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Old 2012-09-21, 12:50   Link #2341
miketyson
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You know I went back and you're exactly right. The confusing thing is the paint jobs and the two flashbacks in close proximity, because during the flashback to how Eureka and the Gekko got pulled over it's a 2-seat model but then in the Okinawa flashback it's the 1-seat model, but painted the same both times.

Thanks for clearing it up.
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:52   Link #2342
Trajan
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Being at the site of two Scub Bursts is probably a major amount of trapar exposure. There's also no reason why she couldn't have moved to near one of the numerous coral plants, since in 2020 they knew how to stop Scub Bursts.
Elena was actually only present for one Scub Burst, as Eureka took her out of 1981 before that first one happened. I also don't agree that being near Scub Burst = exposure to massive amounts of trapar. But accepting your theory, Ivica should be able to pilot an IFO since he was right on top of the largest Scub Burst in history and has spent a great deal of time around Scub Coral.

My larger issue with the reveal that Elena is a child of the '80s is that it doesn't work with what's come before it. There were lots of little hints throughout the series that Elena was from Eureka's future: intimating she could see trapar, Truth treating her differently, etc. Although those might be explained away, the big problem is her hair. Every character in this series AND the original has had normal-colored hair except for: Sakuya, Anemone, Eureka, Ao, and Elena. (I'm assuming Miller's hair was a wig/dyed) Two of these are 100% Coralian, one is 50% Coralian, one is genetically modified to be like a Coralian, and then there's is Elena, who comes from 1981. Okaaaay.

Last edited by Trajan; 2012-09-21 at 14:27. Reason: hair
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Old 2012-09-21, 14:22   Link #2343
ookamigirl
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The coral carriers thing was pretty interesting.
Eureka makes another appearance.
Seems like when she shows up things get even more complicated.
Secrets attacking other secrets, interesting.
Elena vs Ao.
Things are getting slowly out of hand.
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Old 2012-09-21, 15:03   Link #2344
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Elena was actually only present for one Scub Burst, as Eureka took her out of 1981 before that first one happened. I also don't agree that being near Scub Burst = exposure to massive amounts of trapar. But accepting your theory, Ivica should be able to pilot an IFO since he was right on top of the largest Scub Burst in history and has spent a great deal of time around Scub Coral.
Eureka grabbed her because it would have killed her, therefore it must have either been happening or was seconds away from happening. Even so, she was in the aftermath of at least one.

Ivica wasn't near a Scub Burst. Eureka took off with the Quartz and prevented it. He's also an adult whose brain has long since finished developing. Children are susceptible because theirs have not.

As for actual Scub Bursts causing trapar, look at episode 20. The first thing Ao notices after the Quartz explosion is trapar leaking from the door. Being in two such events would expose Elena to a lot of trapar in concentrations likely far higher than normal.

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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
My larger issue with the reveal that Elena is a child of the '80s is that it doesn't work with what's come before it. There were lots of little hints throughout the series that Elena was from Eureka's future: intimating she could see trapar, Truth treating her differently, etc. Although those might be explained away, the big problem is her hair. Every character in this series AND the original has had normal-colored hair except for: Sakuya, Anemone, Eureka, Ao, and Elena. (I'm assuming Miller's hair was a wig/dyed) Two of these are 100% Coralian, one is 50% Coralian, one is genetically modified to be like a Coralian, and then there's is Elena, who comes from 1981. Okaaaay.
She's never said she could see trapar, and the one hint she gives to that effect is rather playful. Truth's treatment of her isn't that unusual. Gazelle held Truth at gunpoint and Truth didn't retaliate. As for her hair, that's the only unusual thing, and not so much that she must be from another world.
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Old 2012-09-21, 15:47   Link #2345
Trajan
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Eureka grabbed her because it would have killed her, therefore it must have either been happening or was seconds away from happening. Even so, she was in the aftermath of at least one.
So have presumably thousands and thousands of children throughout history. Under your theory, there are thousands of adults with altered brain chemistry that are able to pilot IFOs that exist in Ao's world.

So why are they using child pilots? The original answer the series gave was that the permanent presence of Scub Coral led to areas with continuing high levels of trapar as young children developed. Since this only occurred 10 years ago, there are no IFO pilots over the age of 16 or so. Your suggestion that all it takes is exposure to a Scub Burst that annihilates Scub Coral undermines this whole explanation.

Quote:
Ivica wasn't near a Scub Burst. Eureka took off with the Quartz and prevented it.
Tanaka explicitly states in Episode 18 that Okinawa was the "largest Scub Burst in history."

Quote:
He's also an adult whose brain has long since finished developing. Children are susceptible because theirs have not.
This is untrue. Brain plasticity continues throughout adulthood, though not in the same rate as childhood. It would make more sense if only those fetuses in utero at the time of the Scub Burst were effected, since regionalization and neural migration occurs then. But taking your point that Ivica is an adult, well, from a brain development standpoint, a 10 year old girl (Elena) is pretty far along the brain development curve herself, so effects on her should be fairly minimal.


Quote:
As for actual Scub Bursts causing trapar, look at episode 20. The first thing Ao notices after the Quartz explosion is trapar leaking from the door. Being in two such events would expose Elena to a lot of trapar in concentrations likely far higher than normal.
Except of course, there was no Scub Coral in that explosion at Gen Blue. It was purely quartz and secret. No trapar should have been generated since trapar occurs as a metabolic byproduct of Scub Coral.

Quote:
As for her hair, that's the only unusual thing, and not so much that she must be from another world.
Every other character spanning 71 episodes of Eureka Seven and AO that has had pastel-colored hair is in some way/fashion a Coralian. It's damned unusual and it means a great deal that Elena has pastel hair, or at least it should.
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Old 2012-09-21, 15:51   Link #2346
DangerMouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
As for her hair, that's the only unusual thing, and not so much that she must be from another world.
I dunno on the hair color thing yet, while it doesn't mean she has to be from Eureka's time it's still unusual enough that I'd be surprised if there's not more meaning behind it (especially since we're to assume so far that it's not dyed) as to who her actual parents are (and maybe there still will be, I haven't seen this ep yet but just because we potentially know "when" she might have came from doesn't mean we know "who" she came from yet, unless it was told in ep 21 as well which it doesn't seem like).

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-09-21 at 16:58.
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Old 2012-09-21, 16:16   Link #2347
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
So have presumably thousands and thousands of children throughout history. Under your theory, there are thousands of adults with altered brain chemistry that are able to pilot IFOs that exist in Ao's world.
Thousands and thousands of children with no opportunity to be pilots, and brain abnormalities would only be observed with modern technology. Moreover, even assuming there are adults out there that could be great pilots, they have lives already and little incentive to take another job.

Plus, given the reports of missing children, it's fairly safe to assume that most in close enough proximity to need rescuing like Elena don't survive the event. At the time, Scub Coral appearing was shorthand for "run like hell". Anyone close enough to be caught in the explosion likely wouldn't survive, and the trapar would have dissipated by the time people came back.

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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
So why are they using child pilots? The original answer the series gave was that the permanent presence of Scub Coral led to areas with continuing high levels of trapar as young children developed. Since this only occurred 10 years ago, there are no IFO pilots over the age of 16 or so. Your suggestion that all it takes is exposure to a Scub Burst that annihilates Scub Coral undermines this whole explanation.
There weren't any IFOs up until 10 years ago, and if we take Generation Bleu's current roster into account, then there weren't even any IFO teams for at least another five after that. By the time such statistics are being tracked, they'd be most evident in children who would be immediately affected.

See also the above point. It's only with the ability to stop Scub Bursts and thus creating areas with persistent concentrations of trapar that these abnormalities begin to occur. So you have a case where Elena not only gets one or two major doses of trapar exposure, but ends up in a time where trapar levels are much higher than her own timeline.

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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Tanaka explicitly states in Episode 18 that Okinawa was the "largest Scub Burst in history."
And the series has a bad habit of misusing that term. They often use it interchangeably with "Scub appearing". The Okinawan Scub Coral is the largest one to appear. The devastation of a Scub Burst (which would have wiped out Okinawa) did not happen (though it was certainly cost numerous lives regardless).

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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
This is untrue. Brain plasticity continues throughout adulthood, though not in the same rate as childhood. It would make more sense if only those fetuses in utero at the time of the Scub Burst were effected, since regionalization and neural migration occurs then. But taking your point that Ivica is an adult, well, from a brain development standpoint, a 10 year old girl (Elena) is pretty far along the brain development curve herself, so effects on her should be fairly minimal.
She wasn't ten when Eureka grabbed her. I'd guess closer to eight, nine at the most. Either way, she'd still be more susceptible than Ivica.

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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Except of course, there was no Scub Coral in that explosion at Gen Blue. It was purely quartz and secret. No trapar should have been generated since trapar occurs as a metabolic byproduct of Scub Coral.
Yet it is there. This isn't something I'm just making up. It's a fact in the episode that Ao comments on. Also, there is Scub down there. That's what TheEnd is embedded in.

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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Every other character spanning 71 episodes of Eureka Seven and AO that has had pastel-colored hair is in some way/fashion a Coralian. It's damned unusual and it means a great deal that Elena has pastel hair, or at least it should.
Anemone is human and had that hair color before her transformation if we take the flashback at the Great Wall as true.
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Old 2012-09-21, 16:24   Link #2348
miketyson
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Well to be fair, with Elena's issues she seems like someone who'd seek out IFO training if she could, whereas many wouldn't, b/c it's hard and dangerous work.
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Old 2012-09-21, 17:04   Link #2349
DangerMouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Also, there is Scub down there. That's what TheEnd is embedded in.

Anemone is human and had that hair color before her transformation if we take the flashback at the Great Wall as true.
This. That is definitely a Quartz-removed Scub Coral under Gen Bleu that TheEnd is embedded in.

Oh really? I mean I know she started full human before becoming a test subject artificial Coralian. If that's the case I totally forgot that, I remember she still had the pink hair as a child but it's been so long since I've seen the series that I was thinking that that was because she'd already been experimented on. Her hair color still sounds like something that was intended as a link to her parents given the extreme rarity of non-naturally colored let alone pink hair in this universe.

Spoiler:

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-09-22 at 04:43.
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Old 2012-09-21, 19:25   Link #2350
MasterVampire
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Are we ever going to see Renton?

I assume thats him in the opening credits with his back to us but come on there is only like 3episodes left!!
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Old 2012-09-21, 19:55   Link #2351
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by MasterVampire View Post
Are we ever going to see Renton?

I assume thats him in the opening credits with his back to us but come on there is only like 3episodes left!!
Last episode: "Hi son!" *kills Truth*

And snarky responses in 3...2...1...
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Old 2012-09-21, 21:36   Link #2352
Graveyard Duck
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Every other character spanning 71 episodes of Eureka Seven and AO that has had pastel-colored hair is in some way/fashion a Coralian. It's damned unusual and it means a great deal that Elena has pastel hair, or at least it should.
Why should we attach any importance to unnatural hair colors when E7 has already shown to us quite clearly that the only outward physical distinction that always exists between human and Coralian is the colored strip in the eye?
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Old 2012-09-21, 22:01   Link #2353
Justin_Brett
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The only Coralian I can think of who had only that as an identifier was the old guy on the Gekko, and he was meant to be a surprise.
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Old 2012-09-21, 22:37   Link #2354
Graveyard Duck
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
The only Coralian I can think of who had only that as an identifier was the old guy on the Gekko, and he was meant to be a surprise.
Perhaps I can state this statistic in another way:
33% of full blood Coralians had hair colors.
25% of Coralians had natural hair colors.
25% of Coralians and artificial Coralians had natural hair colors.

Suddenly, we see quite a different picture than "the only Coralian I can think of," don't you think?
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Old 2012-09-21, 22:50   Link #2355
Raincollie
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I just realised something. Remember in episodes 2 and 3 how we learned that Eureka has dyed her hair black, and only afterwards somehow got trapped between timelines? What happened to her black hair?
I personally thought it was hot.

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The only Coralian I can think of who had only that as an identifier was the old guy on the Gekko, and he was meant to be a surprise.
Gonzy is something I've been wondering about for a long time, and I guess this is an opportunity to share my thoughts:
Of course, at episode 50 we learn that he was actually a Coralian, watching everybody all along, and we can clearly see his Coralian eyes.
Never throughout the series have we seen him with his eyes open, save for episodes 49 and 50.
In episode 49, as Renton shares with the crew what he's learned from Diane (before Holland goes Kamikaze on the Orange), we can clearly see Gonzy sitting on his cooly-wooly rug, smoking, with white, normal, human eyes. If somebody doesn't know what I'm talking about, or simply doesn't recall that, I can provide pictures for comparison.
Am I just missing anything, or is it my general stupidity plunging off again?
I apologize in advance if this is too off-topic and doesn't fit in this thread.


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Originally Posted by Graveyard Duck View Post
Perhaps I can state this statistic in another way:
33% of full blood Coralians had hair colors.
25% of Coralians had natural hair colors.
25% of Coralians and artificial Coralians had natural hair colors.

Suddenly, we see quite a different picture than "the only Coralian I can think of," don't you think?
Gonzy had white hair of old age, which is natural for humans. What if it's natural in the very same manner for Coralians? I.E. 80 year-old Eureka with white hair?
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Old 2012-09-21, 22:53   Link #2356
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
The only Coralian I can think of who had only that as an identifier was the old guy on the Gekko, and he was meant to be a surprise.
And to go along with his old man look he's also rather white-haired by the time of E7 isn't he, we can't be sure if he started white since other Coralians don't or if it's like with humans though I guess we don't know for sure if they white either since we never saw him young, so I don't know if we have enough information to know if he started with white hair or not.

Edit: Beaten bad and more thoroughly

Like Raincollie, I basically thought he had the white hair of old age, however long that takes for a Coralian, like humans do given all of the similarities, despite the differences, developed in the story.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-09-21 at 23:26.
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Old 2012-09-21, 22:55   Link #2357
orpheus2
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So Elena is just a kid from the past propelled into the future. I guess she was delusional when she saw Eureka's world.

Ah, it's not Renton. He's just a fighter pilot. When will Renton appear then? Maybe he will appear to save the day in the last minute.

Truth appeared again. Shoot him already, Ao.
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Old 2012-09-21, 23:15   Link #2358
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by Raincollie View Post
I just realised something. Remember in episodes 2 and 3 how we learned that Eureka has dyed her hair black, and only afterwards somehow got trapped between timelines? What happened to her black hair?
I personally thought it was hot.
Washed it out. We don't know when she dyed it. And she did not have it in that flashback where Ao looks at her from a distance.

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Originally Posted by Raincollie View Post
Gonzy is something I've been wondering about for a long time, and I guess this is an opportunity to share my thoughts:
Of course, at episode 50 we learn that he was actually a Coralian, watching everybody all along, and we can clearly see his Coralian eyes.
Never throughout the series have we seen him with his eyes open, save for episodes 49 and 50.
In episode 49, as Renton shares with the crew what he's learned from Diane (before Holland goes Kamikaze on the Orange), we can clearly see Gonzy sitting on his cooly-wooly rug, smoking, with white, normal, human eyes. If somebody doesn't know what I'm talking about, or simply doesn't recall that, I can provide pictures for comparison.
Am I just missing anything, or is it my general stupidity plunging off again?
I apologize in advance if this is too off-topic and doesn't fit in this thread.
Just a goof, or he can disguise his eyes.

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Originally Posted by Raincollie View Post
Gonzy had white hair of old age, which is natural for humans. What if it's natural in the very same manner for Coralians? I.E. 80 year-old Eureka with white hair?
Eureka doesn't age, certainly not in any way similar to a human. Gonzy may simply have been designed to look old.
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Old 2012-09-21, 23:23   Link #2359
Raincollie
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Washed it out. We don't know when she dyed it. And she did not have it in that flashback where Ao looks at her from a distance.
We can assume she dyed it about 9 or 10 years prior to the beginning of the series, considering Ao's appearance, being 2 or 3 years old. No arguments on the wash-out part.

On a different note, if Ao's a human-coralian hybrid, shouldn't his aging rate be, at least by a bit, different than any other human's? Or is that just a feature he grabbed from his dad completely?

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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Eureka doesn't age, certainly not in any way similar to a human. Gonzy may simply have been designed to look old.
Don't get me wrong, I just put Eureka as a general example for a Coralian. I agree on the part that he may have just been 'created' with the appearance of an old man, but that's not my point. What I was trying to say is when Coralians (eventually, depending on their aging rate) become old, their hair just might turn white as humans'. Taking Dr. Mischa's note about the biology of Coralians being almost perfectly identical to humans', it's considerable. Not forcing my opinions, though.
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Old 2012-09-21, 23:29   Link #2360
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Gonzy may simply have been designed to look old.
That's certainly a possibility too. I just don't remember thinking much of it due to him being old and the pushing of the similarities between humans and human-form Coralians.

With all this, I'm not sure Gonzy having white hair really is an example that disproves that unnatural hair colors are so far Coralian-related and that they would be possible for a young human (since she's got pink hair as a kid it's now pretty likely she's not dying it which I wouldn't have put passed her earlier). If a human had had white hair as a kid wouldn't that have indicated something strange happened to him or that he had some kind of genetic issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raincollie View Post
On a different note, if Ao's a human-coralian hybrid, shouldn't his aging rate be, at least by a bit, different than any other human's? Or is that just a feature he grabbed from his dad completely
Good question. Shouldn't his aging atleast be slower or something? I totally forgot about this but having that thought for a bit when I saw someone comment that Naru looks older than him though they're both 13.

Last edited by DangerMouse; 2012-09-22 at 00:03.
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