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Old 2003-11-05, 01:44   Link #21
p3psi
Oscar winning black actor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by skillosopher
awesome thread! exactly what we needed around here. but i have a few questions. for the number 4, when do we say shi, and when do we say yon. surely they must have appropriate usages. for instance...yondaime = shidaime?

and...for 22. if 20 = ni ju, and 21 = ni ju ichi, then why does 22 = ni ju san? shouldnt 22 = ni ju ni? like 199 = hayku kyu ju kyu?

help!
well for instance, for time:
4 o'clock--you never say "shi ji", you say "yo ji"
and for 9 o'clock, you don say "kyou ji" you say "ku ji"
those are the two exceptions for time

however, for months
january = ichi gatsu
february= ni gatsu
march =san gatsu
april = shi gatsu
september = ku gatsu
again, those two, 4 and 9, are the exceptions

but as a general rule, i suggest you just use "yon" for most cases when you're not sure, except of course for "april".

also, for age, turning 20 in japan is like turning 21 in america, its really special.
so only for the age of 20, you say "ha ta chi", not "ni ju sai"

also, its a mistake that he wrote "ni ju san" for 22, your rights, its "ni ju ni". "ni ju san" =23

wow, it seems that i know more japanese than what i thought i knew.

Last edited by p3psi; 2003-11-05 at 14:17.
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Old 2003-11-05, 04:53   Link #22
Ducati_nut
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: "Kalifornia" USA
Since we should know the numbers by now, let's learn how to tell time.


NEW Vocabulary you'll need to know:
gogo = P.M.
gozen = A.M.
-ji = o'clock (suffix)
nan = what (short for nani)
ima = now
han = half


important particle markers you'll need to know:
Note about particles: Particles are placed after words in japanese. In english particles are placed in front of the words. For example in english we would say, "from 2 o'clock". In japanese we say,"ni-ji kara". We do not say kara ni-ji.
kara = from
made = until
wa = as for (subject marker)

example of particle usage:
Japanese: Kent-san wa amerika-jin desu.
English1: As for Mr. Kent, he is an american. <or>
English2: Mr. Kent is an american.
(note that particles are always placed after the word they modify)


Telling time
Ichi-ji = 1 o'clock
Ni-ji = 2 o'clock
San-ji = 3 o'clock
Yo-ji = 4 o'clock Note: Irregular, it is Yo-ji. Not yon-ji and Not shi-ji
Go-ji = 5 o'clock
Roku-ji = 6 o'clock
Shichi-ji = 7 o'clock Note: Shichi-ji. Not nana-ji
Hachi-ji = 8 o'clock
Ku-ji = 9 o'clock Note: ku-ji. Not Kyuu-ji
Juu-ji = 10 o'clock
Juuichi-ji = 11 o'clock
Juuni-ji = 12 o'clock

To specify A.M. or P.M. simply add gozen or gogo in front of the time.
Examples:
Japanese: Gogo ni-ji desu.
English: It is 2 o'clock P.M.

Japanese: Gozen ku-ji desu.
English: It is 9 o'clock A.M.
To say 1:30 simply add han after the time.
Examples:
Japanese: Ichi-ji han desu.
English: It is 1:30
An example using everything we know so far:
Japanese: Gogo yo-ji han desu.
English: It is 4:30 P.M.
Now to indicate from a certain time or until a certain time simply add kara or made after the time.

Example:
Japanese: Ichi-ji kara desu.
English: from 1 o'clock

Japanese: Ni-ji han made desu.
English: until 2:30

Basic sentences
Japanese: Ima nan-ji desu ka
English: What time is it now?

Japanese: Best Buy wa nan-ji kara desu ka.
English1: From what time does best buy open? <or>
English2: What time does Best Buy open?

Japanese response: Gozen ku-ji kara desu.
English1: (it opens) from 9 A.M. <or>
English2: It opens at 9 A.M.

Japanese: Best Buy wa nan-ji made desu ka.
English1: Until what time is best buy open? <or>
English2: When does Best Buy close?

Japanese response: Gogo juu-ji made desu.
English1: (it is open) until 10 P.M. <or>
English2: It closes at 10 P.M.

Japanese: Best Buy wa nan-ji kara nan-ji made desu ka.
English1: From what time, until what time, is best buy open? <or>
English2: When does Best Buy open and close?

Japanese response: Best Buy wa gozen ku-ji kara gogo juu-ji made desu.
English: Best Buy is open from 9 A.M. until 10 P.M.


Notes: English 1 is a more literal translation of what is said in japanese. English 2 is a more natural way of saying it in english.

P.S. Everything I wrote is from my memory of Peterson-sensei's class. If I made any mistakes please contact me and I will fix them. I want to be as accurate as possible so that it will be beneficial to people. I had lots of fun writing this up, and as a side affect, it helped me refresh my memory of telling time. In the future I might modify this post so that it will become more clear, and perhaps add Test Questions to it. I will definately add more at a later time, it is currently 12 am and I gotta wake up early tomorrow... err today...

Last edited by Ducati_nut; 2003-11-05 at 16:56.
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Old 2003-11-05, 09:15   Link #23
Megane
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I would suggest that those who are actually keen on teaching Japanese here, should be avoiding romaji and using kana as much as possible. It's detrimental to the learning process otherwise. For those running Windows, install the Japanese Input method and switch your broswer encoding to Shift_JIS.
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Old 2003-11-05, 14:28   Link #24
p3psi
Oscar winning black actor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Ducati_nut I think your sentences are incorrect, i think you need to use the verb open="akeru".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Megane
I would suggest that those who are actually keen on teaching Japanese here, should be avoiding romaji and using kana as much as possible. It's detrimental to the learning process otherwise. For those running Windows, install the Japanese Input method and switch your broswer encoding to Shift_JIS.

ok, if we did this, we got to teach them the alpabet first.

these are just links i picked off a search engine, if you find a better alphabet, like one that has sound, post it!

hiragana-http://www.genki-online.com/kyozai/hiragana.html
katakana-http://www.genki-online.com/kyozai/katakana.html

do what ever you have to do to memorize these, wether its flash cards, or a computer game. It should take about a week of practice for each to recall with ease and confidence. It also depends on how your study habits are, so it could take longer or shorter for you to get these down pat.

since this is begginer japanese, dont worry about learning kanji right now, hopefully we'll get to that later.

basically, when you use katakana, its for words taken form other langauges, and you will notice that a lot of these words are from the english langauge.
also, non-japanese names are written in katakana.
I think japanese names can be written either way.
so most of you, when you write your name in japanese, it should be in katakana.

dont worry about what vocab word is written in which, becuase when you memorize them, they will be given in either the correct hirgana or katakana

to keep track of where your progress should be, if you've been following and practicing so far
You should be able to:
Count numbers up to the hundered of thousands.
NOTICE, you can count numbers, not count things or people yet.
e.g. You cannot say "3 apples" as "san ringo".
this is going to be slightly complicated because it matters on what type of object you're talking about and what counter you use. therefore, this will be in a later lesson so dont worry about it now .

Basic greetings such as konichiwa.
Asking someone if they speak/know a language.
Asking someone thier nationality.
Days of the week, but not dates of the month yet.
Telling whole number time, like 4:00 and 4:30, but not 4:35
I'll add how to say 4 hours and 12 mins, for example, in my next post.


AFter this post, no more romanji form me! i will only post in hiragna and japanese, so you guys should study them

Last edited by p3psi; 2003-11-05 at 15:31.
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Old 2003-11-05, 16:04   Link #25
Shii
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You should note that subjects are often omitted in Japanese, so "watashi ha" and "boku ha" are not really that necessary.

Right:
Mihama Chiyo desu, yoroshiku onegai shimasu!
WRONG:
Watashi ha Mihama Chiyo desu, yoroshiku onegai shimasu!

(vocab: "yoroshiku" etc. is a standard statement of introduction, when you are introduced to the Emperor please say yoroshiku onegai itashimasu)
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Old 2003-11-06, 00:30   Link #26
PiGGiEE
PiGGiEE Judo Chop Chop!
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Funny Farm
so what books do you recommend in learning japanese? i wanna learn but don't even know where to start or what books are good.
hmmmm... perhaps... taking classes would be better since there is someone there to help with my pronunciations...
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Old 2003-11-06, 03:56   Link #27
gravitation
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yeah classes would be ALOT better, but books...ermm a dictionary thats pretty good...and im not sure about others coz here in england they dont have many japanese books... i could just about find a dictionary! and its not even good
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Old 2003-11-06, 12:06   Link #28
Shii
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Yeah, I have found the best books for learning Japanese are actually textbooks. Taking a class is the best options.
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Old 2003-11-06, 12:21   Link #29
hamiko_san
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some japanese sentenses!

10 things more, you never know.

Last edited by hamiko_san; 2007-12-25 at 16:03.
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Old 2003-11-06, 12:39   Link #30
gravitation
Don't use animesuki now..
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: London, UK
Age: 24
kare(he)/kanojyo(she) wa kawaii to omoimasu.
I think he/she is cute ^_^
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Old 2003-11-06, 13:39   Link #31
monpuchi
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Aitsu chotto tii bii esu da kedo, demo are, ne, totemo jozu na no yo! 

Ano eichi bii mita ka yo? Oe! 

Suzuko wa ano doressu de hakike ga suru hodo busu datta! 

Omae no suke supa eirian da zo! 


its pointless to put down a bunch of sentences and their meanings unless you explain what the parts of the sentences translate as
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Old 2003-11-06, 17:53   Link #32
Kempis Curious
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Loving a peaceful life in San Clemente, California.
Age: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by monpuchi
its pointless to put down a bunch of sentences and their meanings unless you explain what the parts of the sentences translate as
Well, it's not completely pointless, but it does help to do a middle translation too. The best Learning Japanese book I've read did this and it really helped:

"Kore wa juu desu ka?"
"This (subj.) gun is (qstn)?"
"Is this a gun?"

It's a good tool for memorizing the particles like "no" and "o" and such. If all the subtitled anime that I've watched did that I'd be able to speak Japanese by now. ^_^ Sheesh, I've watched over 700 of them so far and all I know are mostly single words and short phrases. Kuso! Bakayaro! Urusei!!!

-k
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Old 2003-11-06, 18:18   Link #33
[Titan]
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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based on the first post (and watching too much anime) I would say

"Watashi wa" means "I am" (but wasn't this the female form, and wasn't the male form something like "Boku wa"?)
"desu" would imply the end of a sentence
"desu ka" implies a question
"kore wa" means you're talking about a thing or object; "this is"
"anata wa" means "you are"

so that's what I've "learned" from just the first post. But... is it correct?

questions I still have after the first post:

-Is it really necessary to end a sentence with "desu"?
-are there differences when the person who's talking is male of female?
-if you are talking to a person, does it matter if that person is male of female?
-Do I sound like a three year old girl when I say those sentences to a japanese person?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being negative about your thread, but I think providing more information on grammar, sentence structure and meanings of words would make this thread a lot more usefull.
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Old 2003-11-06, 18:39   Link #34
Sakura-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitation
I = Watashi (watashi wa)*Watashi is considered the female one*
I = Boku (boku wa) *Boku is the male version*
I'm confused... @_@ Wasn't boku kids' version? And ore male version?
If it's not, then why Chise laughs when Shuji calls himself boku(Saishuheiki kanoujou)? @____@
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Old 2003-11-06, 18:51   Link #35
gravitation
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Age: 24
yeah watashi = i and is conisdered to be female
boku wa = i and is considered to be more male, yeah i think that it is for kids and ore is the male one for guys ^_^
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Old 2003-11-06, 18:54   Link #36
gravitation
Don't use animesuki now..
 
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Age: 24
its not neccesary to say desu after everything but it signifys that you have finished speaking ^_^
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Old 2003-11-06, 18:57   Link #37
hamiko_san
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10 things more, you never know.
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Last edited by hamiko_san; 2007-12-25 at 15:59.
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Old 2003-11-06, 19:15   Link #38
dot_rain
yay yay ^^
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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omg , gotta love it even though me don't understand ^o^
ps : we really need to know how to pronounce them .

Edit : added ps
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Old 2003-11-06, 19:20   Link #39
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [Titan]
based on the first post (and watching too much anime) I would say

"Watashi wa" means "I am" (but wasn't this the female form, and wasn't the male form something like "Boku wa"?)
"desu" would imply the end of a sentence
"desu ka" implies a question
"kore wa" means you're talking about a thing or object; "this is"
"anata wa" means "you are"

so that's what I've "learned" from just the first post. But... is it correct?

questions I still have after the first post:

-Is it really necessary to end a sentence with "desu"?
-are there differences when the person who's talking is male of female?
-if you are talking to a person, does it matter if that person is male of female?
-Do I sound like a three year old girl when I say those sentences to a japanese person?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being negative about your thread, but I think providing more information on grammar, sentence structure and meanings of words would make this thread a lot more usefull.
Um.. 'watashi wa' is simply a phrase saying that one of the subjects in the sentence is 'watashi' or 'I'. The wa is particle denoting that the word/phrase in front of it is the subject of the sentence (in the sense that it would be a subject in an English sentence, but the predicate is much more important that what the subject was, AFAIK).

boku is a masculine first person pronoun, whereas atashi is a feminine first person pronoun. You'll notice in Kanon that Ayu uses 'boku' and hence is more of a tomboy.

The closest correlation to the 'am' in 'I am' would probably be the 'desu' (polite form of da, the copula). However, that's not a totally correct description, since I believe the copula da is just used to indicate a statement. A 'ka' appended to the end of a sentence implies a question, and can be appended to verbs as well as the copula.

If you used subjects in all of your sentences, you'll probably sound more like a student learning Japanese than a three year old. I think in everyday speech, people tend to omit subjects (which is why translation can be so annoying at times).

And yeah, there's definitely differences in speech between masculine and feminine people. For example, there was this navy guy who married a Japanese girl. For a while everyone thought he was gay because he picked up his Japanese from her. Thinks like appending 'wa' after a sentence like 'Atashi wa sugoku nemui desu wa' implies some sort of feminity, though probably more in the regal sense. Also things like watakushi, instead of watashi, etc. Males tend to use rougher speech and use subjects like ore (which is kinda egotistical). And I was told to not use 'ja ne' too much since I was a guy ~_~

Seriously though, if you're really interested in Japanese, pick up a book, or better yet attend classes. Getting indirect tutoring from someone still taking Japanese runs the risk of contracting his/her bad habits. Then when you really decide to take Japanese, you'd have to unlearn all of those.

Quote:
: "Sore wa kechappu desu ka?" ("Is that ketchup?")
: "Iie, kore wa chi desu. Atashi no chi desu." ("No, this is blood. My blood.")
Is it just me, or does that remind people of Hyatt from Excel Saga?
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Old 2003-11-06, 19:23   Link #40
Shii
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Watashi wa unagi desu.
You read the OP and you think this is "I am an eel"? No, no, bad.
As for me, it's [I'll have] eel. Ordering food!

Nasty people teaching that "wa" marks the subject. You fail at Japan

If you went to a restaurant you would be confused!

Quote:
"Watashi wa Haruna desu." = I am Haruna.
(This is WRONG)
Uh... no... "I am Haruna" would be translated "Haruna desu". "Watashi wa" is a whole new clause: "As for me, I'm Haruna", as if a line of characters were being introduced. If we were greeting each other and you said, "Watashi wa gaijin desu", I might look around for your friends. You would also be a girl (for using "watashi" colloquially).

And "I am a cat" is translated "Wahagai wa neko dearu", of course
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