounded by darkness while being asked questions in written text (plenty of anime do it) and responding to them as he does in the novel. Hell, in the Sound Drama they even gave the Grail a voice, so it's not like that's a problem.

And I don't think "leaving people confused as to what is going on" was really a major concern for them, given, you know, how they did the Arthur vs Lancelot fight. Or the way they dealt with Angra Mainyu in general, removing almost all of the foreshadowing for it and then throwing it at the viewers' faces all of a sudden near the end.

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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Assuming you are talking about the Saber/Berserker fight, I didn't see it as being jarring at all, rather it gave the feeling of being lacking, until we seen the final episode and saw that they simply moved Lancelot's speech to cap off Saber's final moments before re-contracting with the world.
Except Lancelot's brief speech in episode 25 did not do justice to the novel's story in the slightest. It was an extremely condensed version of the entire story behind the fight, summarizing a five page long flashback in one sentence and then rushing through his actual last words in the novel (skipping the most emotionally charged portions, as I explained in my previous post). Plus the fact that the explanation for Lancelot's actions and feelings came after the actual events ruined any possible visceral impact the fight and his death might have had. And the explanation was so half-assed anyway that even on a re-watch I still wouldn't feel anything for the characters involved unless I'd read the novel.

Seriously, go listen to the Sound Drama version of Lancelot's death if you want to see the difference and how much of it the anime crapped all over.

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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
And if they did try and squeeze it in, people would have complained that it didn't fit or something.
...How do you know that? Do you have access to some kind of parallel universe where they did include those parts to know what people's reactions to it would have been? Stop talking out of your ass, please.
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Old 2012-09-20, 17:35   Link #50
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I'd rather they try to squeeze it in, at least it has the CHANCE of not ruining the scene. The scene is already pre-ruined from the TV version. It's not like it's perfect already and they risk ruining it with the BD changes.
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Old 2012-09-20, 17:38   Link #51
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I think they could have at least added those scenes as extras on the disk. They knew the fans wanted to see them and if they added them as extra's they could even have added an option where those scenes would be inserted at the appropriate places. This would give the fans the option of watching it as the director intended or as the light novel was.
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Old 2012-09-20, 18:04   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
It sounds like good reasoning to me honestly. Ultimately, they wanted to use what would work in the episode as opposed to just animating the scenes without any care to how they fit in the overall flow of the episode.
I agree as well. It was an outstanding adaptation and I can't really ask for more. Some details are lost in adaptation and I came to accept that. Those interested in those scenes now have a motivation to read the novel right?
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Old 2012-09-20, 18:10   Link #53
fertygo
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I don't mind with the Berserker moment tbh, because you don't know their issue with the storyboard or you know.. budget.. there is CD drama if you really want hear the intensity and I think you can kinda guess what happened if you familiar with arthur's lore even with that cut.

Or you can bank to Aniplex want make cash-in on future with making OVA of it lol, there's 3-4 eps that they can make with material that got copped out.

My biggest grudge to the editing is they left out Gil remembering Enkidu and don't explain Sola-ui intentionally fall to Lancer's curse, that just bullshit... its would not more than 20 second to put that and considering depth that those detail give.. Its more pissed me off than bigger meat that they completely left out. At least I'm happy enough finding bigger detail like more sub-plot and monologue like that in the novel.

Just those two decision that still mind-boggling me.
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Old 2012-09-20, 18:14   Link #54
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As a reader of the LN, I have to agree with the reasons why the animation staff decided to do what they did.
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Old 2012-09-20, 18:27   Link #55
fertygo
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Originally Posted by Izayoi View Post
I agree as well. It was an outstanding adaptation and I can't really ask for more. Some details are lost in adaptation and I came to accept that. Those interested in those scenes now have a motivation to read the novel right?
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Originally Posted by biodude711 View Post
As a reader of the LN, I have to agree with the reasons why the animation staff decided to do what they did.
I hope you two not just being apologist

But I'm agree the adaptation is great and we should still grateful only whining for few thing and not the WHOLE thing like the previous adaptation.

Maybe if we're lucky we can get more "fix" in whatever shape on the future for the bit that annoying us.
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Old 2012-09-20, 19:42   Link #56
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Originally Posted by biodude711 View Post
As a reader of the LN, I have to agree with the reasons why the animation staff decided to do what they did.
As disappointed I am about the lack of Enkidu, I kind of get why he was omitted there. I have an image song anyway, so that's fine.

But the Lancelot battle is still so... horrible done and choppy. This is my biggest problem. I'm going to reserve my judgment about Kirei until I see the added dialogue.

All the Angra Mainyu stuff is confusing in general to be successfully translated...I wanted to see the scene, but I don't know how they would have pulled it off.

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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Which to me just sounds like a bunch of BS excuses ufotable paid him to write in order to calm down the raging fans.
Doubtful. He was the one behind all the changes since the first season. From what I can remember, the changes Ufotable wished to make was to add more Servant content (backstory) but they were out of time (they had thought about dedicating an episode for every Servant). They really should have made the series longer...

On the other hand, this could open the way to OVAs in the future (after they are done with KnK and the FSN openings). Specially for popular Servants like Gilgamesh, Saber and Rider (the three of them feature in their credit card). Fate/Zero: Three Kings or something like that, written by Urobuchi could have potential to be sold more than Kiritsugu stuff. I'm hopeful that ufotable would try to milk them in the near future.

Edit: Wait no, they didn't dedicate episode 9 exclusively to Lancer because if they did that, they would have to do the same for every Servant. But they considered it.
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Last edited by Thess; 2012-09-21 at 02:45.
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Old 2012-09-22, 11:05   Link #57
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Bahh.. my copy still isn't here! >.<

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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
...How do you know that? Do you have access to some kind of parallel universe where they did include those parts to know what people's reactions to it would have been? Stop talking out of your ass, please.
I'm not talking out of my ass. People will always complain. People will always find faults. It is impossible to please every single person because everyone is different. They have different views, different opinions and different tastes. People also don't look at things from multiple angles, as demonstrated by your post.
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Old 2012-09-22, 12:00   Link #58
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Honestly, the only change I was really hoping for was expanding Zouken and Kirei's dialogue so people didn't think Lancer was the reason the Grail went all evil.
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Old 2012-09-22, 12:54   Link #59
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Yeah, I don't get how Gil talking to the grail would have been that difficult to write ( and that was my second favorite scene in Fate/Zero only behind Rider's final charge and the only thing I really wanted in the BDs) I always envisioned it in my head as something like that scene at the end of FMA Brotherhood where Kimblee confronts Pride.
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Old 2012-09-22, 16:19   Link #60
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Bahh.. my copy still isn't here! >.<

I'm not talking out of my ass. People will always complain. People will always find faults. It is impossible to please every single person because everyone is different. They have different views, different opinions and different tastes. People also don't look at things from multiple angles, as demonstrated by your post.
Positive reactions in general.

My box isn't here yet. It won't be here until next week or so.
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