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Old 2012-06-17, 21:07   Link #361
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Well, given they're freely able to make coordinators (and some of the more wackier things in sidestory, like George Glenn's "mind"), I think cosmetic surgery should be pretty advanced assuming Mu was still alive in the first place.

The problem is that he's still alive in the first place, but whatever.
I wouldn't say being alive in general is as big a thing to me as the fact that he's alive but looking like absolutely nothing happened to him at all besides that 1 tiny little scar on the nose when you consider how mangled his body and organs should've been from being inside a MS explosion like that, similar to Heero, even with a pilot suit.

I mean, Andrew Waltfeld, despite being alive, at the very least, had lost an eye and an arm after being in the LaGOWE's explosion (having a prosthetic arm in his reappearance).
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Old 2012-06-17, 21:08   Link #362
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We know that the technology to remove scars exists in SEED, too. Yzak had his removed between SEED and Destiny.
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Old 2012-06-17, 21:37   Link #363
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Scar removal (especially a small scar like Yzak's and Mwu's) is a pretty small thing to healing from...well...all that.
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Old 2012-06-18, 13:14   Link #364
Zulu Keita
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Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
Then I'd suggest watching the other series' as well. Personally, I found SEED and SEED Destiny to be pretty weak overall. Some MS designs were cool and the music was good, but plot and character development-wise...ehh...
I will definetly take your advice, Im currently watching Zeta Gundam actually, so far so good .

I have to disagree with you about Seed/Destiny but I wont start an arguement, the Soundtrack and MS designs were definetly magnificent and so was the story. Matter of opinion as well
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Old 2012-06-18, 14:23   Link #365
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The music I definitely liked from SEED and SEED Destiny. I liked the MS designs from SEED more, but SEED Destiny felt a lot lower on the originality scale because of such obvious copying from Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam stuff overall with a couple exceptions.

The main reason why the story was weak was really because of the flip-flopping between Shinn, and Kira as the "main character".
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Old 2012-06-24, 15:38   Link #366
Zulu Keita
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Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
The music I definitely liked from SEED and SEED Destiny. I liked the MS designs from SEED more, but SEED Destiny felt a lot lower on the originality scale because of such obvious copying from Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam stuff overall with a couple exceptions.

The main reason why the story was weak was really because of the flip-flopping between Shinn, and Kira as the "main character".
Seed Destiny did copy some things but every Gundam show is guilty of that, every show.

I agree about the Main character issue though, it just seemed odd the way the focus shifted like that, During some points I felt like Shinn was the lead while in others I felt like Athrun or Kira were the lead...
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Old 2012-06-24, 16:03   Link #367
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Originally Posted by Zulu Keita View Post
Seed Destiny did copy some things but every Gundam show is guilty of that, every show.

I agree about the Main character issue though, it just seemed odd the way the focus shifted like that, During some points I felt like Shinn was the lead while in others I felt like Athrun or Kira were the lead...
Yeah, I dislike Destiny, even it's mobile suits but I didn't have a real problem with copying.

Honestly was far worse having such a close First Gundam to RX-78-2 coming right off of OO and O Gundam. Also Destiny like SEED before it had great music.
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Old 2012-06-24, 17:44   Link #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulu Keita View Post
Seed Destiny did copy some things but every Gundam show is guilty of that, every show.
Of course there will be similar things as an original/previous series, but SEED Destiny pretty much blatantly copies stuff with the ZAKU Warrior, GOUF Ignited, DOM Trooper, and such right down to general names, appearances, functions, weapons, etc. To a lesser extent, the Akatsuki with the Hyaku Shiki + Strike/Providence, the Murasame with the Zeta, the Destroy Gundam with the Big Zam + Psyco Gundam, and so on. And then ending it by pretty much copy/pasting the Freedom, Justice, and Providence, but with slightly different coloring and tweaks here and there and it just gives off a vibe of laziness that I just can't shake.

Not like how SEED with the GINN, CGUE, GuAIZ, and other MS were obviously influenced by the Zaku II and other UC-era MS, but at least they kept their own original identity that set them apart. That's what made their designs more appealing to me.
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Old 2012-09-24, 00:28   Link #369
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
most enjoyable-least enjoyable:
gs
gsd
turn a
gw+ew
gx
victory

haven't seen:
msg, z, g

a quarter of the way through:
zz
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
01. SEED
02. 0080: War in the Pocket
03. MS IGLOO: The Hidden One Year War
04. G
05. SEED Destiny
06. Wing: Endless Waltz
07. Wing
08. Gundam
09. Zeta
10. X
11. ZZ
12. Turn A
13. Victory
14. Char's Counterattack
15. All the SD series, SEED Astray promos, and Evolve
16. The 08th MS Team
17. 0083: Stardust Memory
18. F91
Looking at 2 previous rankings I made, it's obvious that a rewatch or two had change some of my opinions.

So, having not watched any of these shows in a long time (other than SEED due to the Remaster), this is the only ranking I can give currently after having just watched the final episode of AGE:

From most enjoyable to least:


SEED (Original, After Phase, SE, Remaster)
0080
Stargazer/MS IGLOO (All three IGLOO OVAs)
G/Destiny (Original, Final Plus, SE)


AGE/00 (among other unlisted Gundam shows)


Gunpla Builders/Evolve/SD (Various SD shows)
F91/0083/08th MS Team


Someday, I'll have to rewatch these shows again (except probably the bottom 3).
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Old 2012-09-24, 09:40   Link #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
Of course there will be similar things as an original/previous series, but SEED Destiny pretty much blatantly copies stuff with the ZAKU Warrior, GOUF Ignited, DOM Trooper, and such right down to general names, appearances, functions, weapons, etc. To a lesser extent, the Akatsuki with the Hyaku Shiki + Strike/Providence, the Murasame with the Zeta, the Destroy Gundam with the Big Zam + Psyco Gundam, and so on. And then ending it by pretty much copy/pasting the Freedom, Justice, and Providence, but with slightly different coloring and tweaks here and there and it just gives off a vibe of laziness that I just can't shake.

Not like how SEED with the GINN, CGUE, GuAIZ, and other MS were obviously influenced by the Zaku II and other UC-era MS, but at least they kept their own original identity that set them apart. That's what made their designs more appealing to me.
Well SEED had much more time in development while Destiny was rushed out the door because of SEED hype and demand. So what did you expect them to do in such a short time? They didn't even have the ability to get the mid to final parts of Destiny's story done right when the clock was ticking.
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Old 2012-09-24, 11:00   Link #371
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UC Era Gundam from 0079 ~ 0100. The day Zeon surrendered is the day UC ended for me. I don't care much for F91 or Victory.

Nobody, and definitely no antagonists in subsequent series (AU or otherwise) had the flair Zeon had. They were truly good antagonists.

Besides, you will never get this:



Turn A - Truly enjoyable. It was a Gundam series with heart, and lots of it. Too bad audiences couldn't be more receptive to the titular Gundam.

SEED/DESTINY - Lots of likable characters here. Its unfortunate DESTINY suffered the way it did.

00 - Despite having a wooden hero, other characters and the plot make up for it. Oh, the movie was good too. It was a very well depicted last stand.

- Tak (And, here is hoping Sunrise would animate Gaia Gear)
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Old 2012-09-26, 00:42   Link #372
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Jupiter Empire and Zanscare made Zeon look good :trollface
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Old 2012-09-26, 12:20   Link #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esg View Post
Jupiter Empire and Zanscare made Zeon look good :trollface
Not really, IMO. The incidents with the Jupiter Empire and Zanscare Empire were actually pretty isolated. So far, no conflict in the Universal Century compares to the size of the One Year War against the Principality of Zeon, which could be seen as the equivalent to World War II while the Jupiter/Zanscare Empire conflicts could be seen more like the Korean or Vietnam Wars.

Sure they had plans to commit atrocities, but a lot weren't carried out or were stopped before they could do any real damage. Zeon, however, gassed an entire colony for the sole purpose of dropping it and forced out citizens of another just to turn it into a one-shot colony laser, and the effects Zeon had reverberated for as long as the UC 0110s with the Mars Zeon/Oldsmobile Army conflict. Since then, you had the Delaz Fleet drop a colony on Earth, the first Neo Zeon drop a colony on Earth, and then the second Neo Zeon dropping asteroids with similar damage as hitting it with a colony and almost wiping out all life on Earth.
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Old 2012-09-26, 13:09   Link #374
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Jupiter Empire and Zanscare made Zeon look good :trollface
Well, RX-78GP04G Gerbera said a lot of things I wanted to say, but here goes.

No future enemies of the Federation ever matched the sheer tenacity, resourcefulness and ingenuity of the Zeon movement even after the Principality was defeated in the One Year war.

Haman Karn herself was able to fuel an ongoing internal conflict within the Federation and then intervened to escalate an existing dilemma even further (and she started off with nothing more than 1 asteroid and 30,000 men). Then, she even managed to invade Earth once more. This occurred all the while Zeon technology was improving by leaps and bounds, including the New Type-exclusive psychoframe systems. Hell, the Nu Gundam was only made possible because Anaheim Electronics managed to get hold of psychoframe technology provided by none other than Char himself!

As RX-78GP04G Gerbera mentioned, there is much to said about Zeon tenacity. This included the Delaz Fleet and Char's Counterattack. Even during the Laplace Conflict, Zeon remnants had been hiding on Earth for decades and had absolutely no problems going out with a bang fighting in utterly outclassed ZAKU Is. And they did pretty damn well.

Now, if Gaia Gear is to be taken into account, then the Zeon movement continued well into the UC200s, post F91 and post Victory. But guess who finally got the last laugh...

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2012-09-26 at 13:22.
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Old 2012-09-26, 15:30   Link #375
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You act like almost nuking and vaporizing the earth with a colony Laser isn't impressive

Along with making all of earths populace under mental domination in Zanscares case
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Old 2012-09-26, 16:19   Link #376
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Doesn't change the fact that Zanscare and Jupiter Empire were limited conflicts. Almost all official sources detailing the UC-era would tell you that the Federation-Zeon war was the singular most devastating conflict ever experienced by humanity.

And the Federation was hardly the incompetent lot of later events. Most of Earth's post UC100 adversaries were a little more than Zeon wannabes who neither accumulated enough threat to instigate a complete mobilization of the Federation nor bounced back from defeat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esg View Post
You act like almost nuking and vaporizing the earth with a colony Laser isn't impressive
The Zeon already did that multiple times. Some of those attempts (& successes) occur when they were at their weakest. Lets also not kid ourselves either, the Colony Laser was a Zeon idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esg View Post
Along with making all of earths populace under mental domination in Zanscares case
Impressive for sure, but why should you force Zeon to their standards when the objectives were different for both factions? Besides, the Angel Halo was far more trouble than its worth. Just because you decided to go a long-winded way to get something done does not make it better.

Haman declared quite clearly in Zeta, if she wanted to wipe Earth off the map, she would have showered nuclear weapons on it. Why would that be any less effective than the Angel Halo?

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2012-09-26 at 21:25.
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Old 2012-09-26, 19:22   Link #377
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Nothing new in terms of nukes. Nukes were used by both the Federation AND Zeon during the One Week War in the early stages of the One Year War which is what lead to the creation of the Antarctic Treaty which banned the use of nukes, gassing/dropping colonies, and other such forms of mass destruction/genocide for the rest of the war (and is still used as an attempted shield after at times).

Of course, we also had the GP02A's atomic bazooka used on the Naval Review, we had nukes used again by the Federation (though a limited supply of "antiques" that were obtained by Mirai's former fiance) to try to destroy Axis, and also used by the second Neo Zeon (stolen from Luna II) in an attempt to create global radioactive contamination along with Axis' impact.

We're not saying that the Jupiter/Zanscare Empire's attempts are SO much "weaker" than Zeon, but that if you compare them in scale to the Principality of Zeon as a whole (including remnants after the One Year War), both of them, even together, are small, isolated conflicts that were still effectively halted by merely a small portion of the Earth Federation (the forces we see in Crossbone Gundam and Victory Gundam are hardly the entire EFSF while Zeon had the attention of ALL of the Federation on all of Earth AND in space) and an independent group trying to do what the Federation initially failed to do in trying to stop the opposing force (the new Crossbone Vanguard for Jupiter and the League Militaire for Zanscare).

Both of such forces of the independent groups also being, compared to the opposing force, much smaller in pretty much every way, which is what leads to the "quality over quantity" thinking that smaller groups tend to have compared to the larger and usually only having the backing of said small portion of the Earth Federation while the majority either wants to stay out of the conflict or simply lack the capability to do anything in the first place and give up too easily.
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Old 2012-09-27, 00:38   Link #378
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Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
Not really, IMO. The incidents with the Jupiter Empire and Zanscare Empire were actually pretty isolated. So far, no conflict in the Universal Century compares to the size of the One Year War against the Principality of Zeon, which could be seen as the equivalent to World War II while the Jupiter/Zanscare Empire conflicts could be seen more like the Korean or Vietnam Wars.
By good I meant by morally. As in being more malicious then Zeon

I'm kind of debating this cause I'm bored
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Old 2012-09-27, 05:44   Link #379
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Zeon wasn't really evil, they were just fed up with being treated like trash by the Feds and pushed back when the Feds pushed them. The difference is the Feds weren't' prepared when the much smaller Zeon pushed back with new technology in the form of Mobile Suits.
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Old 2012-09-27, 11:32   Link #380
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1.) Zeon and its remnants (attempted to) committed many heinous acts during their period. As mentioned, most of the Jupiter/Zanscare Empire's attempts were thwarted. All that's left is what they did within their own boundaries like the Middle Age-style beheadings for intimidation.

Others were simply psycho like Katejina, lol.


2.) The original Republic of Zeon headed by Zeon Zum Deikum wasn't evil for sure and a lot of the soldiers, of course, but the Principality of Zeon and those more fanatical followers couldn't care less about "independence" from the Federation in any noble sense. All they cared about was killing them off because they're their obstacle in establishing themselves as the new ruling class and all they want is a total dictatorship over everything. The Principality only used "independence" and whatnot as propaganda to gain support for their cause.
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