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View Poll Results: Sword Art Online - Episode 11 Rating
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 45 34.62%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 37 28.46%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 27 20.77%
7 out of 10 : Good... 7 5.38%
6 out of 10 : Average... 8 6.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.77%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 1 0.77%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 4 3.08%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-22, 04:04   Link #281
Znail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Double post, but it is on a slightly different note from before but will be more on topic, I promise.
I find Kirito & Asuna's relationship rather interesting but I don't think they're a proper romantic relationship, yet (despite what others are saying).

Asuna loves him because of the large influence he's had in her life in the VR world (because she's clearly doing it wrong):
Asuna: "Food's not that tasty is it?" -> The cream on the bread -> Takes up cooking skill
Kirito: "I suggest you join a guild" -> Joins a guild
Kirito: "Don't overdo it, relax" -> Sleeps for the day

Asuna's "I don't know what to do if you had died" makes sense because she's a practically a lost puppy in the VR world.
Compound this with the whole Kirito-Kuradeel & Kirito-Heathcliff fight over Asuna incidents (what girl doesn't like a guy defending her honor?), I think it's clear she feels she owes him.


As for Kirito, I honestly didn't see any (or can't remember - this is where other viewers comes in an makes a rebuttal) what made Kirito love Asuna.
Looking back at ep 10, Kirito says he will use his body for her purpose.
Well, that's logical in the typical man honor code sense (or whatever the correct term is). He now owes her an enormous debt, because she saved him so his idea of repayment is his life in pledge to her service.
She's says she'll leave him alone, so the kiss is his way of binding the contract and ensure she doesn't leave.

They sleep in separate beds despite being "married", and when Asuna whispers she loves him, she is relieved when he didn't hear her. Clearly, they're not on the same page in terms of their relationship.


In this episode, he questions whether their relationship exists in the real world, which is really to ask, what experience(s) still counts in the real world, despite being in a VR world?
As it stands, they believe their lives are on the line, thus their debts to each other are real. But on the off chance no ones actually died, what becomes of their relationship since their entire relationship was based on their debt to each other?
I quite agree with your analysis about Asuna, in fact so are there more examples then those. When we meet her in the anime so is she on a mission to die with her boots on essentially. But inspired by Kirito so does she change that into an honest attempt to clear the game.

But there is one very important aspect left out of your post, time. This is important as to when Asuna decides she wants Kirito as her future husband. It's obviously before the Lizbeth story as she could see the signs then already. The answer is given when she unilaterally decides that they should have dinner together at the end of the murder arc.

So that was the start of Asunas quest to catch Kirito and we got to see the end just now. But that means that she spent 6 months bumping into Kirito to try and make him like her. Considering that she still likes him so would it be safe to say that she is pretty stuck on him.

And while Kirito doesn't really have a better reason to like Asuna other then that she is a pretty girl that he gets along well with, so did she have time carve a place in his heart and he didn't want her to go away now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
People don't really need a reason to fall for eachother. An incentive helps, but really trying to apply reason to love is like trying to apply a jackhammer to a screw.
Agreed. If you lock a couple of teens in a room for a few days so will they either kill each other or fall in love :P So it's not strange that they like each other after spending a couple of years getting to know each other.
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Old 2012-09-22, 08:49   Link #282
Quadratic
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
People don't really need a reason to fall for eachother. An incentive helps, but really trying to apply reason to love is like trying to apply a jackhammer to a screw.
Sorry, but "no reason" is a poor argument, otherwise why didn't Kirito fall for Silica, Lisbeth, Kabaya or a brick wall?

The reason doesn't have to be reasonable, but clearly there is some force at work which makes people fall for each other. If Kirito really did have a reason, it's only because of how attached Asuna is to him, so it's almost like he's just picking the first girl who is really insistent.

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Originally Posted by Znail View Post
So it's not strange that they like each other after spending a couple of years getting to know each other.
But the funny thing is that we barely know anything about them, and they speak like they barely know each other.
Maxed out cooking? Black Cats? Only now wondering about the single handed sword style? Doesn't sound like people who know each other well at all.
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Old 2012-09-22, 09:02   Link #283
Gearhead
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
But the funny thing is that we barely know anything about them, and they speak like they barely know each other.
Maxed out cooking? Black Cats? Only now wondering about the single handed sword style? Doesn't sound like people who know each other well at all.
A lot of their interaction was not combat related after the initial floors and there aren't really moments where Kirito or Asuna have a chance to pry about details.

Kirito knew Asuna cooked, but didn't realize she'd MAXED cooking.

Kirito isn't going to just casually mention the Black Cats to everyone, that's ammo a less kind person could use against him.

You're not really going to pay attention to fine details when you're fighting for your life, but when you HAVE a moment you might spot.. or work up the nerve to ask about.. something that's been bugging you. (As a note, Kirito tends to use a sword that is a little on the large side, it's still a 1h sword, but at first glimpse someone might mistake it for a 2h sword. Until you've FOUGHT with him closely you might miss that he's not using a shield when he could.)

The questions Asuna and Kirito are going over in the leadup to this arc are actually pretty intimate in context.
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Old 2012-09-22, 09:04   Link #284
Krono
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
They sleep in separate beds despite being "married"
No they don't. They sleep in the same bed. The house they bought simply had two beds.
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Old 2012-09-22, 09:05   Link #285
Gearhead
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No they don't. They sleep in the same bed. The house they bought simply had two beds.
It's mentioned that second bed didn't get much use.
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Old 2012-09-22, 09:51   Link #286
grey_moon
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
They sleep in separate beds despite being "married", and when Asuna whispers she loves him, she is relieved when he didn't hear her. Clearly, they're not on the same page in terms of their relationship.
Kind reverse roles of the stereotypical bloke who doesn't like tell the girl he loves his true feelings. Nothing to do with what page of the relationship they are on. I know some blokes who have been married for years (ie more then 40 years) and they still don't (aka never) tell their wives that they love them

The twin beds are probably because they are still young, its hard to figure out what to do in your first physical relationship, married or not.
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Old 2012-09-22, 10:55   Link #287
Gearhead
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Asuna is also horribly, horribly self conscious. She probably really covets her image of being tough. Turning into a complete and utter GIRL is probably mortifying.

'I can't believe I just said that. I didn't mean to say that out loud. I don't want him to wake up yet. OH GOD HE'S WAKING UP! Was he already awake?'
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Old 2012-09-22, 11:24   Link #288
Dengar
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Sorry, but "no reason" is a poor argument, otherwise why didn't Kirito fall for Silica, Lisbeth, Kabaya or a brick wall?

The reason doesn't have to be reasonable, but clearly there is some force at work which makes people fall for each other. If Kirito really did have a reason, it's only because of how attached Asuna is to him, so it's almost like he's just picking the first girl who is really insistent.
You took my comment about not needing a reason a little TOO literally. I don't disagree with any of the above. It's just that, in real life as well, most of the time people are just attracted to someone. There usually isn't any kind of logic to it. The person they're attracted to usually just have that 'something'.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:07   Link #289
SPARTAN 119
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Sorry, but "no reason" is a poor argument, otherwise why didn't Kirito fall for Silica, Lisbeth, Kabaya or a brick wall?
Well for the latter, because I'm pretty sure Kirito isn't into brick walls.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:09   Link #290
Anh_Minh
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I really don't see why "she's a pretty girl that likes him" isn't a good enough reason... Though really, he does have other reasons. Like her drive, or her swordsmanship.
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Old 2012-09-22, 18:51   Link #291
Adigard
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I really don't see why "she's a pretty girl that likes him" isn't a good enough reason... Though really, he does have other reasons. Like her drive, or her swordsmanship.
+The fact that he doesn't need to protect her from dungeons mobs that would kill any of those other girls on the front-lines?
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Old 2012-09-22, 21:04   Link #292
Quadratic
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
No they don't. They sleep in the same bed. The house they bought simply had two beds.
So, based on the anime, they bought a house with 2 beds for no apparent reason, other than plot reasons.
Then, Asuna, who is whispering to Kirito, is found over the sheets (not under like a normal person who had been sleeping with your partner). In the anime.
Then, they place Yui on their bed, instead of the 'guest' bed (first bed scene, they're sleeping on the left bed, after they get Yui they sleep on the right bed). In the anime.

Of the three, the only one that can be explained is the second one, which is Kirito and Asuna had sex, Asuna went to the bathroom (are there even toilets?), then went back to bed finding already Kirito asleep after doing the deed.


Fine, I'm scratching this entire argument to 'refer to page X in the novel' and 'it happened for plot reasons'.

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Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119 View Post
Well for the latter, because I'm pretty sure Kirito isn't into brick walls.
With the amount of punch-outs by Asuna, I'd say he's pretty intimate with [Immovable Object]
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Old 2012-09-23, 09:27   Link #293
Alucard24
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Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
'
This has been brought up before... and honestly I've never understood why it's relevant or even bears mentioning.
Well, the funny thing is that, for SAO, it was first published in 2009 but then, people say "oh but he worked on it since 2002 !". Ok, no problem. But when it's about .hack, it's the date of the first time in was shown on TV that's used, 4th april 2002, and the fact that it was obviously worked on since long before too is totaly disregarded.

That's like comparating apples and strawberries ....

Btw, it's not a problem to be inspired by previous work you know ?
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Old 2012-09-23, 09:48   Link #294
Anh_Minh
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Well, the funny thing is that, for SAO, it was first published in 2009 but then, people say "oh but he worked on it since 2002 !".
No, their point is that SAO was first published in 2002. On the web.

Quote:
Ok, no problem. But when it's about .hack, it's the date of the first time in was shown on TV that's used, 4th april 2002, and the fact that it was obviously worked on since long before too is totaly disregarded.
That's because they're answering an accusation (or innuendo?) that SAO ripped off .hack. There is no accusation for the other way around, so what matters is when .hack became accessible to the public.
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Old 2012-09-23, 09:55   Link #295
Alucard24
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As for me, I'm not saying SAO ripped off .hack but I'm pretty sure the autor of SAO saw .hack before he made Yui.

Like I said, it's not a bad thing but it feels strange to see that 10 years after Aura ....
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Old 2012-09-23, 11:03   Link #296
Znail
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Originally Posted by Alucard24 View Post
As for me, I'm not saying SAO ripped off .hack but I'm pretty sure the autor of SAO saw .hack before he made Yui.

Like I said, it's not a bad thing but it feels strange to see that 10 years after Aura ....
Why are you so sure of that?

It doesn't even make sense as while SAO was published in 2002 so did it take months at the least to write it as a he wrote it while being busy with lots of other things.

But more importantly so while one can argue wich one of SAO and HACK came before the other so was neither first with the idea of a VRMMO nor AI's inside it. So if their seems to be any similarities between the two, then that is most likely from other mutual sources.
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Old 2012-09-23, 12:15   Link #297
Adigard
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No, their point is that SAO was first published in 2002. On the web.
^ THAT

Pretty much exactly that. Just because you're seeing it now in 2012 doesn't mean it didn't exist prior. Just because the author found a publisher who purchased his web novel in 2009 doesn't mean it didn't exist prior.

But essentially we're deal with tropes and concepts... I'm sure they're both copying someone elses work ultimately.
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Old 2012-09-23, 14:05   Link #298
Dengar
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Some of us are just making nonlineair comparisons anyways.
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Old 2012-09-24, 13:59   Link #299
Alucard24
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Why are you so sure of that?
So if their seems to be any similarities between the two, then that is most likely from other mutual sources.
I'd LOVE to see thoses sources
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Old 2012-09-24, 15:13   Link #300
Krono
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I'd LOVE to see thoses sources
While I'd say the odds of it being a source for them are low, if you're looking for series with a "stuck in a virtual world" related plot from before 2002, there's Tad Williams "Otherland" series.

Really, "trapped in a virtual world" plots have likely been around almost as long as the concept of VR itself. Heck, they crop up from time to time in Scifi series like Star Trek, and Stargate. So while it's theoretically possible early .hack promotions or episodes sparked the idea for SAO, it's a far cry to say that one rips off the other.
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