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View Poll Results: Sword Art Online - Episode 12 Rating
10 out of 10 : Near Perfect.... 44 30.14%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 31 21.23%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 19.86%
7 out of 10 : Good... 20 13.70%
6 out of 10 : Average... 11 7.53%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 3 2.05%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 3 2.05%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 3 2.05%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.68%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 1 0.68%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-22, 17:11   Link #61
ak4allz
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you know what.... Reki Kawahara influenced by Shana character design much....

Spoiler for Shana-chan on the move:


... don't you remember how Kuroyukihime's face resemble Shana in most of time? I mean, her hair (obviously), her manner towards Haru (although Sakai Yuuji is not a pig).

haha....
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Old 2012-09-22, 17:18   Link #62
Esebian
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, there could be both. Let's say some sort of update was deployed that modified/bugged/broke the regular interface, or let's say that an administrator somehow got "de-modded" by Cardinal and so lost their regular Admin tools. I guess I can see why you might want some backup plan like: "if you can't use the regular interface through NerveGear, go to this secret spot in the game world and you can gain direct access to the system". There is some logic to it anyway.


That doesn't make any sense at all. When we're talking about accessing the console through NerveGear, we mean through the UI that the players use to execute all the other commands (to access their inventory, equip weapons, toggle the "Ethics Off" option, and so on). This is all in-game.

And by the way: we don't even know what happened to the GM. As explained in this episode, the game is being managed by Cardinal now with no human input. Granted, of course, the game was probably built expecting there to be human involvement still (just like it was built with Yui in it), until Kabaya changed the rules of the game.
Ok, I'm terribly sorry, I should have made my point clearer. What I meant is that now the console itself is installed at the server of SAO, but if it would be in the normal menu it would be installed with the client of SAO in the Nerve Gear, hence it is now more secure as the other way round, asuming it is easier to hack something installed on your hardware then somewhere on some server

EDIT: @ak4allz Yeah, the moment she summoned the sword or to be more precise the kind of summoning totally reminded me of Shana XD
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Old 2012-09-22, 17:25   Link #63
ak4allz
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one more thing... when you're a couple of married player in SAO, you can use this combined sword skill. Pretty useful when it comes to reduce the impact from the monster hit :P

Spoiler for fighting scene:
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Old 2012-09-22, 17:28   Link #64
Divini
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I looked at the end card before watching, and I was thinking how cute Yui was.

Saw the end card again after watching the entire ep, and I was overcome with quite a different feeling. Poor Yui.
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Old 2012-09-22, 17:28   Link #65
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Ok, I'm terribly sorry, I should have made my point clearer. What I meant is that now the console itself is installed at the server of SAO, but if it would be in the normal menu it would be installed with the client of SAO in the Nerve Gear, hence it is now more secure as the other way round, asuming it is easier to hack something installed on your hardware then somewhere on some server
Ahh... I see. That makes some sense, then. Then again, it would actually execute the commands on the server anyway, and the authorization check would still prevent any unauthorized use. Simply having an option called "Console" visible only to GMs should be equally effective. But, on the flipside, I suppose that does give one good reason to have the "emergency back door" -- let's say someone's administrator credentials were compromised, and they used it to remove admin-level access from those who should have it... then at least you know that you can go to this one specific place in the game to get your "powers" back. Then again, once the admin credentials are compromised, it's not like that location would be kept a secret...

Well, in any case, it's an interesting side-question, but probably not worth the whole tangent we've gone into over it.
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Old 2012-09-22, 17:31   Link #66
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I baffled when I saw this many children are in SAO. But then I remembered the countless kiddies who play all kind of stuff... CoD could be one example though there's plenty of non-shooter games.

Yuriel is a good person. She'll probably never appear again but I hope she'll have a good future together with Thinker(sp?), whether in a romantic sense or not. Oh and I hope they'll be able to handle the thugs of the Army guild from now on, the Murderer(?) guild is problematic enough.

Yuiiiii... I assume she pulled out the best sword ingame with like maximum affixes or something. Loli saves the day! I was really letdown when she had to be deleted but then Kirito repays the favor and saves her! I don't know how he did it, I don't even want to. It was the only thing that bugged me though so whatever. I read all the helpful descriptions in earlier posts (thanks) but as a casual anime watcher I believe I am not supposed to know all that console and admin stuff so I was a bit "wtf" at Kirito's h4x skills at first.

Anyway, it ended happier than it could have been so instead of frowning upon the loss, I eagerly await the readdition of Yui at a later point.

What I think this episode basically did was confirm how Kayaba is an ahole even more. And when I put Kirito's view of him at the moment in contrast with how he used to respect him, I get the feeling that Yui's (too small) arc is the beginning of something. As long as I get to see cool fights I'm fine with anything so bring it on!

P.S.: I loved the scene when Asuna threw away all those toad legs with such an agonized reaction.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:17   Link #67
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I'm happy they added in a bit showing Yui's reaction to players killing themselves and other things. Just having her tell the story to Asuna and Kirito wouldn't have been enough, though the scene was depressing. Be designed and programmed to deal with players and help them and then be denied access to doing it but still forced to monitor and watch.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:18   Link #68
ThereminVox
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At the risk of sounding like a terrible person, I can't help but note that SAO handles dramatic farewells the way Lennie from "Of Mice and Men" handles puppies: I don't doubt the enthusiastic sincerity of the affection it has for them, but the results are not always pretty.

On a positive note, the idea of a dungeon opening up under the first floor as the game is cleared is kind of an exciting idea. Kind of reminded me of Monad from Persona 3 Which is why it was no surprise (but still awesome) to see the Reaper show up. I hope this isn't the last we see of it. I like the idea of a deadly bonus dungeon in a death game.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:18   Link #69
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
4. It just so happens that Kirito has the skills needed to operate that terminal (and presumably to think that he'll be able to find some way to restore Yui's AI somehow if they get out).

...

Well, perhaps this gives them command-line access to the system, and for that you really want to use a real keyboard rather than an "on-screen" (in air) one? (I guess they could have just created a keyboard object... ) I guess another reason could be that it's some sort of backup in case things go wrong.
To be honest... I've worked in the gaming industry (rather glad I don't anymore), and expecting the standard MMO GM to be able to find his backside with both hands is expecting a LOT. Blizzard GM's (at least the ones I used to know) were NOT highly paid. They basically pulled down minimum wage while going to college, or just blew their cash playing other games. In other MMO's many of the GM's don't really understand the game, nor know much of anything about computer's. They're just working there because they're gamers and don't really care that the pay's terrible.

So expecting much from that sort of person... well... yah. I'd totally expect the in-game console to be a very dumbed-down version of windows (with plenty of pop-up help). ^_^

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
So we can at least come to the conclusion that Kirito has some degree of skill in this area.
They did go out of their way to showcase that in Ep1, yup.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But then, this is SAO, so I probably should focus on Yui's super cute smile instead of trying to make sense of it.
If you're designed to heal the psyche of unbalanced MMO addicts... that super cute smile was probably there by design

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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Speaking of which... does anyone think the scene would have been more effective if instead of summoning a giant flaming sword she'd just poked him and deleted (or rather, despawned, "deleted" is almost certainly the wrong word) him instantly? I know games are sometimes fond of giving GMs special fancy effects, but narratively it would probably have been powerful to see her completely breaking the rules rather than just having a powerful looking attack. I mean, isn't that why she's an Immortal Object instead of just having infinite HP?
It's a pretty standard MMO trope that all GM's (in all MMO's) have access to super-powerful gear capable of one-shotting the strongest bosses. I certainly remember seeing GM's kill powerful bosses that got bugged in FFXI back in the day.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:20   Link #70
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Speaking of which... does anyone think the scene would have been more effective if instead of summoning a giant flaming sword she'd just poked him and deleted (or rather, despawned, "deleted" is almost certainly the wrong word) him instantly? I know games are sometimes fond of giving GMs special fancy effects, but narratively it would probably have been powerful to see her completely breaking the rules rather than just having a powerful looking attack. I mean, isn't that why she's an Immortal Object instead of just having infinite HP?
While that may work more effective narratively, I still thought the Yui: Total Badass scene was awesome. Yui was the most awesome character this episode!
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:33   Link #71
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It's a pretty standard MMO trope that all GM's (in all MMO's) have access to super-powerful gear capable of one-shotting the strongest bosses. I certainly remember seeing GM's kill powerful bosses that got bugged in FFXI back in the day.
Well, yeah, I did say that "games are fond of giving GMs fancy effects", but in terms of the storytelling I think it would have been more shocking for her power to be a clear rulebreaker rather than something "really strong". The boss even seemed to be able to block it for a short while.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:43   Link #72
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Well, yeah, I did say that "games are fond of giving GMs fancy effects", but in terms of the storytelling I think it would have been more shocking for her power to be a clear rulebreaker rather than something "really strong". The boss even seemed to be able to block it for a short while.
Well, there is a risk in making her too strong. By doing it this way, it shows that she is able to summon powerful objects, but still basically has to obey the game rules to defeat the enemy. She's a sub-system, not Cardinal itself. If should could just blink and the boss disappears, then why doesn't she just "blink" and release all the gamers stuck in this world? Why doesn't she just make all the bosses disappear? Why not do all sorts of other things? So her summoning a weapon to destroy an enemy is a bit of a more calculated display of power; it's localized and specific, and the inherent limits are implied.

(And, incidentally, this is also why she subsequently had to disappear. Someone having access to this sort of power destroys the balance of the game and of the story. And it's also why the console had to reject Kirito and disappear after he accomplished his objective. Otherwise, he could just keep on coming back to this place to get more power as needed.)
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:51   Link #73
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And Aura Yui's identity is revealed.


As for how Kirito was able to do what he did. I say it's a combination of him knowing his way around a computer and Hollywood Hacking. Even though it was probably not even hacking. He probably just poked around in the debug menu a little.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:52   Link #74
Anh_Minh
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Okay, well, let me get out of the way the really obvious thing: it sure was convenient that Kirito was a hacker who could understand the language of The Matrix Cardinal and could convert Yui into an in-game object on his first try on an insane deadline! I mean, not that I'm necessarily doubting that he's a pretty hardcore geek... but how would he even know the commands? I think it would be a bit better if, rather than "hacking" they could have just done something like shown her be converted to an object that was then going to disappear and he grabs out and saves it or something. It conveys the same point without being quite so... lulzy? to anyone who actually knows anything about computers. (This is like what someone who doesn't understand computers thinks about people who are good with computers -- they type at a million words per minute and magic happens that's beyond understanding! )
Maybe they released some kind of development kit before SAO started and Kirito learned how to use it. And remembered it after two years of swinging swords...
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:55   Link #75
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Maybe they released some kind of development kit before SAO started and Kirito learned how to use it. And remembered it after two years of swinging swords...
Well he was a programmer judging by the stuff on his bookshelf at home and obsessed with Kayaba. He had GM access and all the information and everything he needed was there at his fingertips. It sounded like all he did was download Yui's data to his NervGear, the only difference was it made an item too.
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Old 2012-09-22, 19:00   Link #76
Anh_Minh
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Yes, but how did he know the commands to do that? First, he'd have to locate a reference to the Yui object, then use the "turn into game object" command, feed it with the right parameters...
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Old 2012-09-22, 19:00   Link #77
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Maybe they released some kind of development kit before SAO started and Kirito learned how to use it. And remembered it after two years of swinging swords...
...and knew how to access Yui's sub-system that he never even heard of until now. And knew how to convert it into (such a pretty-looking!) in-game object, while also downloading the program itself into his NerveGear memory (why do both? ** see edit below). And he could do all this in less than the time it took the super-powerful computer system itself to delete one program from memory (though perhaps they have some sort of timed-deletion safety check)... And doing all this apparently requires a non-stop mashing of keys even while he waits for the download to complete...

Well, yeah. It basically is the "Hollywood Hacking" trope mentioned above. I just thought it was funny.


Edit: Oh, I get it -- the object is for now and, if they escape the game, he somehow set it so that it would download into his NerveGear memory at that point in time. How he set all that up in that time, of course...
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Old 2012-09-22, 19:03   Link #78
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Okay, well, let me get out of the way the really obvious thing: it sure was convenient that Kirito was a hacker who could understand the language of The Matrix Cardinal and could convert Yui into an in-game object on his first try on an insane deadline! I mean, not that I'm necessarily doubting that he's a pretty hardcore geek... but how would he even know the commands? :heh: I think it would be a bit better if, rather than "hacking" they could have just done something like shown her be converted to an object that was then going to disappear and he grabs out and saves it or something. It conveys the same point without being quite so... lulzy? to anyone who actually knows anything about computers. (This is like what someone who doesn't understand computers thinks about people who are good with computers -- they type at a million words per minute and magic happens that's beyond understanding! :heh: )

Anyway... that aside, I enjoyed the episode. There sure are a lot of parents who bought this VR game for their kids! :heh:

Probably will have more to say in a bit, but will re-watch first...

Edit: Having her be converted into "Yui's Heart" is actually a pretty clever call-back to Episode 4 with "Pina's Heart". But I suppose that, because Yui's not a familiar, that same trick won't "revive" her.
No offense, but I think you're just jealous of Kirito because you think he might be smarter than you and a quicker learner to boot. :o I feel inadequate in comparison to people like him too, but I don't claim poor writing just because a character is capable of something that I'm not. Maybe you're being just a tad conceited here?
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Old 2012-09-22, 19:09   Link #79
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Poking around a debug menu really isn't rocket science though.
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Old 2012-09-22, 19:10   Link #80
Anh_Minh
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No offense, but I think you're just jealous of Kirito because you think he might be smarter than you and a quicker learner to boot. I feel inadequate in comparison to people like him too, but I don't claim poor writing just because a character is capable of something that I'm not. Maybe you're being just a tad conceited here?
Hm, no. Reading a book (or a bunch of web pages) about programming and becoming a great programmer is being a quick learner. Being dumped in front of a computer and just knowing the relevant commands to do whatever it is you need to do without having had an opportunity to learn them is poor writing.
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