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Old 2012-09-21, 12:52   Link #261
Cosmic Eagle
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The more important question...is the US nuclear umbrella trustworthy?
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Old 2012-09-21, 12:55   Link #262
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Japan had an active Communist party in the 1960s; do they have any successors today?
JCP lives, but, like many of its Western European counterparts, moved away from classic Marxism to social democracy long ago. It certainly wanted no part of Red Army terrorism in the 70's.

And it's not very strong with only like six members in the Diet, though its presence in the municipalities, again like its Western European counterparts, are somewhat stronger.

But yes, the Left, the true Left, is very weak in Japan. I really wouldn't call DPJ a left-wing party, even if a part of its members and supporters are made up of the right wing of the former Japan Socialist Party, the key left-wing opposition party for much of the postwar period (this party's left wing went their own way as the SDP and now have a whopping 10 members in the 480-member lower house Diet).

As for Ishihara and Hashimoto, I find in them nothing to admire but rather that they are a truly sad symbol of how deep the malaise Japanese politics is in, that they would win accolades just by being bullish and jingoistic. It speaks all too little about their personal and political virtues and far more too how deeply inadequate Japan's political class is that such juvenile grand-standing can be viewed as "refreshing."
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:00   Link #263
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
The more important question...is the US nuclear umbrella trustworthy?
Would they be believed to retaliate if they are attacked if one of their ally is nuked ? They will have to retaliate or they will lose support and credibility.
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Old 2012-09-21, 13:08   Link #264
Ithekro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
The more important question...is the US nuclear umbrella trustworthy?
No one has risked it yet.
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Old 2012-09-21, 15:35   Link #265
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
The reason I post here is because I see this generalization a lot in this thread and I can't help but feel sympathy toward a lot of Chinese who doesn't have anything to do with the riot(they're entitled to do a peaceful demo though, just like what some native Chinese does in my country) and can't help but trying to make the point that the Japanese side is not exactly completely guilt free toward this mess.

A little OOT : Maybe for you and me(being an atheist), religion is not something important, but some people take their religion seriously, even above their own family, and you have no right to look down on them because of that. When someone's most important gets ridiculed, people react badly(violence is still the wrong answer though). It's just like a stranger who you just know suddenly made fun of your family/girlfriend in front of you just because in their custom, that's how they show their closeness toward you and that person call you what a boring overreacting guy when you snaps back at them.
Now, that's something more appeasing to read unlike kyp's approach.

Whenever there's something involving rioters, I always expect everyone with judgement to start preparing a counter-movement in the name of some form of common sense. This counter-movement may come from a few politicians, the more moderate parts of the population, or even workers trying to save their jobs when it's a Japanese company hiring them. Still, as long as no one reacts against the rioters, the rest of the population (+ the government) is guilty by association and that is something I have a hard time with (i.e. people sitting there without reacting).

And about the Japanese part, I already stated that Shintaro Ishihara is no more than a buffoon who will end up being another Le Pen or Haider. He may have the voice for the flavor-of-the-month award, but his positions on various subjects will just simply die with him. Still, I would love it if anybody can find something on which he can be brought down towards an early retirement before he creates more damage.

OOT: I was raised with Catholic teachings, but like many people in Canada, I've grown beyond the need to put my religious beliefs above everything else. I've read my share of reading history to see what was good and what was bad when putting religion above all. By doing so, it allowed me to avoid repeating mistakes of Christians who preceded me. And in the era of satellite TV and internet, I think everyone ought to be in touch with more than enough material/information to avoid making major mistakes such as what we have seen recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
As of now, there is probably only one other Japanese politician who attracts as much media attention: Osaka mayor Toru Hashimoto. But that's news ("What Japan needs now is dictatorship") for another thread.
Is he trying to commit political suicide? I doubt he would go really far in climbing the ladder of national politics with something like that. I'm surprised that someone like him who only knew post-war Japan, the power in economics, in his life would go into such a load of outdated ideas (such as owning nuclear weapons and reintroducing conscription when mostly everyone is going the other way worldwide).
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Old 2012-09-21, 15:45   Link #266
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Is he trying to commit political suicide? I doubt he would go really far in climbing the ladder of national politics with something like that. I'm surprised that someone like him who only knew post-war Japan, the power in economics, in his life would go into such a load of outdated ideas (such as owning nuclear weapons and reintroducing conscription when mostly everyone is going the other way worldwide).
With how Japan is going, I actually do support conscription for Japan.
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Old 2012-09-21, 16:12   Link #267
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
With how Japan is going, I actually do support conscription for Japan.
What do you mean about how Japan is going?

Not many countries use such nowadays. Even the Swedes who held compulsory military service for such a long time have dropped it since 2010.
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Old 2012-09-21, 16:35   Link #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
With how Japan is going, I actually do support conscription for Japan.
We don't need another copy of the SAF in Asia; looks good, barely capable against anything, but completely useless against an AOW regardless of scale.
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Old 2012-09-21, 16:41   Link #269
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Now, that's something more appeasing to read unlike kyp's approach.
Can you try harder to make this personal? Also, I fail to see a reason why people need to write stuff to appease you, but I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to use "appealing" instead. Although even there I don't see why it should matter, don't participate in an online forum if you're gonna get your feelings hurt when people disagrees with you and calls you out on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Whenever there's something involving rioters, I always expect everyone with judgement to start preparing a counter-movement in the name of some form of common sense. This counter-movement may come from a few politicians, the more moderate parts of the population, or even workers trying to save their jobs when it's a Japanese company hiring them. Still, as long as no one reacts against the rioters, the rest of the population (+ the government) is guilty by association and that is something I have a hard time with (i.e. people sitting there without reacting).
I'm not sure if you noticed, but PRC isn't exactly a place where open dissent that goes against what the government wants is looked upon very favorably. Put yourself in their shoe, you don't care for the disputes, you don't agree with the riots, but are you gonna stick your neck out and risk landing yourself as a political prisoner for the next couple decades or simply disappear?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
OOT: I was raised with Catholic teachings, but like many people in Canada, I've grown beyond the need to put my religious beliefs above everything else. I've read my share of reading history to see what was good and what was bad when putting religion above all. By doing so, it allowed me to avoid repeating mistakes of Christians who preceded me. And in the era of satellite TV and internet, I think everyone ought to be in touch with more than enough material/information to avoid making major mistakes such as what we have seen recently.
I'm curious, have you had much experience traveling to different parts of the world? Maybe it's just me, but I get the impression that you're looking at things through a very specific western mindset. For starters, this may be the era of satellite TV and internet amongst first world countries, it is hardly the same for the undeveloped/developing nations, especially amongst the large segments of the poor in the population. Forget about TVs and internet, many of them barely has a shack to call home.

You're placing expectations on those people based on your expectation as a citizen in a western nation, but it's neither reasonable nor practical. Counter protest? those things will fly in Canada, but over there you're literally risking your life and the lives of your entire family. Hell, forget about counter-protests, the LACK of actively protesting alone can get you in deep trouble. A Pakistani business owner was charged with blasphemy, punishable by death, because he refused to participate in a protest.

It's a different world out there with different sets of rules, you can't simply force yours on everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
...would go into such a load of outdated ideas (such as owning nuclear weapons and reintroducing conscription when mostly everyone is going the other way worldwide).
Um, it's definitely the other way around. There are plenty of countries that would go nuclear in a heartbeat if they could, and none of the nuclear nations is going go disarm themselves.
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Old 2012-09-21, 16:43   Link #270
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart
We don't need another copy of the SAF in Asia; looks good, barely capable against anything, but completely useless against an AOW regardless of scale.
I think Sumeragi wants to emphasize drilling a sense of civic responsibility into the general populace rather than building a new army to invade China.

Comrades in arms and all that. And who knows, maybe swinging around a big phallic firearms for a year or two will empower The People (rich old fucked up powerful men? Shoot them down like the pigs they are!), and a popular militia can be *cough* corrupted into a proletarian revolution...

Kind of like how you Singaporeans get to build camaraderie by sharing pointless misery with people you'd otherwise just walk past on the streets.

Mind, not being exactly civic-minded, I'd still hate to be conscripted by anyone. Unless the Reapers are invading and we need to build the Alliance ASAP, I'm not answering no call of duty.
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Old 2012-09-21, 17:31   Link #271
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I think Sumeragi wants to emphasize drilling a sense of civic responsibility into the general populace rather than building a new army to invade China.
That would make sense.

The only way I think the Japanese public opinion would accept some form of military conscription would be if they have alternative service among other options, preferably something equivalent to the Swiss Civilian Service.
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Old 2012-09-21, 17:38   Link #272
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
With how Japan is going, I actually do support conscription for Japan.
Sumeragi will wear a military uniform?!

*Not bad...
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Old 2012-09-21, 17:44   Link #273
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Sumeragi will wear a military uniform?!

*Not bad...
Sumeragi isn't japanese, no ?
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Old 2012-09-21, 17:58   Link #274
Sumeragi
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Half-Japanese. Also, I do have several military uniforms.....

That's the origin of my first avatar/signature.
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Old 2012-09-21, 18:11   Link #275
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Sumeragi will wear a military uniform?!

*Not bad...
Sure, why not? I also love uniforms, whether it is related to sports, police or military. I guess we are a few here.
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Old 2012-09-21, 18:13   Link #276
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Half-Japanese. Also, I do have several military uniforms.....

That's the origin of my first avatar/signature.
Pic! Pic! Pic!
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Old 2012-09-21, 18:29   Link #277
Yu Ominae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
That would make sense.

The only way I think the Japanese public opinion would accept some form of military conscription would be if they have alternative service among other options, preferably something equivalent to the Swiss Civilian Service.
Actually, IIRC, I think it was the socialists that wanted to have a Swiss-like system with the SDF replaced with a militia-type force.

And yeah, I'm sure the majority would oppose conscription due to WWII memories...
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Old 2012-09-21, 18:29   Link #278
Terrestrial Dream
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
With how Japan is going, I actually do support conscription for Japan.
I hate the idea of conscription, especially the Korean one, and this is one of the thing I envy about Japan. I don't mind if they give about great benefit like America, but Korean military gives you nothing and waste basically two years of your youth. Yeah they might gain the knowledge of what to do when grenade drops, or the taste of nicotine, but not much useful knowledge. It is also waste of athletic talents, who wastes their prime doing nothing. While Japanese football players are getting bought the European teams, the Korean players have difficulty time getting picked because of eventual military service hanging over their head.
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Old 2012-09-21, 19:26   Link #279
MakubeX2
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
We don't need another copy of the SAF in Asia; looks good, barely capable against anything, but completely useless against an AOW regardless of scale.
Sure, it had never been battle-tested. But I will not diss it. The human physche had been known to push the body to do extraordinary feat under duress, especially when one's back is faced towards the water.

As for conscription in Japan, I'm in favor of seeing the famed samurai ferocity which the Americans faced and feared in Iwo Jima which had indirectly pushed for the use of atomics emerged once more. But it might be hard-pressed given how soft the current generation is.
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Old 2012-09-21, 19:47   Link #280
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
As for conscription in Japan, I'm in favor of seeing the famed samurai ferocity which the Americans faced and feared in Iwo Jima which had indirectly pushed for the use of atomics emerged once more. But it might be hard-pressed given how soft the current generation is.
...guess only a fraction still has the "samurai spirit"

Can't tell until the first bomb explodes and wait for the reaction from the Japanese people...

Last edited by NoemiChan; 2012-09-21 at 20:17.
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