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View Poll Results: Total Eclipse - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 28 42.42%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 24.24%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 16.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 12.12%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 4.55%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-24, 17:42   Link #81
grylsyjaeger
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BETA don't "want" the gun. They're attracted to electronics and I'd imagine the control unit for a weapon as powerful as that would be quite more attractive than even a TSF.


I enjoyed the episode in all honesty. Yui was bad ass in the opening section, "zenki! Tsuzuke!!"

Ah...

And I do smile at Yuuya and Yui's exchanges.
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Old 2012-09-24, 18:05   Link #82
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Somewhat disappointed how fast the fort class went down, was expecting it to have a very strong armor. Nevertheless for me it's the best episode so far.
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Old 2012-09-24, 18:09   Link #83
black knight iust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaihan View Post
Somewhat disappointed how fast the fort class went down, was expecting it to have a very strong armor. Nevertheless for me it's the best episode so far.
thier not that strong

and if i remember correctly beta go after things of higher value too them seeing as what thier objective is
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Old 2012-09-24, 19:13   Link #84
rafael1932
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Well if i was yuuya i would do this:

. pick up weapon ( the gun is small and he does not need that thing that he puts behind the back when he fires the gun).

. This does save time

. get the fuck out of there by going in the opposite site of the invasion( if the main invasion comes from the left side, he would run to the right side). If necessary do that jump that hurts the girl. Note that he still has bullets and may call for help to the blonde chick. So she would fly around yuuya and both of them could shoot to the guys smaller numbers than the other side where the main invasion is. If the railgun does not allow yuuya to shoot, he could simple drop the gun so the blonde chick would pick up and use it ( the normal gun, not the railgun).

.but the main point is that a trained soldier would run as fast as possible. I would even understand if he let the weapon behind just to save the girl it is against the rules but a smart action nevertheless

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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Fort-class are transports, and usually they're carrying them in their guts. My guess is that part of that horde of BETA we saw escorting the Fort in the last episode are the Fort's dismounts.
Hummm, it would be better if he was carrying a lot of them and they would jump right after his death. Something like you kill this one and you have to worry with 20 more beta after.
Question what you do next ? will you kill him or wait for a better time which means that you have to dodge all the time and lose focus.

Otherwise is like he is going to face his own death and the alien faction is going to lose soldiers / resources for nothing . I know that the blonde chick is an elite soldier but I think that any soldier is able to do what she did. She simple has to point in that point and shoot; the mecha does all the rest. Even if she used more weapons, the normal mecha soldiers will achieve the same result with more time shouting in that spot of course they would shoot and run until they killed him.

edit: sniff, i miss the laser class
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Old 2012-09-24, 20:14   Link #85
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Damn, now this is the MuvLuv that I knew and love. Can't wait to see more development and BETA ass kicking.
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Old 2012-09-24, 20:24   Link #86
zRichard
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>Gun is small, can be carried by a single TSF.

The gun is not small. Yuuya said that they would need both the Shiranui and the Strike Eagle to carry the weapon. If I remember correctly, it was because of the fuel economy.

Yui rejected that plan because she prioritized their chances of survival.

>Opposite side of invasion

And what if the opposite side is the ocean? They need to go to where everyone was evacuated, not just a deserted place with no BETA. A big reason why Yui rejected carrying the weapon around was because of this, they might have to fight to escape.
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Old 2012-09-24, 20:30   Link #87
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Why do the BETA want it? Are they capable of making a countermeasure to the gun?
erakk and gryslajaeger nailed it on the head: as stated in Episode 11, BETA are attracted to technology. It's part of why missiles, nukes and smart weapons aren't effective on this battlefield, as Laser-class assigns targeting priority based on how high tech the target is.

Quote:
Seems weird though that they put the tanks and armys' lives at a higher priority. I mean I'm pretty sure that TSF is a lot more valuable than half a dozen tanks.
Oh, I agree, but then think about it: like Kyoko says, their job is essentially First In Last Out. And it's more of a morale thing - you don't leave your allies to be devoured. It's like the whole No Man Left Behind ethos in the US military.

Consider the last stand of Shugart and Gordan. By all rights they should have abandoned Durant's crew, but they went in anyway.

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Is there a specific angle you have to aim at in order to hit it?

The thing is literally an elephant wading in a blade of grass so I don't see how anyone could let such a giant thing sneak up on you. That and while they're low on ammo such a thing should be a high priority target.
Do note that I wrote guaranteed killshot, not just hitting the Fort anywhere, and that this was a speculative possibility to give Stella the benefit of the doubt. Addressing your point, the issue is not whether the Fort-class could have been hit, but whether it could have been hit in a location that would guarantee a kill.

There are two main schools of thought regarding how to kill someone: ammunition type and shot placement. The former assumes you have the right ammo for the job, you can kill something; the latter assumes you need to hit the target in the right place to kill it. The Modern Technique, as codified by Col. Jeff Cooper, states that both elements are necessary: a large round will do nothing if it does not hit anything vital, and a round that is on target is not effective if it is too small and requires multiple follow-on shots. (A prime example of this is the Mozambique Drill paired with a .45 ACP pistol, preferably an M1911 of some sort: two rounds upper torso, one round to the head. Excellent demonstration by Jim Zubiena here.)

What that means is that because the Fort-class is a large target, you can't just shoot everywhere and expect it to be a fatal hit: the general rule of thumb is that the larger the body that is being shot, the more it is able to survive the trauma of a bullet wound, as the kinetic impact is spread out over the body, and a larger body will carry more blood than a smaller body. Note the larger caliber of rifle cartridges used in hunting rifles, compared to assault rifles or pistols/submachine guns.

Notice where Stella's shots land: she fires six 120mm rounds at the head and shoulder, where major arteries are located, and the body of the Fort is large enough that that the rounds haven't fully exited by the time they detonate.

Quote:
Geeze it's like I stirred up a hornet's nest.
Aw, I'm having fun. So long as I'm at home, and not at work where my iPad is being derp.

Also, I'd just suggest that if you're quoting, particularly quoting multiple people, to use the quote post function; this will allow whoever you're responding to to zoom in more quickly on your replies, and not try to figure out who you're responding to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaihan View Post
Somewhat disappointed how fast the fort class went down, was expecting it to have a very strong armor. Nevertheless for me it's the best episode so far.
Like I said in that post above, shot placement. Taking six 120mm high explosive rounds to the head and shoulder was probably sufficient to cause massive wound trauma that resulted in death. Note that a shoulder hit can be dangerously fatal in humans, as it's easy to nick important arteries and bleed out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafael1932 View Post
Well if i was yuuya i would do this:

. pick up weapon ( the gun is small and he does not need that thing that he puts behind the back when he fires the gun).
To be fair, that's what he suggests, but the railgun isn't exactly small, and Yui is correct that it'll slow them down. Note that if he carries the railgun, he'll need both hands, and so can't use his Assault Cannon.

Quote:
. get the fuck out of there by going in the opposite site of the invasion( if the main invasion comes from the left side, he would run to the right side). If necessary do that jump that hurts the girl. Note that he still has bullets and may call for help to the blonde chick. So she would fly around yuuya and both of them could shoot to the guys – smaller numbers than the other side where the main invasion is. If the railgun does not allow yuuya to shoot, he could simple drop the gun so the blonde chick would pick up and use it ( the normal gun, not the railgun).
Problem is that they thought they had a margin of safety, but by the time Stella noticed the BETA swarming them, the BETA were moving too fast for them to react. Also, notice that the BETA begin their swarming immediately after the Core Module is exposed by Yuuya, and how they prioritize it over the rest of his TSF.

Quote:
.but the main point is that a trained soldier would run as fast as possible. I would even understand if he let the weapon behind just to save the girl – it is against the rules but a smart action nevertheless
True to a certain point, but Yuuya's a test pilot, which is what people keep forgetting. He doesn't have the same combat mindset that everyone else in Argos Flight has; his perspective is to bring back all the hardware in one piece.

Quote:
Hummm, it would be better if he was carrying a lot of them and they would jump right after his death. Something like you kill this one and you have to worry with 20 more beta after.
Question what you do next ? will you kill him or wait for a better time which means that you have to dodge all the time and lose focus.
Like I said, my guess is that the Fort deployed its dismounts just before hitting the base, for maximum concentration of force. The other, simpler reason is that they didn't have the budget to show Tank-class and Soldier-class dismounts crawling out of the Fort.

Quote:
Otherwise is like he is going to face his own death and the alien faction is going to lose soldiers / resources for nothing . I know that the blonde chick is an elite soldier but I think that any soldier is able to do what she did. She simple has to point in that point and shoot; the mecha does all the rest. Even if she used more weapons, the normal mecha soldiers will achieve the same result with more time shouting in that spot – of course they would shoot and run until they killed him.
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here... the whole point is that this is supposed to be a fast rescue of Yui and recovery of the Type-99 railgun. Stella isn't here to be racking up an insane killscore, she's here to provide overwatch and warn Yuuya. Snipers IRL don't fire at everything that moves; a lot of the time a sniper team observes, radios in intel, and calls airstrikes - Carlost Hathcock killed an NVA battalion with arty instead of his rifle, once.

Also, ammo's getting low - they can't afford to burn all their ammo here and not have any ammo incase they get jumped on their way to the rally point. Note how both of them are trying their best to be careful with their ammo, until Yuuya is left behind.

As for those who were complaining about Stella blowing up the fuel tank farm, I'll just note that while that place is storing all the fuel, it is not a gas station, and Stella and Yuuya would need to find a proper refuelling truck to refuel. And that's if they know how to refuel a TSF - they aren't ground crew.

Edit: Gah, ninjaed by zRichard. This is what I get for using Backlog Breaker.
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Old 2012-09-24, 20:54   Link #88
NoemiChan
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Hahahaha, best scene of Muv Luv!!! Yuuya, you just included the BETAs in your harem?!! You even made Yui cry!!!

Yui:"I accept that you love TSF but... but... but BETA too?!!!"
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Old 2012-09-24, 21:06   Link #89
greensoulreaper
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Hahahaha, best scene of Muv Luv!!! Yuuya, you just included the BETAs in your harem?!! You even made Yui cry!!!

Yui:"I accept that you love TSF but... but... but BETA too?!!!"
haha...BETAs in Yuuya's harem? That's a funny thought. How dare he cheat on Miss 94-second!
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Old 2012-09-24, 22:00   Link #90
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I probably sound harsh, but there was plenty of time for Stella to take aim at the Fort, since it walked in from the outside of the base rather than appear suddenly via underground or something. It just seems like bad writing for her to not engage such an imminent threat, with its slow movement pace PLUS long travel distance.

Its not like she was shown to be doing a good job at clearing the closest targets to Yuuya either, considering that he lost an arm to a "surprise" beta attack. Yuuya and Yui taking their time didn't help either, but still.
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Old 2012-09-24, 22:05   Link #91
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I think it can be agreed that generally Yuuya and Stella had the right ideas, but execution was a bit... Lacking.
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Old 2012-09-24, 22:38   Link #92
Silvance
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Originally Posted by grylsyjaeger View Post
I enjoyed the episode in all honesty. Yui was bad ass in the opening section, "zenki! Tsuzuke!!"
That, plus the grin on her face at the start of the episode left a long lasting impression. She really wanted to release everything that she pent up inside, and unleash her wrath against the BETA.
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Old 2012-09-24, 22:45   Link #93
black knight iust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Hahahaha, best scene of Muv Luv!!! Yuuya, you just included the BETAs in your harem?!! You even made Yui cry!!!

Yui:"I accept that you love TSF but... but... but BETA too?!!!"
thats hilariouse

Quote:
erakk and gryslajaeger nailed it on the head: as stated in Episode 11, BETA are attracted to technology. It's part of why missiles, nukes and smart weapons aren't effective on this battlefield, as Laser-class assigns targeting priority based on how high tech the target is.
if i remember correctly durning opp 21 they said they prioritize flyers first ground second
Quote:
haha...BETAs in Yuuya's harem? That's a funny thought. How dare he cheat on Miss 94-second!
hows he cheating hes trying too get away with the 94 second ..... the beta are yandere i think

next is zhar battalion to show up to the party
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Old 2012-09-24, 23:14   Link #94
greensoulreaper
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Originally Posted by black knight iust View Post
thats hilariouse


if i remember correctly durning opp 21 they said they prioritize flyers first ground second

hows he cheating hes trying too get away with the 94 second ..... the beta are yandere i think

next is zhar battalion to show up to the party
Ah you're right. But 94 second should take Yuuya to court for domestic abuse. Yuuya was too rough on his waifu. It lost an arm and a hand.
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Old 2012-09-24, 23:26   Link #95
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the animation production for this show still holds it back tremendously, but at least it's finally starting to heat up a little with this latest arc. I think we'll probably be seeing the last use of the rail gun at some point next episode because I don't see any other way Yuuya can get out of this mess.
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Old 2012-09-24, 23:27   Link #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Hahahaha, best scene of Muv Luv!!! Yuuya, you just included the BETAs in your harem?!! You even made Yui cry!!!

Yui:"I accept that you love TSF but... but... but BETA too?!!!"
Well if this a certain anime series which Transformable fighter jet , a song could turn the tide of war and Beta are cuddly clinging imouto type girls

Spoiler for Why Yui hime is getting jealous:
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Old 2012-09-24, 23:36   Link #97
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
the animation production for this show still holds it back tremendously, but at least it's finally starting to heat up a little with this latest arc. I think we'll probably be seeing the last use of the rail gun at some point next episode because I don't see any other way Yuuya can get out of this mess.
That'd be kinda difficult to happen, seeing as how Yuuya shot the railgun to pieces and the Core Module was devoured by Tank-class BETA.

My guess is that Latrova and Zhar arrive with the better part of twenty Su-27s and two Su-37s and bail his ass outta the fire.
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Old 2012-09-24, 23:54   Link #98
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Still using cumbersome and slow Tu-95s?


At least some jet bombers would be safer...
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Old 2012-09-24, 23:57   Link #99
Wild Goose
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500 knots isn't exactly a slow speed...
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Old 2012-09-25, 00:18   Link #100
black knight iust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greensoulreaper View Post
Ah you're right. But 94 second should take Yuuya to court for domestic abuse. Yuuya was too rough on his waifu. It lost an arm and a hand.
Spoiler for mayby:
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