AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Sword Art Online

Notices

View Poll Results: Sword Art Online - Episode 12 Rating
10 out of 10 : Near Perfect.... 44 29.93%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 31 21.09%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 19.73%
7 out of 10 : Good... 20 13.61%
6 out of 10 : Average... 12 8.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 3 2.04%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 3 2.04%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 3 2.04%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.68%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 1 0.68%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-09-23, 07:44   Link #161
ronelm2000
Moe Kyun~!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Send a message via Skype™ to ronelm2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
Spoiler for Novel Information skipped as usual - Hair Color:
Wait...wait...wait...

Spoiler for Vol. 2 -- Warmth of the Heart? -- Implication of Above Spoiler:
ronelm2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 08:03   Link #162
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Dye item. Diabel'd done it.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 08:18   Link #163
Kamui04
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
That girl was obviously Liz, hairpin, freckles, hair color all checked out.
Actually her hair is brown in that scene vs her current Pink color.

Spoiler for Vol. 2 details about Liz appearance cut out from the Anime.:


Spoiler for LN information about Dying hair color:


Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
That assures nothing.
They can still go out in the first field, and harass/kill low level players like the kids in that orphanage, while they try to hunt some rabbits and boars.
Which will turn them into orange players which might result in them being hunted/killed or sent to jail.
Kamui04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 08:42   Link #164
arkxkra
全力全開
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Non-management 97th world
already expect what happen on this episode, but still almost cry. Btw, Yui screen time too little.

wonder where Kirito learn those skill to transfer Yui to his nerve gear !!???
__________________
arkxkra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 08:59   Link #165
Adigard
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Watch the bit where Yui runs out to join the fight -- you can clearly see Bright and Yuriel getting teleported in the background, most likely by Yui with her power.
Even more likely they were teleported by the teleport crystals they had in their hands in the prior scene.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Easy to use for the GMs - who could be expected to know a handful of commands, and not work with Kirito's deadline - and flexible. At best, that means that Kirito could be expected to figure it out with a little time to look at man pages, but he didn't have that time.
Really guys, GM's in MMO's are poorly paid scrubs who do customer service... they're not programmers, they're not IT people... they're barely people to the company they work for and are easily replaced. It's not going to require much research to use a console designed for GM interaction. And if it's an emergency access type thing... IE - to be used in a situation where the standard GM controls (likely built into the GM menu loaded in NervGEAR don't work) it's fairly safe to say it's not going to be overly complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronelm2000 View Post
Wait...wait...wait...

Spoiler for Vol. 2 -- Warmth of the Heart? -- Implication of Above Spoiler:
The end-card we see for Liz's episode, coupled with the earlier picture of her without the pink hair, the guy with blue hair... But yes, apparently you can dye hair in SAO. Since we see folks on the first floor who have done it, it's a safe assumption that it's likely just a rare drop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Right, I know. I pointed out the call-back way back on the first page of the thread. But I guess the question is: does the jewel (the inventory item) actually matter or not? Or, in other words, could Kirito have downloaded Yui's data into his personal NerveGear storage without creating an in-game item? If the object is damaged/destroyed, does anything happen to Yui's program?
That's a toughie... but Kirito said "I've arranged for Yui's data to be saved to my NervGear's local memory" in my subs. Which suggests that he's copied her data to the computer he's running SAO on. Which doesn't strike me as being odd, really, if a GM finds something odd he's going to want to look at it off-line in a test environment. You don't see many MMO GM's testing things in live production (at least, I personally wouldn't play a MMO with that level of testing / lack of).

So he has a copy of her data... but the jewel / heart is a bit of a toughie. Did he split the data? Did he send a copy of her data to a different computer? Did handing Asuna the jewel move the data from his PC to hers? I think (and the novel's don't touch it at all) he simply created something for her to hold onto as a reminder. It's cleaner, ultimately. And it harkens back to Pina's heart that we saw in earlier episodes so it's an easy tie-in for the anime viewers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Edit: To be clear, I do realize it doesn't really matter. Well, if Yui's program is actually actively linked to the item, then it could be important, I guess... but it's mostly just for the sake of conversation than anything else. The real value of having the item is that it will serve as a reminder for Kirito, Asuna, and us in the audience for the remainder of the show.
Yup, that's how I take it. I just find it cleaner to assume Kirito copied the data locally to his PC and created something Asuna could wear... also, clothing updates in anime are good!

Last edited by Adigard; 2012-09-23 at 09:14.
Adigard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 09:10   Link #166
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
Really guys, GM's in MMO's are poorly paid scrubs who do customer service... they're not programmers, they're not IT people... they're barely people to the company they work for and are easily replaced. It's not going to require much research to use a console designed for GM interaction. And if it's an emergency access type thing... IE - to be used in a situation where the standard GM controls (likely built into the GM menu loaded in NervGEAR don't work) it's fairly safe to say it's not going to be overly complicated.
Then that kind of person shouldn't be able to turn a piece of proprietary AI software into a game object to be saved to the user's hardware. The commands for that shouldn't exist, and a scrub shouldn't have the right to use them if they did.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 09:17   Link #167
Adigard
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Then that kind of person shouldn't be able to turn a piece of proprietary AI software into a game object to be saved to the user's hardware. The commands for that shouldn't exist, and a scrub shouldn't have the right to use them if they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adigard
Which suggests that he's copied her data to the computer he's running SAO on. Which doesn't strike me as being odd, really, if a GM finds something odd he's going to want to look at it off-line in a test environment. You don't see many MMO GM's testing things in live production (at least, I personally wouldn't play a MMO with that level of testing / lack of).
hmmm, didn't I touch on this exact point in my post? Fine, whatever, you see it as being overly complicated, I see it as being perfectly common-sense. Don't know what to tell you really. Most of the time if you tell a GM you've found a bug they'll try to replicate it off-line and test it. So copying a broken piece of code to look at in a test environment seems reasonable to me.

If you can't accept that reasoning, I recommend you never ever watch a Hollywood film involving hacking... because your head will explode, "I'm going to take my apple laptop into space and hack into the enemies computer system and win the war..."

I just love the fact that we're having issues with the notion that someone can copy a piece of code... and NOT finding fault in the idea that someone can design a MMO that's totally self-reliant and doesn't need human intervention, and that can counsel psychological issues without needing a human shrink!

Seriously? I mean... really? This is what we're getting hung up on?
Adigard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 09:18   Link #168
firestalker5
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
But Kirito said that he used the same log in ID that YUI used to delete the monster since she remained logged in the whole time.
firestalker5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 09:24   Link #169
n120cky
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Surely save an AI is doesn't make sense, but I think we must believe Kirito can did that for the sake of Yui.

Hmm what surprise me is at least the game have a psychiatry on it's own.
n120cky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 09:25   Link #170
Kamui04
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkxkra View Post
already expect what happen on this episode, but still almost cry. Btw, Yui screen time too little.

wonder where Kirito learn those skill to transfer Yui to his nerve gear !!???
Well the matter of programming/hax/GM console been discussed to death.

As to how he could transfer Yui to his nerver gear. That's a matter of how SAO handles the client and server side of things. Some MMOs let the client handle stuff like calculating your own character actions, holding inventory and other stuff where it is pre-validated and the calculated data is later sent to the server.
Kamui04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 09:34   Link #171
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
hmmm, didn't I touch on this exact point in my post?

Fine, whatever, you see it as being overly complicated, I see it as being perfectly common-sense. Don't know what to tell you really.

Most of the time if you tell a GM you've found a bug they'll try to replicate it off-line and test it. So copying a broken piece of code to look at in a test environment seems reasonable to me.
I'm saying you can't have it both way - either the GMs have a modicum of competence regarding the application's code and they will possibly have access to it, along with powerful, flexible tools that maybe won't be so easy to use for any idiot pulled off the street, or they don't, and what they can do is severely limited by the need to simplify their UI and by the lack of trust placed in them not to mess things up.

Admittedly, my experience isn't in games, but what I imagine should happen is that if a player spots a bug and tells a GM, the GM (who isn't a coder) will try to reproduce it, and if he can do it, will then kick the matter to maintenance (who will be coders) along with the logs, or a way to extract the relevant logs, so they can try to reproduce it on a development server. At no point will the GM have access to the code, or even the raw data that makes up the application, nor can they be expected to extract the relevant bits. Though they may have techs to call on to do that.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 09:45   Link #172
Kafriel
Senior Guest
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 25
Quote:
Admittedly, my experience isn't in games, but what I imagine should happen is that if a player spots a bug and tells a GM, the GM (who isn't a coder) will try to reproduce it, and if he can do it, will then kick the matter to maintenance (who will be coders) along with the logs, or a way to extract the relevant logs, so they can try to reproduce it on a development server. At no point will the GM have access to the code, or even the raw data that makes up the application, nor can they be expected to extract the relevant bits. Though they may have techs to call on to do that.
Technically, everyone has access to all client-sided data, since it's stored in their computer, but reverse engineering and extracting particular information requires some skill. Editing server-sided data (i.e. package editing or PE for short) is hacker territory.
__________________
Kafriel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 09:51   Link #173
Alucard24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
My thoughts on this episode in two statements:

Yui = Aura

Cardinal = Morganna Mode Gone

If you know .hack you should more or less understand what I'm getting at.

Except that Aura is all mighty and Yui is just a subprogram
Alucard24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 10:03   Link #174
Utsuro no Hako
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
But did it -have- to be a little girl, rush it in 1.5 episodes (couldn't someone so "important" be used to defeat say... the last few bosses of the very top floors, which I'm assuming are going to be "overpowered" and intentionally somewhat "glitchy")
So you want her to be a deus ex machina for the whole series instead of in an arc focused entirely on her mysteriousness?

Also, remember what Kirito said several episodes back about the game being fair? Don't you think that would work both ways -- once Kayaba becomes aware of a deus ex machina in the game, you think he's going to let the heroes keep it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
Even more likely they were teleported by the teleport crystals they had in their hands in the prior scene.
Considering they were shouting for Yui to come back when the light flashed, I doubt it.
Utsuro no Hako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 11:03   Link #175
Esebian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adigard View Post
hmmm, didn't I touch on this exact point in my post? Fine, whatever, you see it as being overly complicated, I see it as being perfectly common-sense. Don't know what to tell you really. Most of the time if you tell a GM you've found a bug they'll try to replicate it off-line and test it. So copying a broken piece of code to look at in a test environment seems reasonable to me.

If you can't accept that reasoning, I recommend you never ever watch a Hollywood film involving hacking... because your head will explode, "I'm going to take my apple laptop into space and hack into the enemies computer system and win the war..."

I just love the fact that we're having issues with the notion that someone can copy a piece of code... and NOT finding fault in the idea that someone can design a MMO that's totally self-reliant and doesn't need human intervention, and that can counsel psychological issues without needing a human shrink!

Seriously? I mean... really? This is what we're getting hung up on?
Yeah that's also a point that kept me bugging ever since I read it in the LN, how does Cardinal work? Is it some sort of AI like Yui, only with much more rights or is it sth even more? IMO Cardinal is the most mysterious thingy in the whole series...

And for the hacking: Well it really isn't quite hard to hack anyway, there was even a time where u could simply use Telnet for hacking XD

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako
Considering they were shouting for Yui to come back when the light flashed, I doubt it.
Well I'm thinking that Yui was holding hands with those two as they said where they wanted to go. In the moment the crystal activates Yui runs away from them and because of this they were shouting, the crystal was already active and thus they were teleported, but without Yui
Esebian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 11:35   Link #176
Zeriand
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
The episode seems to be executed poorly. The level 90 boss was... unexciting to say the least. The level 75? Or 85? boss they fought earlier felt a lot more menacing. The sob scene was... not actually sad. I could be too insensitive, but I can't feel anything even remotely close to Asuna's many tears. Something just doesn't tick there. How to say, between Asuna and Kirito getting to know Yui, to the near-death crisis that doesn't feel like one, to the revelation that Yui's an AI, to her 'death', to her prompt and super awkward resurrection as game object - everything is just too fast. Way too fast.
Zeriand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 12:14   Link #177
Netto Azure
→ Asada Shino
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Space Battle Cruiser Gurokken
Umm to help somewhat with the whole debate over Kirito accessing the GM panel... Kawahara tweeted that (Ran through Google translate , cleaned the translation a little):

twitter.com/kunori/status/249529363681382400

Hope someone has a better translation.
Spoiler for Are tweets by the author spoilers? xD:
__________________
Netto Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 12:46   Link #178
Esebian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netto Azure View Post
Umm to help somewhat with the whole debate over Kirito accessing the GM panel... Kawahara tweeted that (Ran through Google translate , cleaned the translation a little):

twitter.com/kunori/status/249529363681382400

Hope someone has a better translation.
Spoiler for Are tweets by the author spoilers? xD:
Lol, if that would work that simple in RL noone would have computer problems xD normally he would have at least to shutdown the process of Yui, before he can copy her over to his storage imo.
Esebian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 12:59   Link #179
Rakshasa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 下北沢、東京
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esebian View Post
Lol, if that would work that simple in RL noone would have computer problems xD normally he would have at least to shutdown the process of Yui, before he can copy her over to his storage imo.
Ever heard of live migration?

Ever heard of volume snapshots?

Ever heard of... ehm... I work with writing virtualization related stuff and lets just say that in 10 years things will have changed a lot.

Basically the most likely scenario for handling AI's, and even NPC's, etc, would be to run them separately under virtual machines. For many reasons, including dealing with inevitable hardware failures.
__________________
libTorrent - A BitTorrent library and ncurses client for *nix.
Rakshasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-09-23, 13:04   Link #180
Esebian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakshasa View Post
Ever heard of live migration?

Ever heard of volume snapshots?

Ever heard of... ehm... I work with writing virtualization related stuff and lets just say that in 10 years things will have changed a lot.

Basically the most likely scenario for handling AI's, and even NPC's, etc, would be to run them separately under virtual machines. For many reasons, including dealing with inevitable hardware failures.
Ok, you are right I have forgotten that it plays in 2022 , but right now not rly as Virtual machines in the moment simply couldn't handle an entire AI (apart from the point that a real AI still has to be created ), but yes in 10 years that will be most likely the case

EDIT: And yeah I have heard of all these but as I said made the foolish error to put the situation in nowadays computer industry XD
Esebian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.