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Old 2006-01-06, 16:58   Link #261
Mr_Paper
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Why is it everything has to turn into some form of Shinn vs. Kira debate?

The thread is dangerously close to being nuked. >.>
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Old 2006-01-06, 17:28   Link #262
thedonkiluminati
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
Why is it everything has to turn into some form of Shinn vs. Kira debate?

The thread is dangerously close to being nuked. >.>
I see the forum is back to normal...
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Old 2006-01-06, 17:41   Link #263
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ok guys quit it with the shinn vs kira thing because in a show like this both of them can pretty much summon lighting from their hands and annihalate an army and it would be passed off by the director as plausible.


i have an interesting question to pose to you that someone from another forum kept using as an "excuse". dio you think a characters "bankability has anything to do with their importance to the show" or rather would you believe the excuse that kira and athrun got more screentime because they were more "bankable". i find this logic to be utter bs but i like to hear your thoughts on the matter. "should character bankability" be taken seriously as a major factor?
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Old 2006-01-06, 18:28   Link #264
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I was just poking fun, not trying to bash. For the record, I like both Shinn and Kira.... its just that they both were tarnished by fukuda I guess. Lets just hope that someone else is in charge of seed3 and we all won't be getting the same BS again
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Old 2006-01-06, 18:51   Link #265
dom33
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@demongod86 if you notice strike freedom=sf=stock footage.
@sniper-sensei i'm sure you like me miss the good old days when pilots won not because of fanbase,plot devices,or god suits but because of their superior(sp?) skills.
and to the topic gsd did lack direction.
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Old 2006-01-06, 20:04   Link #266
Demongod86
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I would give you a cookie for that clever wordplay, dom33, if I could...it gave me quite the laugh. But I have to spread around rep.
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Old 2006-01-06, 20:19   Link #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunman380
ok guys quit it with the shinn vs kira thing because in a show like this both of them can pretty much summon lighting from their hands and annihalate an army and it would be passed off by the director as plausible.


i have an interesting question to pose to you that someone from another forum kept using as an "excuse". dio you think a characters "bankability has anything to do with their importance to the show" or rather would you believe the excuse that kira and athrun got more screentime because they were more "bankable". i find this logic to be utter bs but i like to hear your thoughts on the matter. "should character bankability" be taken seriously as a major factor?
normally that's probably a peice of bull, but with fukuda, it's totally possible. It just seems like he'll go with the most convinient and cost efficient way just so the show could air in time, and that's why we got this kind of junk.
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Old 2006-01-06, 21:09   Link #268
Demongod86
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First off, remember that if it doesn't make money, it doesn't go anywhere. At all. All work is a business venture. The point of business priority uno and beyond all other concerns is to make money. If the fans like Kira and Athrun, then Kira and Athrun they will GET. Fukuda just did not have the storytelling capabilities to tell a good story while catering to the fans.

There is a law of writing that states there is no idea shitty enough that a sufficiently talented writer cannot make it work.

There is also a corollary that states that there is no idea brilliant or original enough that a sufficiently inept writer cannot screw it up.

Fukuda had a nice idea going...he just couldn't deliver because he was too inept to make it work. I say had I been the writer, GSD would have been FAR more enjoyable, even given the idea constraints.
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Old 2006-01-07, 02:11   Link #269
lil shinta
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Destiny did not fail, it just suffered from narrow minded fans. It did not follow the normal Gundam formula in terms of story and characters. It is the most un-Gundam like show, outside of Turn A, Gundam X, and G Gundam.

Also, it is the second act to a larger overall story. It is not a self contained story like all of the UC shows.

Any similarities to UC shows is a tribute to Tomino. Actually, the entire show seems to be a tribute to Tomino. For example, the last ending of Destiny is identical to the ending Ideon.
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Old 2006-01-07, 03:30   Link #270
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didn't the power of Ide end the universe at the end of Ideon? I don't see any bit of similiarity between that and "happily-ever-after" ending from GSD.....
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Old 2006-01-07, 03:49   Link #271
1.0.7.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil shinta
Destiny did not fail, it just suffered from narrow minded fans. It did not follow the normal Gundam formula in terms of story and characters. It is the most un-Gundam like show, outside of Turn A, Gundam X, and G Gundam.

Also, it is the second act to a larger overall story. It is not a self contained story like all of the UC shows.

Any similarities to UC shows is a tribute to Tomino. Actually, the entire show seems to be a tribute to Tomino. For example, the last ending of Destiny is identical to the ending Ideon.
what've you been smoking?
honestly, with the number of rants and complaints this thing has..it is impossible to fathom that's "its the fans fault~". besides, i don't think anyone would care if it followed the conventional gundam series or not, a good show is a good show.
simply put, it wasn't a second act for a larger story. it was just an afterthought for a marketing scam thought up by bandai and given to an illiterate illegitimate son of a muthaf****.
the similiarities weren't a tribute..they show a lack of creativity and laziness. example: genesis, neo-genesis? freedom, strike-freedom? justice, infinite-justice?
providence, legend? notice anything?
i amy accept your reasoning that it may be a tribute..but given the sheer amount of re-used scenes.. it really isn't valid.
no matter how much people argue for GSD,the fact remains that its really a lame excuse for a gundam show.
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Old 2006-01-07, 04:42   Link #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
To say that Kira has the godsuit while Shinn does not have a god suit is ridiculous.
I didn't say Destiny wasn't a GOD suit in any sense. Geez, in Kira's skills per se, he could probably make that thing get sliced with just his Jedi powers or what have you. It's just that he refuses to use them in contradiction to his ideals...

Quote:
Also, Kira and Athrun are of a better skill than Shinn is. It comes from experience. 2 wars>1 war.
No, this isn't a Kira + Athrun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shinn thread.

This isn't even about piloting ability.

It's about why GSD failed.

And..maybe...the piloting issue could be one of the reasons why it failed...? >.>

Quote:
One major thing I don't know if anyone has brought up again is the fact that Shinn has time to re-assemble his Impulse with an endless supply of packs after Kira destroys some. What, is Kira just picking is ass waiting for Shinn to get ready again?
Yes, that's a question that keeps bugging me...how many Silhouette packs does the Minerva keep in its hangar?

Maybe it's because they are going on this stupidly long trip to nowhere so the need for a Silhouette barrage...it's just about as mysterious as to how the Archangel actually gets refueled (but is not mysterious anymore apparently Terminal is all over the world and have sympathizers in just about every continent on the planet earth)...

About the transformation thing...

Shinn was protected by the Sailormoon plot device so that his transformation isn't interrupted even if it was something Kira had seen for the last 23465402605 times already...

@ Demongod86

Money is everything for a 25 year old franchise, and the trick to getting the old fans to enjoy a Gundam show is to make them a Gundam show. Unfortunately, due to something evil that has happened, it was a show that some old fans hated because of how the story went. I mean, the new fans didn't mind it that much because some of them weren't introduced to the other Gundam shows before it, but technically speaking, Gundam was in many ways a classic and how Bandai and Fukuda treated it was just so... Never mind the story, as long as we could sell tons of these model kits? Never mind the story, as long as the old cast fans are pleased? Never mind the story, as long as we get the money to pay for all these artists singing all these songs and so cut back on quality and make us hit the Photoshop CS stations again and again? Never mind the story, as long as nobody fries them in hell for making tons of loop holes where in the most dangerous situations could spell of all the Gundam fandom? It seems that it has come to this, and it is very sad.

It could be in some ways a Gundam show, and in some ways, not a Gundam show. To be able to make something Gundam but not entirely Gundam, a new story that reflects everything that is Gundam, but not a blatant copy of some original ideas before it, please, and of course, a storyline that may be riddled with lots of questions but these questions must lead somewhere, not nowhere, and that it should add up to the main story at hand, without getting too confusing.

This scenario makes me think of love of money as the root of all evil...in an even clearer sense...

But why sacrifice everything for the love of getting fans to like you? What about the other fans that could be alienated? Of course, you can't please everybody, but why does it have to be so screwed up like this wherein every thread concerning the main characters of GSD turns into a hate/flame thread? The fact that Fukuda succeeded in separating the Kira fans from the Shinn fans or the old cast fans from the new cast fans is SO evident, that make one evil remark about something, they will gang up on you like wolves ganging up on a poor rabbit caught in a snare. If ever, GSD was very successful in doing just that.

Fukuda was inept in the sense that his wife was also doing the scripts and the story. A lot of disagreements among the writers or whatever happened (if those magazine interviews were to be believed) because of everything that has happened. Fukuda failed to see through the entire process, which, as a director, is something that he should do, not just leave the story writing to the writers because in the end, he's the one responsible in bringing all these ideas together. Make up a great story, but if it's not that good enough to be put on the storyboard to be debated a zillion times over, then it's as good as shot. Remember that it's not only Morosawa making the scripts; she's just the one who gives the green light for ideas, stories, apart from her own ideas, stories. But since much of their preferences lean towards certain characters and Fukuda failed to look at this project as something that's not only for BANDAI... Lots of good stories may be shafted in the entire storyboard process because of that, many really good ideas, but because of the ineptitude of the director, we get something evil as GSD.


@ lil shinta

Not narrow minded fans. More like, GSD has become a battle between fans, and the other Gundam shows before it didn't suffer this much because even if they took place in different timelines, they all followed one story wherein their main characters weren't nerfed because of uber fanbase. GSD was a Gundam show where the fanbase is even mightier than the director. It doesn't make any real sense.

In fact, GSD was the return to the main Gundam theme of "title series Gundam" unlike its predecessor before it. But it was screwed, several times over, to the many reasons that were presented in this thread. So, it was no way not an un-Gundam show but in some ways an un-Gundam show. Do you get what I mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajunman380
i have an interesting question to pose to you that someone from another forum kept using as an "excuse". dio you think a characters "bankability has anything to do with their importance to the show" or rather would you believe the excuse that kira and athrun got more screentime because they were more "bankable". i find this logic to be utter bs but i like to hear your thoughts on the matter. "should character bankability" be taken seriously as a major factor?
In GSD's and Fukuda's case, it does.
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Old 2006-01-07, 10:28   Link #273
Lonely
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the lack of time management.. they squeezed in too much in such little time.. and the 3 episodes of fillers didnt help very much
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Old 2006-01-07, 10:51   Link #274
Demongod86
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The recaps were ridiculous, character deaths where there needn't be any (I WANT MIA BACK!!!!), terrible writing on Morosawa's part...

nepotism is BAD. Reused scenes are BAD. The story in and of itself was not terrible...Shinn was problematic as a character due to staying static, but the rest of the story was not bad. There were some other issues that were sorta like Kira deciding to play superhero vs. destroy then getting his Freedom trashed the next fight.

Shinn would have stopped that marauding destroy anyway, if not with Impulse then definitely with Destiny.

Then there are forced eps. 34, here's looking at you. We have to pimp the SF so scratch the Freedom...why not just get back to Orb, launch to space, then have a wing/arm refit? Boom, SF right there. But instead, Shinn did the unthinkable, then was a victim of the unimaginable.
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Old 2006-01-07, 11:00   Link #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86
Then there are forced eps. 34, here's looking at you. We have to pimp the SF so scratch the Freedom...why not just get back to Orb, launch to space, then have a wing/arm refit? Boom, SF right there. But instead, Shinn did the unthinkable, then was a victim of the unimaginable.
I like Kira and I think he's generally much more likable than Shinn is, but this doesn't deny me to be rational in evaluating situations. In episode 34 Kira lost because of the pressure of other ZAFT armies but because of Shinn splendid strategy too. Shinn proved to be a very valuable pilot and used reasonable strategyto defeat an enemy who is stronger than him skill wise, but lost his advantages because of the particular context and the limitations he impose on himself. So what happened isn't "unthinkable", not for normal people who use brain. Only brainless fanboys like you keep talking about episode 34 using words like unthinkable etc.
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Old 2006-01-07, 12:06   Link #276
lil shinta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FogHog
didn't the power of Ide end the universe at the end of Ideon? I don't see any bit of similiarity between that and "happily-ever-after" ending from GSD.....
No, I'm sorry I meant the ending credits not the actual ending.
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Old 2006-01-07, 12:17   Link #277
lil shinta
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Originally Posted by 1.0.7.
what've you been smoking?
honestly, with the number of rants and complaints this thing has..it is impossible to fathom that's "its the fans fault~". besides, i don't think anyone would care if it followed the conventional gundam series or not, a good show is a good show.
simply put, it wasn't a second act for a larger story. it was just an afterthought for a marketing scam thought up by bandai and given to an illiterate illegitimate son of a muthaf****.
the similiarities weren't a tribute..they show a lack of creativity and laziness. example: genesis, neo-genesis? freedom, strike-freedom? justice, infinite-justice?
providence, legend? notice anything?
i amy accept your reasoning that it may be a tribute..but given the sheer amount of re-used scenes.. it really isn't valid.
no matter how much people argue for GSD,the fact remains that its really a lame excuse for a gundam show.

Of course there will be similarities to the first show it only takes place two years after Seed. So, the technology will be very similar, unlike the technolgy gap in MSG and Zeta.

I understand your dislike for the show but please let the re-used scene arguement die, all Gundam shows re-use the hell out of certain scenes.

What GSD showed is that wars are always played out behind the scenes instead of on the battlefield.

Just like Turn A and Gundam X, I think GSD will be appreciated in the future once the entire story is done.
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Old 2006-01-07, 13:25   Link #278
dom33
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@sniper-sensei that was a beautiful post!and lonely you made a good point i'm mean 2 clip shows in the last 10 epsiodes is insane!
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Old 2006-01-07, 14:55   Link #279
Lonely
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yeah the mia thing was kind of stupid that shouldnt have been in the last 10 cause it was really a waste of time..
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Old 2006-01-07, 15:02   Link #280
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They wasted so much time on pointless talking like ep 17 was a complete waste. in fact, Athrun trying to be a mentor to anyone is dumb consdiering he is alwasy indecisive. plus athrun seemed to be mor ehumours than anything and overall cheesy. Mia shoudl have died...

Yuuna didn't need to die he had so much potnetial. Djbril shouldn't have died so early cause thier was much left for him to do. Hiene should ahve lived logner than what he did. Heck even todoka, by the law of seed, should have been recapped to death like nicol, tolle, and uzumi-sama...

the battles were lame.... beam spam (ZafT. Kira) vs just plain spam (EA/BC/Logos) throw in a few curse words and grunt deaths, adn that pretty much describes the battles of GSD.
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