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Old 2012-09-25, 19:17   Link #10641
summers
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God dammit, I have not looked at the spoilers, just the reaction to the spoilers and its making me go crazy. Its too bad it takes until friday for chapter to get scanslated.
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Old 2012-09-25, 20:09   Link #10642
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This is just like reading Bleach or Homestuck. Everytime something sufficiently bad happens, people panic and declare that the author is trolling. And I'm loving every minute of seeing the reactions.
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Old 2012-09-25, 23:21   Link #10643
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Originally Posted by Lupus753 View Post
This is just like reading Bleach or Homestuck. Everytime something sufficiently bad happens, people panic and declare that the author is trolling. And I'm loving every minute of seeing the reactions.
But but but...this is Nisio, may I remind you of the monogatari series
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Old 2012-09-25, 23:39   Link #10644
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If these spoilers are true, I'll be feeling extremely painful.
...and then I'll praise Nisio at how he manage to make me feel so miserable every single time.
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Old 2012-09-26, 03:38   Link #10645
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The latest TOC had Medaka Box placed in 6th - the highest its been all year ,
looks like its been on the rise in the rankings the last few weeks, lets hope that when the anime airs that it could go even higher..(though thats likely not going to happen )
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Old 2012-09-26, 06:52   Link #10646
summers
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God dammit I want to know what happened, but dont want to be spoiled, hurry up CXC!
You guys are talking about some trolling going on? Even though last chapter we saw A god like character get one-shotted. If that's not a troll then whatever is in those spoilers must be insane.

1. Medaka pwns in one page
2. This was all part of a plan and this guy is an illusion
3. Kumagawa oneshots(But then more people would be happy,so no)
4.He is of no threat and does not fight.
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Old 2012-09-26, 09:49   Link #10647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summers View Post
God dammit I want to know what happened, but dont want to be spoiled, hurry up CXC!
You guys are talking about some trolling going on? Even though last chapter we saw A god like character get one-shotted. If that's not a troll then whatever is in those spoilers must be insane.

1. Medaka pwns in one page
2. This was all part of a plan and this guy is an illusion
3. Kumagawa oneshots(But then more people would be happy,so no)
4.He is of no threat and does not fight.
Since you're being extra excited this week I'll humor you for a bit,
having seen the chapter, next week's chapter should be rather interesting.

Last edited by Kurosu; 2012-09-26 at 10:28.
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Old 2012-09-26, 10:04   Link #10648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valid View Post
The latest TOC had Medaka Box placed in 6th - the highest its been all year
It's true, it DOES work!
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Old 2012-09-26, 19:43   Link #10649
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It's true, it DOES work!
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More like it was the Jet-Black Wedding arc climax/ending. Accompanied with the revelation of Medaka's final strategy for the Shiritori game. If there was any chapter in that arc to get a high ranking, they could've chosen no better chapter than that one.

Of course, ratings for that entire arc were pretty terrible overall. Bottom 5 almost the entire way through, starting from pretty much the beginning; only to settle around 10th for two or three chapters just before the climax; and then only one chapter at all to make it into the upper ranges at number six with the ending. While we don't know for sure how this new arc is gonna turn out just yet, I'm expecting the first couple chapters to do quite well comparatively.
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Old 2012-09-26, 20:21   Link #10650
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
More like it was the Jet-Black Wedding arc climax/ending. Accompanied with the revelation of Medaka's final strategy for the Shiritori game. If there was any chapter in that arc to get a high ranking, they could've chosen no better chapter than that one.
You mean one of the worst chapters in the manga to date? Well, that's just about what I'd expect, really.
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Old 2012-09-26, 20:46   Link #10651
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That arc started out very well, promising, but soon declined into being horrible.

I have to agree, the end of the Jet-Black Wedding was one of the worst segments of the manga.
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Old 2012-09-26, 22:14   Link #10652
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I personally think that chapter was just placed rather than being what it really ranked, since Medaka is on the cover this week~
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Old 2012-09-26, 22:22   Link #10653
Sol Falling
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lol. The blatant disconnect between you guys' perceptions and the actual reception in Japan simply clearly shows that you don't really understand this manga. You don't understand its appeal, you don't understand its intentions, you don't even really understand the plot in terms of what's going on. Now, that isn't necessarily your fault; Nishio's stuff is always fairly convoluted in the first place and there are plenty of aspects of Medaka Box which might be said to be difficult to translate from Japanese. However, the joke that you guys would even presume to think that your highly subjective, ridiculously limited perspectives have any sort of objective weight on the quality of the series is plainly ridiculous.

Yeah, I can imagine you would think the Shiritori game was shit when you can't even be assed to pick up on and follow along the rules of a basic game of Shiritori. That doesn't say anything about the quality of the series, just your own complete lack of effort and ignorance.

If you can't even grasp the basic idea that a manga like Medaka Box isn't written for you, and that a high percentage of any supposed "shortcomings" you notice are actually your own inadequacies in being unable to comprehend the original intention and the native audience, then things are just hopeless for you.

Get over yourself, and scale back that judgemental personality. If something is (comparatively) well liked over in Japan, there's probably a significant reason for it, and you'd be well served trying to actually figure that reason out before you resort to "oh, the Japanese readers aren't exactly like me; they must be idiots" and start shitflinging.


Quote:
Originally Posted by [HearT] View Post
I personally think that chapter was just placed rather than being what it really ranked, since Medaka is on the cover this week~
Being featured on the cover isn't the same as having colour pages. Colour pages are basically when you get special pages within the magazine, and those are placed. It's often true that having the cover page corresponds to having the lead or center colour, but that isn't true in this case. Medaka Box and Gintama's rankings this week were their natural rankings.
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Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 40/5 :: Locodol 24/5 :: Yama no Susume 32/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2012-09-26, 23:17   Link #10654
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
If something is (comparatively) well liked over in Japan, there's probably a significant reason for it, and you'd be well served trying to actually figure that reason out before you resort to "oh, the Japanese readers aren't exactly like me; they must be idiots" and start shitflinging.
Trust me, brah. I already know the reason!

http://badluckexpert.files.wordpress...ox-3390269.jpg



I mean, why do you think Medaka Box's percentage of male readers far outweighs that of the female's. Haha!

I think the fap-stain speaks for it'self, really. Japan isn't know for it's acquired taste, which is part of the reason One-Piece is the highest selling manga there.

Though, you can consider this my unserious "theory". I have no idea for why the Jet-Black Wedding was liked other than the chance to see some fanservice.

But being more serious now:

Medaka Box went from being a developed, charming narrative with dynamic, evolving conflicts and characters...to one with little-to-no coherence, extreme convolutedness, shallow character development, extremely boring conflicts and absolutely no satisfying closure.

I thought this manga was awesome, until the quickly bogging down of the Jet-Black Wedding arc. Totally not what Nishio promised us after chapter 140.

Trying to pass off the current manga as something "so deep that you just can't get It", to me, is just ridiculous. I don't feel that way at all. The charming character development and interesting plots/conflicts this manga had has seemingly evaporated, unfortunately.

Maybe you're just reading too much into the manga, and substituting your own interpretation of the story instead of what's actually there, which is actually vapid and shallow? I've done it with several fiction, really. It's just a desire to see said work acheive it's full potential in our view.

But hey, that's just my opinion on this manga's current state of affairs.

~~~

What really concerns me is that you're clearly flustered and perturbed that two people are agreeing on said opinion. Even more so is that you accuse us of thinking our opinion is objective, when that clearly is ridiculous when dealing with fiction and I never said it was, yet you assumed I felt that way.

I don't know about you, but in the forums I visited, most agreed that the Jet-Black Bride Arc was utter shit. Well, true that there were no japanese readers there, but this isn't some obscure opinion that is completely unjustified simply because japanese readers continued to buy the manga. Or are you saying Japanese readers have reached some state of intellectual enlightenment or something? That seems far-fetched when they might or might not be reading the manga for the same reason you are.

Calm down. That rant was unescessary - I just don't view this manga like you do, that's no reason to insult someone's intelligence and call them "ignorant". Have some decorum, please. I don't see anyone insulting your intelligence due to your opinion.

Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2012-09-27 at 00:32.
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Old 2012-09-26, 23:25   Link #10655
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I can understand why you're frustrated Sol, but I think you're jumping into the other end of fallacious thinking. So just because you're not the intended audience means you're not allowed to judge its quality? Yes, I don't think insulting the Japanese for their tastes is very constructive in this instance, but it's not as if understanding the intentions of this manga will make people like it. Medaka Box is a manga worth analyzing and discussing, but that may not necessarily impact people liking it. Execution also plays a part. Sure, opinions of people on an anime forum aren't always the most well constructed, but it's still plays a part in viewing the series.

Geh, I must grudgingly admit you do stimulate discussion though.
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Old 2012-09-27, 00:41   Link #10656
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Trust me, brah. I already know the reason!

http://badluckexpert.files.wordpress...ox-3390269.jpg



I mean, why do you think Medaka Box's percentage of male readers far outweighs that of the female's. Haha!

I think the fap-stain speaks for it'self, really. Japan isn't know for it's acquired taste, which is part of the reason One-Piece is the highest selling manga there.
More wilful, judgemental ignorance. The "well-liked" chapter in question was the one corresponding with the latest decent ranking, namely the climax of the previous arc. Medaka Box's rankings historically have shown no particular correspondence with the level of fanservice.

Quote:
But being more serious now:

Medaka Box went from being a developed, charming narrative with dynamic, evolving conflicts and characters...to one with little-to-no coherence, extreme convolutedness, shallow character development, extremely boring conflicts and absolutely no satisfying closure.

I thought this manga was awesome, until the quickly bogging down of the Jet-Black Wedding arc. Totally not what Nishio promised us after chapter 140.

Trying to pass off the current manga as something "so deep that you just can't get It", to me, is just ridiculous. I don't feel that way at all. The charming character development and interesting plots/conflicts this manga had has seemingly evaporated, unfortunately.

Maybe you're just reading too much into the manga, and substituting your own interpretation of the story instead of what's actually there, which is actually vapid and shallow? I've done it with several fiction, really. It's just a desire to see said work acheive it's full potential in our view.

But hey, that's just my opinion on this manga's current state of affairs.
See, no, not really. I can see where that kind of issue influenced your point of view, because you obviously did really like where (you thought) the manga was going at one point in the past and then ended up disappointed (and also started jumping to crazy conclusions, imo, like the idea that Devil Style doesn't exist anymore). In that case you would probably be accurate to say that you read to much into it and had too high expectations, which weren't in line with the actual goal or intent of the manga. As a result of that burn, you're still sitting around complaining lately about how bad the manga is, when in reality it's just your emotional reaction to a severe and unfortunate misread of the direction the manga was going. I think if you had a clearer, more direct picture of what the manga was actually aiming for, like perhaps if you were a Japanese reader with their language and cultural background, you wouldn't be having these issues.

I'm not calling the current storyline "deep", either. My primary concern is if its entertaining. On some level that's because I know the exact nuances/workings of the explanations and the implications of Nishio's language can't be understood unless you have a naturalized Japanese fluency, some way to directly appreciate the source material. I prefer to trust that the explanation is there, and care most about whether the story is entertaining me in the present moment or not. On the occasions that I can afford to, I attempt to take a closer look at the text and draw out some of the more subtler nuances/meanings. These efforts are frequently fruitful.

(For example, when I casually went over the climax to the Black Wedding arc again earlier today, I noticed three things:
1. Momo's "trick the other two suitors into dropping their turns by speaking slowly" strategy meant that she had to distract people from the time for ~3 hours. However, although the dialogue shown in the chapter was nowhere near that much, that period actually included Momo's explanation of Medaka and Dr. Tsurubami's relationship/backstory. Thus making it somewhat more plausible that she filled up that time.
2. When Momo revealed that Medaka's strategy had involved controlling everybody so that nobody ever said the last three syllables, "u", "sa", and "n", she actually meant those three syllables in specific sequence. Not only is this actually verifiable from the (Japanese) text, but it was also that specific sequence which was required for Momo's last word ("kousan", surrender). Additionally, Medaka actually used that sequence in the very first Shiritori word which she used in setting up the strategy, "Ryuusanmu", after which point nobody else used it.
3. Torai mentioned that Medaka asking a bunch of detailed questions about the Shiritori game rules was to "induce the later plot". This was preceded by an earlier discussion from Wanizuka, etc. about whether or not ending a word with "n" on the last turn would make you disqualified. The revelation is, Medaka actually baited Momo to try to end her last word with "n" by purposely not clarifying that detail when she asked for rule explanations, which was part of how Medaka controlled/manipulated Momo into never using the syllables "u", "sa", or "n" until her last turn came up.)

The point is, yes, Nishio is very good at making entertaining twists that people can just enjoy brainlessly. That is one level to how Medaka Box has survived at all as a competitive manga, because you can't expect the Jump audience to generally read on the same level of Nishio's usual audience. However, another thing that Nishio is very good at is minute details. Attention to those details is what he is actually famous in his other writings for--particularly, it's specifically because of those details that it is common for him to be legitimately respected as an "epic troll". The way that Nishio's stories succeed is that, yes, on one level they manage to be entertaining even if you just forget and don't pay attention to the details. However, on the other level, when on occasion you actually do look for the details, it turns out they're actually there. In fact, Nishio often forces people to look at the details because that's precisely the sort of double punch which makes his works actually worth reading.

Quote:
What really concerns me is that you're clearly flustered and perturbed that two people are agreeing on said opinion. Even more so is that you accuse us of thinking our opinion is objective, when that clearly is ridiculous when dealing with fiction and I never said it was, yet you assumed I felt that way.

I don't know about you, but in the forums I visited, most agreed that the Jet-Black Bride Arc was utter shit. Well, true that there were no japanese readers there, but this isn't some obscure opinion that is completely unjustified simply because japanese readers continued to buy the manga. Or are you saying Japanese readers have reached some state of intellectual enlightenment or something? That seems far-fetched when they might or might not be reading the manga for the same reason you are.

Calm down. That rant was unescessary - I just don't view this manga like you do, that's no reason to insult someone's intelligence and call them "ignorant". Have some decorum, please. I don't see anyone insulting your intelligence due to your opinion.
If you don't think parts of my post applied to you, just ignore them. I grouped you and Kaisos Erainon together because it was expedient. If you want personalized counterarguments for your specific issues, I addressed them above. You also missed that I wasn't calling the Jet Black Wedding arc "objectively good" or anything myself either. The scope of discussion was specifically the chapter which got a good ranking. I myself was unimpressed by large chunks of that arc because I felt they focused too much on pointless conflicts with unimportant characters (for example, Naze's fight with Kanaino in particular lacked tension), and I was also pretty unimpressed with Medaka's characterization. It makes perfect sense to me that many people could find many parts of the Jet Black Wedding Arc unappealing. It's precisely because of the subjective nature of these kinds of judgements, and the incomplete nature of our understanding of Medaka Box natively, that it's better to pay legitimate attention to the particular chapters which did get a good ranking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
I can understand why you're frustrated Sol, but I think you're jumping into the other end of fallacious thinking. So just because you're not the intended audience means you're not allowed to judge its quality? Yes, I don't think insulting the Japanese for their tastes is very constructive in this instance, but it's not as if understanding the intentions of this manga will make people like it. Medaka Box is a manga worth analyzing and discussing, but that may not necessarily impact people liking it. Execution also plays a part. Sure, opinions of people on an anime forum aren't always the most well constructed, but it's still plays a part in viewing the series.

Geh, I must grudgingly admit you do stimulate discussion though.
lol. I don't have a problem with people disliking Medaka Box. I have a problem with people throwing ignorant opinions around of it. If people have the capacity to discuss Medaka Box's demerits in a genuine manner, in the context of (i.e. with respect for) its function, aims, and target audience, then I am perfectly happy to do so. Westlo's occasional commentary on Medaka Box's stagnating sales, for example, are a genuine source of concern for me, although overall I am quite a bit more optimistic about Medaka Box's ultimate ability to improve or sustain itself. This recent fair performance in the TOC rankings is something to be glad about in that context, not negative.
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HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 40/5 :: Locodol 24/5 :: Yama no Susume 32/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-09-27 at 00:54.
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Old 2012-09-27, 00:46   Link #10657
[HearT]
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@Sol;, thank you for saying that none of us can understand this manga and that none of us are smart of enough to even realize that we can't understand this manga :P

"Yeah, I can imagine you would think the Shiritori game was shit when you can't even be assed to pick up on and follow along the rules of a basic game of Shiritori."

I understood the Shiritori game perfectly well, and I still thought the arc was overall crap. Simply knowing japanese doesn't necessarily make this arc better, sure, the word users and the shiritori game had some clever moments, but that's like having a candy bar in a pile of pig slop, sure, candy bars are great, but you don't care about the candy bar when it's buried in pig crap. Just my opinion, of course, I just reaaaally didn't like this arc.


and yet with all of my complaints, I still buy the manga. weird, aren't I.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Being featured on the cover isn't the same as having colour pages. Colour pages are basically when you get special pages within the magazine, and those are placed. It's often true that having the cover page corresponds to having the lead or center colour, but that isn't true in this case. Medaka Box and Gintama's rankings this week were their natural rankings.
I realize this, I know how the toc typically works, but that doesn't mean that they can't place a chapter just because it doesn't have a color page. I'm sure they're perfectly capable of shifting around the order with or without a color page, it just seems suspicious that both Gintama and Medaka were in the bottom and then suddenly they're on the cover and they're ranked much higher




Edit: and of course you somehow managed to write a huge wall of text in the time it took me to write a short paragraph..., oO
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Old 2012-09-27, 00:51   Link #10658
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Fair enough that it has cover this week so its rankings might not bé ranked but you say it and gintama went from bottom to this rank is not true, these last few weeks medaka box has been just behind nisekoi and haikyuu so whos to say that when OP, Toriko and HQ are not ranked that it can't move up higher.
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Old 2012-09-27, 01:00   Link #10659
[HearT]
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Originally Posted by Valid View Post
Fair enough that it has cover this week so its rankings might not bé ranked but you say it and gintama went from bottom to this rank is not true, these last few weeks medaka box has been just behind nisekoi and haikyuu so whos to say that when OP, Toriko and HQ are not ranked that it can't move up higher.
also fair enough, It was just an observation I felt like pointing out :P of course I'd prefer Medaka Box to rank higher and do very well. I don't want the series to die, that's why I support it as much as I can by buying the manga/anime etc :P you guys are kinda making it sound like I want this series to crash and burn lolol
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Old 2012-09-27, 01:38   Link #10660
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by [HearT] View Post
@Sol;, thank you for saying that none of us can understand this manga and that none of us are smart of enough to even realize that we can't understand this manga :P

"Yeah, I can imagine you would think the Shiritori game was shit when you can't even be assed to pick up on and follow along the rules of a basic game of Shiritori."

I understood the Shiritori game perfectly well, and I still thought the arc was overall crap. Simply knowing japanese doesn't necessarily make this arc better, sure, the word users and the shiritori game had some clever moments, but that's like having a candy bar in a pile of pig slop, sure, candy bars are great, but you don't care about the candy bar when it's buried in pig crap. Just my opinion, of course, I just reaaaally didn't like this arc.


and yet with all of my complaints, I still buy the manga. weird, aren't I.




I realize this, I know how the toc typically works, but that doesn't mean that they can't place a chapter just because it doesn't have a color page. I'm sure they're perfectly capable of shifting around the order with or without a color page, it just seems suspicious that both Gintama and Medaka were in the bottom and then suddenly they're on the cover and they're ranked much higher




Edit: and of course you somehow managed to write a huge wall of text in the time it took me to write a short paragraph..., oO

I guess I should clarify, as a Kumagawa x Medaka fan, I also thought that the arc mostly sucked also. I was never talking about the arc as a whole. I was talking about the specific chapter which looks like it had a decent rank, which was the climax chapter. The point isn't about tastes, it's about understanding a good reason for the rank without jumping to "Japanese readers have shit taste/are stupid".

As for the cover issue, I guess I would just say that ultimately we don't really know. I don't know whether there's any precedence for actually reordering a chapter based on a cover, without any colour pages. If there actually is a precedent for that, then I guess that's another possibility.
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Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 40/5 :: Locodol 24/5 :: Yama no Susume 32/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
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