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View Poll Results: Total Eclipse - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 28 42.42%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 24.24%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 16.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 12.12%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 4.55%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-24, 00:46   Link #61
grevierr
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Originally Posted by yankky5 View Post
Alright lets leave that mentality talk lets just say Its not anime's fault but the guy who directed this!! period . Now can we move on to somthing more interesting please

@silvance just for reference where do you know those characters anyway only half assed answers from muv luv wiki
Which characters btw, me and a few other guys are trying to correct this. Except for the TE ones, which have anime only people being shown.
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Old 2012-09-24, 01:36   Link #62
Timsel
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Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
Also, this Eishi looks very familiar... I'm trying to collect my thoughts at the moment, but I swear I saw her somewhere before.

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I think it was lieutenant Amamia - Wight Fang-2 and Yui`s second-in-command and friend. She had appeared in first episode of 1 chapter of TE novel and in VN too.

By the way, what the heck russian tanks doing in Japan in 2000
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Old 2012-09-24, 01:59   Link #63
Triple_R
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Yuuya was indeed very badass in this episode... but I also agree with SoldierOfDarkness.

This might be the slowest-moving rescue operation I have ever watched in all of fiction.

You are surrounded on virtually all sides by hordes of BETA, one of you is badly injured, you have only one nearby ally, and you have time to argue and blush over how you address each other? Seriously, Yuuya and Yui?

Look, I get that the anime wants Yui to be a cute tsundere and everything, but can you please save this for after you make your getaway?
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Old 2012-09-24, 02:09   Link #64
Eclipze
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I found it strange that Stella did not engage the Fort Class until it had attacked Yuuya, considering that she did not move from her position on the watch tower. I would understand that the comms weren't working during that period so she couldn't warn Yuuya about it, but she has view over the base from there, so there is not reason why she didn't spot and engage the Fort Class beforehand.
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Old 2012-09-24, 05:53   Link #65
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The blonde chick killed the fort class so easily that makes me wonder why are they special again. Someone said that they were apc ( troops transporters) but I didnít see any come from there or inside them.

There was some other battle, somewhere, at the same time. Donít know why they donít go back to the base to live and fight another day. The mentality of modern wars says that withdraw is not a coward action. The funniest thing is that it seems that the fort class is not so difficult to kill and there isnít a laser class around. So they gave up their lifeís and expensive mecha for nothing. Even if that place is very important, you canít do anything if you are overrun. Probably I am thinking too much about this since no one was over watching them but the squadronís leaders should know moreÖ
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Old 2012-09-24, 06:34   Link #66
Silvance
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Originally Posted by yankky5 View Post
Alright lets leave that mentality talk lets just say Its not anime's fault but the guy who directed this!! period . Now can we move on to somthing more interesting please

@silvance just for reference where do you know those characters anyway only half assed answers from muv luv wiki

Sure thing. Shall we talk about how Yui was insanely cute when she affectionately called Yuuya's name with great concern? Mai Nakahara's voice is just divine in that part.

Are you asking whether I've never read the actual material, and just used secondhand information from the ML wiki as a basis for my previous responses?

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Originally Posted by Timsel View Post
I think it was lieutenant Amamia - Wight Fang-2 and Yui`s second-in-command and friend. She had appeared in first episode of 1 chapter of TE novel and in VN too.
Cool. Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it, Timsel.
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Old 2012-09-24, 06:57   Link #67
yankky5
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lol yui moe meter sky rocketed in one ep this was really a moe epic in yui's case
anyway its the actual material or something thats close to a summary about the LN or VN (i dont want to know what happend in the game) that Im asking but rather how do you guys have confidence that the muv luv original MC (dont know his name) will wipe yuuya's ass in a TSF show down??

@grevier Right now I'm curious about the background of the scarlet twins wiki gave little info, yes I checked her thread and the only thing i got was talk about lesbians and who's "kyoko-sama" is she another alternative character if so what version
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Last edited by yankky5; 2012-09-24 at 07:15.
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Old 2012-09-24, 08:49   Link #68
Chaos2Frozen
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I chalk all of those complaints down to "REALLY doing all they can to NOT show as many fight scenes as possible" =_=


...Seriously, is this the same Satelight that did Macross and Aquarion ?
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Old 2012-09-24, 09:16   Link #69
Sheba
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Must be the Satelight that served us Moretsu. WITH EVEN LESS BUDGET!
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Old 2012-09-24, 10:37   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
I found it strange that Stella did not engage the Fort Class until it had attacked Yuuya, considering that she did not move from her position on the watch tower. I would understand that the comms weren't working during that period so she couldn't warn Yuuya about it, but she has view over the base from there, so there is not reason why she didn't spot and engage the Fort Class beforehand.
if u beleave something can be avoided u avoid it and aim for the things that can do the most damage now like graplers and destroyers while saving ammo but why only one fort the same thing hAPPEND IN EP 2 ... damn caps lock
it was after yuuya got hit that stella killed it
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Old 2012-09-24, 11:34   Link #71
Eclipze
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Originally Posted by black knight iust View Post
if u beleave something can be avoided u avoid it and aim for the things that can do the most damage now like graplers and destroyers while saving ammo but why only one fort the same thing hAPPEND IN EP 2 ... damn caps lock
it was after yuuya got hit that stella killed it
Stella was supposed to look out for Yuuya and take out possible threats for him, which is why she took on high grounds to snipe down enemies rather than following behind him on the grounds. It feels rather dumb to wait till AFTER he gets hit by the Fort Class to engage it, leaving him with a seriously damaged suit that resulted in the situation we see this episode...
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Old 2012-09-24, 11:45   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
Stella was supposed to look out for Yuuya and take out possible threats for him, which is why she took on high grounds to snipe down enemies rather than following behind him on the grounds. It feels rather dumb to wait till AFTER he gets hit by the Fort Class to engage it, leaving him with a seriously damaged suit that resulted in the situation we see this episode...
it also doesnt make sense to get hit by something when it could have been avoided most likly she assumed he could handel it
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Old 2012-09-24, 11:57   Link #73
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Reposting after some edits. Seriously...

Watched the ep this morning, unable to reply to any posts until now thanks to my iPad being derp - for some reason it can't post on Asuki, but it can read. And it used to be able to do both before upgrading to iOS 6.

Generally speaking, I have no major issues with the ep. All in all, I think it was well done, and served to highlight the drama, and the central theme of Muv-Luv, which is that the god of that universe is the Demon Murphy.

I rather liked Yui's defrosting and embarrassed deredere.

While some may wish to compare the relative skill levels of Takeru and Yuuya, without going into details I'll note that it's explicitly stated that Yuuya is seeing combat for the first time. All things considered, Yuuya is IMO doing quite well, for someone whose primary forte is not combat. And I was rather impressed with how he went for mobility kills on those Destroyers - sure, the head and body are protected by the shell, but not the legs, and if you can take the legs down, the Destroyer's stuck. I'm facepalming at not thinking of this earlier.

Also, he deserves points for not giving up, even though 94 Second is getting beaten to scrap and practically everything is going wrong for him.

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Originally Posted by Kmos View Post
It was a very good epi, but few things bothered me. He didn't destroy the core, makes Yui repeat herself when they just mentioned use of exterior mic, fort class went down fast (more screen time!), and where are the freakin' laser class? It's like they're incredibly shy. If Yuuya dies it would be closer to excellent, but yea, have feeling Zhar battalion will swoop in and... Also agree on posts of how slow this rescue is, someone should drop out, weakeast link, goodbye.
He didn't destroy the core because it's a critical part of the railgun - he wants to salvage something from this debacle, and if he can't save the railgun, the core is the next best thing.

As for making Yui repeat herself simplest explanation is either 1) he can't believe she's being deredere; or two, as the cockpit block is open, the external mic is disabled.

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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
No Stella simply stated that she didn't want to waste fuel and ammo which brings to my first point in that Yuuya wasted a lot of time having the heart to heart chat with Yui. In a scenario like that you need to GET OUT OF THERE ASAP. The second he destroyed the gun, he should've grabbed the module and ran the hell out of there rather than acting cool in front of Yui which gave the BETA time to close in on him.

Plus it didn't sound like they were critical on fuel. She simply stated "yo, let's use this taxiway so we can save some fuel." It wasn't, "We're low on fuel, if we use the taxiway we'll be able to get out"
This is an inference of mine, but as I recall the Harrier burns more fuel in a hovering takeoff, compared to STOVL, hence why Brit carriers had the ski jump, which Americans didn't use (though they do practice STOVL when launching from Wasp and Tarawa-class amphibs, and will do so on the new America-class). My guess is that a gradual veryical takeoff would end up using up more of his limited fuel then a jump thrust, which is why he went for that option... And in addition to that, Yui experienced Gravity-induced Loss of Consciousness (G-LOC) (which further suggests excess of 9Gs was experienced in that brief hop - the human body is not rated to take high Gs for prolonged periods), so he realised that jump thrusting was not going to be ideal. It then became moot once his engines got damaged.

Notice that in Stella's unit, Yui maintains consciousness, and doesn't black out, as the conventional takeoff has less g-forces acting on her body.

As for why they don't do a gradual vertical takeoff like a helo, I have a feeling they probably can't do that; on the Harrier and the F-35B, the engine's thrust is diverted downwards at the center of the fuselage (Harrier) and from the centerish and aft (F-35B). Contrast this to the thruster placement on TSFs, which are angled more for STOVL takeoff, moving forward and above -hence jump thrust.

Furthermore, helicopters achieve lift in a different manner: the rotor blades are wings and generate lift and downforce, which is spread over a wider area and can thus be more easily adjusted, compared to the two jet engines on a TSF. Haven't done this for real, but I've played Wings Over Europe and tried to massage an F-15's engines to do a gradual vertical climb; not possible unless I hit afterburner, at which point it shoots up into the sky, accelerating in vertical climb. In Take on Helicopters, vertical climb is a lot easier to do, since my climb rate can be adjusted by the collective, since there's constant lift being generated over a larger area.

tl;dr, TSFs appear optimised for STOVL and less so at VTOL, though it certainly seems possible to VTOL. (If you can STOVL you can VTOL, but you may not necessarily be as good at the latter as you are the former.)

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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
I was pointing out that because Yuuya was trying to act cool in front of Yui he put both him, his teammate, and her's life in danger by making it much harder to escape.

He's a freaking soldier for crying out loud, not some hot-shot rookie, he should know better.
He's a hotshot pilot with an attitude problem, thanks to being an expy of Maverick. Just sayin'. Doesn't excuse the fact that Jesus H. Christ the two of them were idiots again.

Then again, it is a conclusively proven fact that the higher brain functions of young male humans tend to receive a variable degree of impairment in the presence of an attractive female of the species.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Yuuya was indeed very badass in this episode... but I also agree with SoldierOfDarkness.

This might be the slowest-moving rescue operation I have ever watched in all of fiction.

You are surrounded on virtually all sides by hordes of BETA, one of you is badly injured, you have only one nearby ally, and you have time to argue and blush over how you address each other? Seriously, Yuuya and Yui?

Look, I get that the anime wants Yui to be a cute tsundere and everything, but can you please save this for after you make your getaway?
This. So much. Talking while bandaging her wound was one thing, but this? Then again, I guess they were feeling they had a larger margin of safety than they really had, and probably forgot that Yui rigged the core module to attract BETA.

Then again, I kinda have a feeling they're both balls at this whole interpersonal relationship thing. They're made for each other.

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Originally Posted by rafael1932 View Post
The blonde chick killed the fort class so easily that makes me wonder why are they special again. Someone said that they were apc ( troops transporters) but I didn’t see any come from there or inside them.
Well, to be fair, it appears that Stella salvoed all her 120mm guns at that Fort-class, and relied on wound trauma to kill it. I have to say, she's a lot more successful in that, compared to Price and Zhakaev.

Fort-class are transports, and usually they're carrying them in their guts. My guess is that part of that horde of BETA we saw escorting the Fort in the last episode are the Fort's dismounts.

The problem with Forts are that they are fuckton huge, and can swat you outta the sky with their stingers, whereupon their dismount Tank-class will then swarm you and eat you alive. If their stinger doesn't kill you first. If they catch you off-guard, they can kill you in a single strike, which almost happened to Yuuya. If you can attack from outside the range of their stinger, and actually see them coming, it's not too bad.

Quote:
There was some other battle, somewhere, at the same time. Don’t know why they don’t go back to the base to live and fight another day. The mentality of modern wars says that withdraw is not a coward action. The funniest thing is that it seems that the fort class is not so difficult to kill and there isn’t a laser class around. So they gave up their life’s and expensive mecha for nothing. Even if that place is very important, you can’t do anything if you are overrun. Probably I am thinking too much about this since no one was over watching them but the squadron’s leaders should know more…
Assuming that you're referring to Kyoko-sama and Hydra Flight getting killed, it's called YAMATO DAMASHII. Chalk it down to that weird Honor Before Reason the Japanese mentality manifests, which sometimes results in really stupid things for the sake of their honor. IRL has a great many examples of this, without getting into the whole minefield that is this Alternative world. (Yes, that pun was deliberate. ) Note what Yui says in Episode 11.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I'd speculate that perhaps Kyoko-sama was worried that relocating, even to dodge the Fort-classes, would leave a hole in their defensive line, which the BETA would exploit by swarming in and overwhelming everyone - from what I see, Hydra 1 is trying to keep things as an orderly tactical withdrawl, instead of degenerating into a rout (aka SQUAD BROKEN for all Warhammer 40K/Dawn of War/Company of Heroes players out there).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
Stella was supposed to look out for Yuuya and take out possible threats for him, which is why she took on high grounds to snipe down enemies rather than following behind him on the grounds. It feels rather dumb to wait till AFTER he gets hit by the Fort Class to engage it, leaving him with a seriously damaged suit that resulted in the situation we see this episode...
Giving her the benefit of the doubt, it's possible she didn't have an angle on a guaranteed killshot until after the Fort hit Yuuya and then moved in for the coup de grace.
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Last edited by Wild Goose; 2012-09-24 at 13:29. Reason: Some typos. Unlimited Typo Works.
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Old 2012-09-24, 12:08   Link #74
Methuselah
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Can anyone tell me what exactly happen in the novel of this episode that fails to mention?
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Old 2012-09-24, 12:47   Link #75
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One thing about this episode that I think was deliberate, but wasn't effectively communicated was the sense of event timing.

My impression was that Stella's notice to Yuuya of the incoming BETA was the same time as when she first caught them on the radar.

However, the way the timing of events played in the anime out made it look like Stella delayed reporting, while Yuuya/Yui were doing their in-cockpit tsuntsunderedere thing.

Not saying it's a good thing, because that's a flaw with the presentation itself, but I feel like saying Yuuya/Yui were 'slow' is kind of the wrong way to put it. Sure, the urgency wasn't there, but they were acting well-within their expected time, given that the 15 minutes they've allocated was for transport the Railgun itself, which probably would've taken more time than to destroy it.

The sudden pace and size of the BETA swarm was simply much larger and faster than Yuuya/Stella anticipated.
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Old 2012-09-24, 13:14   Link #76
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Badass Yuuya was badass
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Old 2012-09-24, 13:20   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Ryu View Post
Badass Yuuya was badass
I agree, but I won't deny that he's being kind of reckless at the same time, charging at all those beta at once. I was wondering why he didn't at least think of some kind of escape plan, even if chances for escape aren't good at all.
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Old 2012-09-24, 13:49   Link #78
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He didn't destroy the core because it's a critical part of the railgun - he wants to salvage something from this debacle, and if he can't save the railgun, the core is the next best thing.
Why do the BETA want it? Are they capable of making a countermeasure to the gun?

Quote:
Assuming that you're referring to Kyoko-sama and Hydra Flight getting killed, it's called YAMATO DAMASHII. Chalk it down to that weird Honor Before Reason the Japanese mentality manifests, which sometimes results in really stupid things for the sake of their honor. IRL has a great many examples of this, without getting into the whole minefield that is this Alternative world. (Yes, that pun was deliberate. ) Note what Yui says in Episode 11.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I'd speculate that perhaps Kyoko-sama was worried that relocating, even to dodge the Fort-classes, would leave a hole in their defensive line, which the BETA would exploit by swarming in and overwhelming everyone - from what I see, Hydra 1 is trying to keep things as an orderly tactical withdrawl, instead of degenerating into a rout (aka SQUAD BROKEN for all Warhammer 40K/Dawn of War/Company of Heroes players out there).
Seems weird though that they put the tanks and armys' lives at a higher priority. I mean I'm pretty sure that TSF is a lot more valuable than half a dozen tanks.

Quote:
Giving her the benefit of the doubt, it's possible she didn't have an angle on a guaranteed killshot until after the Fort hit Yuuya and then moved in for the coup de grace.
Is there a specific angle you have to aim at in order to hit it?

The thing is literally an elephant wading in a blade of grass so I don't see how anyone could let such a giant thing sneak up on you. That and while they're low on ammo such a thing should be a high priority target.

Quote:
Not saying it's a good thing, because that's a flaw with the presentation itself, but I feel like saying Yuuya/Yui were 'slow' is kind of the wrong way to put it. Sure, the urgency wasn't there, but they were acting well-within their expected time, given that the 15 minutes they've allocated was for transport the Railgun itself, which probably would've taken more time than to destroy it.
Geeze it's like I stirred up a hornet's nest.

I was simply stating that right after Yuuya blows up the gun and retrieves the module he should've left immediately rather than just act "cool". By the time Stella warns him that BETA were closing in on the hanger he barely had time to react. He knew beforehand that the BETA were already closing in and Stella told him to hurry up.

That's all I'm going to say and leave it at that.
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Old 2012-09-24, 14:39   Link #79
black knight iust
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Quote:
Why do the BETA want it? Are they capable of making a countermeasure to the gun?
the beta probly want it due to a certin resorce that most likly went into its development
and if memory servs correctly it was yokohama base that had a hand in its development and as many know eveything that has to do with that base is odd in some way

now that i think about it couldnt when they were taking off try to use i beleave it was called draft to give yuuya a speed boost knowing his engine was damaged
now getting another look at when the shurinai was smashed into the wall the eyes were blinking

i get the feeling zhar battalian will be impessed with yuuyas damage and kills
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Old 2012-09-24, 17:42   Link #80
erakk
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Isn't the BETA attracted to high technology?
Thats why the swarm TSF etc.

Wild Goose did an amazing job on his post. I got tired of arguing.
/popcorn
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