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Old 2012-09-26, 19:31   Link #1581
Archon_Wing
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I enjoyed Tari Tari a bit more; it's actually really close but Sakamichi is the better crafted show with more complex drama and characters-- with superior music (OP of the year!) though that last part really took a hit. I don't think either is a masterpiece, but are incredibly solid and consistently entertaining shows.

A lot of Tari Tari for me just swooning over Wakana, though judging by this thread, I appear to be outclassed even in that regard.
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Old 2012-09-26, 22:32   Link #1582
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Got the Tari Tari original soundtrack yesterday, and started listening to it today.

My favorite songs are Dreamer, Reflectia, Harmony of the Sea Breeze (second version), and of course.. Radiant Melody - the lyrics are inspiring, and the chorus parts are amazing! Will be listening to this soundtrack for weeks.
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Old 2012-09-26, 22:32   Link #1583
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I preferred Tari Tari too because it's more charming. The creator knew the anime was unambitious and played to its strength. Instead of making the entire run a tearfest, it delved into a silliness that was cheesy but self-aware.

The last episode could have been downer, it went as a rather pleasing and hopeful episode without being so saccharine. and everything closed up nicely. For me, this is probably the best PA Works has done but not really the best anime. It was really just pleasant anime themed around families and friendship. Dare I say, it was better than any Key anime I watched.

Soundtrack was nice but only a few couple of songs that I really liked. I mean they are good but not too crazy about them.
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Old 2012-09-26, 22:41   Link #1584
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Had the urge to repost this Tari Tari fanart after seeing the final episode.

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Old 2012-09-26, 23:13   Link #1585
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A few general points, given recent discussion:

1. I disagree with the idea that Tari Tari doesn't bring anything new to the table. In my view, the new thing it brings to the table is excellent balance, and seamless transition, between comedy and drama. This is harder to achieve that what it may seem, imo.

I've seen a lot of anime shows that try for an even (or close to even) balance between comedy and drama, and there's virtually always some sort of key flaw in how that's executed. Sometimes the drama seems overly melodramatic, sometimes the comedy undermines the drama, sometimes the comedy is great but you just can't buy the drama moments after all the comedy, sometimes the comedy is just plain bad while the drama is good.

I honestly can't think of any other anime show that blends drama with comedy as well as Tari Tari does. Tari Tari's more dramatic bits (such as most of the Wakana arc) are typically very good. Tari Tair's little comedy bits are nicely sprinkled throughout virtually every episode, and they almost always managed to get at least a chuckle from me.

The way Tari Tari so wondrously blended comedy with drama also made it more effective at realism in general. The reason I say that is that real life itself has a blend of comedy with drama - In pretty much every person's life, there's moments of drama (loved one dies or gets seriously injured, you work hard and succeed at getting a promotion at work, etc...) and moments of comedy (you joke around with friends, hopefully at least some of the jokes are genuinely good ). I think that Tari Tari captures this reality as well as any other anime I've seen.

This extremely effective blending of comedy with drama isn't something that I think should be taken too lightly - It is a considerable accomplishment given how flawed I've found most previous anime attempts at the blending of the two.


2. That being said, I don't consider Tari Tari a particularly ambitious work. But then, very few anime are, imo. Hyouka and Apollon are not particularly ambitious works either, based on what I consider "ambitious art". To me, ambitious art is art that is trying to say something profound, either at a meta-level (deconstructing a genre, say) or at a more universal level (it's trying to grapple with a deeper but specific theme, or it's exploring concepts that have never been explored quite the same way before). Sword Art Online is ambitious, imo, because it's exploring the VR MMO concept in an unique way (it's going deeper than Dot Hack ever did, imo).

But SAO is pretty much the only anime airing right now that I would consider ambitious in this way (maybe Jinrui too, but that's a more borderline case for me because I don't know how seriously Jinrui takes its own satire and if it's aiming for any clear theme in particular).

In my mind, Tari Tari and Hyouka are both cases of excellent execution more or less making up for moderate ambition. Hyouka takes its mysteries about as seriously as Tari Tari takes its music, and both touch briefly upon some deeper ideas and issues, but not really in a particularly substantive and clearly developed way. I would say that Hyouka is the subtler, more sophisticated, and more sober of the two, while Tari Tari is the more colorful, the more idealistic, and the more upbeat of the two. That's not to say either is better, but just to elaborate on how I feel the two shows compare.


3. Part of the reason why I would prefer a Tari Tari movie over a 2nd season is that I honestly don't see what they could do to fill up another full 13-episode season. The five kids are all graduated from high school now, and it makes sense that they will ultimately all go their separate ways to a large degree given their wildly divergent backgrounds and passions. So I just don't see how you could have any sort of coherent 13-episode narrative that ties all of the main cast together like what we had with Tari Tari. The best I can see is, again, them all getting back together due to either visiting Sawa or Sawa coming home (visiting Sawa being the more interesting idea, imo). But the only way you could turn that into a full 13-episode season would be to massively decompress the narrative - It would be insanely slow.

I guess you could have a 13-episode season that has 2 or 3 major plotlines ongoing side-by-side (Konatsu and Wakana could conceivably stick together past high school, Tanaka could conceivably "chase after" Sawa or he could reunite with Wien (doubles partners in Badminton, maybe?), and then that leaves either Sawa or Wien). But honestly, I've only seen a few anime shows try this sort of thing, and my overall opinion is that it gets you mixed results at best.
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Old 2012-09-26, 23:20   Link #1586
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If you don't think Hyouka was profound, you weren't watching the same show I was. It certainly didn't go all-out every episode, but I can think of few recent series that explored human interaction with such subtlety. It was also deceptively radical when it comes to style and visual technique.

As for Apollon, I certainly won't deny that it was less than an unqualified success (largely due to time constraints), but in terms of what it was trying to do visually and in integrating music into the work, it was incredibly ambitious. One of my pet phrases is that great art is often simple and profound at the same time, and Apollon achieved this on many occasions. It was also a very interesting look at a specific and tumultuous period in recent history, and drawing parallels between the personal story and what was happening in society at large. Profundity is in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but while there were better shows in that great Spring season, at its best Apollon was a true work of genius as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 2012-09-26, 23:27   Link #1587
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Sword Art Online is ambitious, imo, because it's exploring the VR MMO concept in an unique way (it's going deeper than Dot Hack ever did, imo)
I wouldn't consider SAO ambitious myself. It does explore the MMO concept but it does so in an overly simplistic way IMO.

As for TT, I agree that a movie would work better than a tv series. I can't see them doing anything longer than 70 minutes or so.
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Old 2012-09-26, 23:35   Link #1588
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I've said this before, but I think "ambition" (like "originality") is over-valued, particularly by older anime fans who've been around for many years and have gotten a bit jaded with anime over time. If you watch every show judging whether or not it's a "game-changer", then to me at least that takes some of the joy out of the experience. Did I enjoy it? Would I watch it again? Would I recommend it to others (and with what sort of qualifications)? In the end, I think only time will tell whether a story sticks with you over the years, and a lot of that depends on personal factors that go beyond the show's objective traits. For me, all I can say is that I enjoyed the show enough to buy the Blu-Rays and they've been well-worth the purchase to me thus far. So that's definitely a "pass" in my books.
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Old 2012-09-26, 23:42   Link #1589
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Old 2012-09-26, 23:45   Link #1590
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Well, just to be clear, I don't think an anime has to be particularly ambitious in order to be an excellent work. I think it usually helps to be ambitious, but I think an anime can be a masterpiece without being particularly ambitious.

I would not argue with someone calling Hyouka a masterpiece - It's overall level of execution may well warrant it being viewed that way. Holding Tari Tari to be a masterpiece is probably trickier, but I have to admit at a subjective level it really hit a lot of right notes for me. Tari Tari is kind of like Saki to me in where it's just so much fun that I honestly can't bring myself to care much about whatever flaws people may see in it.


Finally, a lot of this probably comes down to what you consider "execution", and what you consider "ambition". To me, great character drama/development is more a matter of execution than it is a matter of ambition, but I can understand somebody seeing ambition there instead.
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Old 2012-09-27, 00:19   Link #1591
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This is getting quite offtopic, but whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, just to be clear, I don't think an anime has to be particularly ambitious in order to be an excellent work. I think it usually helps to be ambitious, but I think an anime can be a masterpiece without being particularly ambitious.
The best series are those are both ambitious and have near-perfection presentation, but those come once in a blue moon. To be honest, I can't think of any in recent times because even series like Madoka Magica, Steins Gate and Fate/Zero which are hailed to be masterpieces all had flaws, plot-holes or pacing problems if you look hard enough. But for those kind of series, nitpicking at its problems is probably the worst thing you can do if you want to enjoy the anime as a whole, because they are about as the cream of the crop you are going to get in recent times.

But then there is the more numerous, simple (or unambitious if you want to look at things from a half-empty view) but near-perfected execution and a lot of these happen to come from the slice of life/drama genre. To me series like Usagi Drop, Tari Tari and Hyouka fall into this category and more often then not I like these series just as much if not more than the category above.

Quote:
I would not argue with someone calling Hyouka a masterpiece - It's overall level of execution may well warrant it being viewed that way. Holding Tari Tari to be a masterpiece is probably trickier, but I have to admit at a subjective level it really hit a lot of right notes for me. Tari Tari is kind of like Saki to me in where it's just so much fun that I honestly can't bring myself to care much about whatever flaws people may see in it.
I think it's arguable to call Hyouka a masterpiece from an artistic point of view because from a purely visual perspective, it was brilliant. It was as if at times it took conceptual lessons from Shaft, attached their own spin on it, backed up the big budget they for the series. And the level of detail they put in was outstanding. However, from a conceptual point of view, it was no more ambitious than other slice of life/drama series really since in the end, the series is about "making the most of out of school-life" and "growing up". It just happened to have sophistication, smart dialogue and great artistic flair to go with it.

Tari Tari is not a masterpiece on either standards, but you know what, I don't give a damn. The series was so genuine, full of heart and the definition of "unpretentious" that my enjoyment of it far exceeds any lack of ambition or originality which seems to the common criticism for the series. Although it is undeniable that it's primary audience was aimed at a late-night otaku audience, the way the simple story was told, how the characters acted and the general uplifting but bittersweet tone it had to it seemed like it could be watched by anyone anime fan or not. It didn't blatantly pander with excessive slapstick humor or overwrought melodrama nor did it go overboard with "moeblob" moments, though of course it had plenty of "awww" moments. That's was the reason I compare it to Usagi Drop, since that show had much the same characteristics, though for whatever reason I know that some people seem to think series like that automatically better because it had an adult male protagonist in it (I do think it's slightly better, but not for the mere reason that it has a "adult cast' instead of a "teenager cast").


At the end of the day, I'm one of the those people that think perfection of a simple premise >> half-assing an ambitious one, and there's plenty of the latter one. Particularly because there seems to be a trend of believing that tacking on some fantasy, sci-fi or supernatural gimmick or not being "slice of life" period automatically means it's more "ambitious" and therefore better. I can bollocks on that too since I believe that if you're going to use such elements, you better do a good job of weaving those elements into your plot and not plucking it in for the sake of plucking it in because if you don't, chances it's going to seem like an asspull, which will a have a negative impact on the series.
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Old 2012-09-27, 03:20   Link #1592
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I've said this before, but I think "ambition" (like "originality") is over-valued, particularly by older anime fans who've been around for many years and have gotten a bit jaded with anime over time. If you watch every show judging whether or not it's a "game-changer", then to me at least that takes some of the joy out of the experience. Did I enjoy it? Would I watch it again? Would I recommend it to others (and with what sort of qualifications)? In the end, I think only time will tell whether a story sticks with you over the years, and a lot of that depends on personal factors that go beyond the show's objective traits. For me, all I can say is that I enjoyed the show enough to buy the Blu-Rays and they've been well-worth the purchase to me thus far. So that's definitely a "pass" in my books.
I take issue with this statement because the notion here is backwards. People do not necessarily watch a show with the mindset of "if this doesn't do something new it isn't good." Rather what happens is we watch something, and because it is failing to surprise us in any way because it's content is really standard or trite stuff, then it does not manage to make a deep impression.

Yes, sometimes quality of execution can shine through. I felt Tari Tari is an example of a show that took standard everyday plot and managed to make it fun. Was it particularly memorable? Not really. Remaking the same sort of story we've all seen before in an all too familiar way is not going to get people out of their seats, and there's no reason it should.
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Old 2012-09-27, 04:13   Link #1593
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Here's what I liked about Tari Tari:

- The music wasn't just a gimmick. It was integral for a lot of characterisation, and thus could even function as pressure release in tight plot situations. I really like music anime, and they integrated it very well, showing what music can mean to people.

- For a highschool anime, the grown ups were very well developed. It gives the core cast context and makes them more understandable.

For me, characters and plot were servicable; neither drew me in nor put me off. I can't think of anything especially off-putting, so in the end I come away with a slightly positive feeling. I enjoyed it while I watched it, but it's not a want-to-own show.

I didn't feel "ambition" in the show, but I felt something that's at least equally important (if not more): I felt the people who made the show loved doing it; it felt like the show had heart. I know that's rather vague, but that's what it feels like: they had fun making the show, and we had fun watching it. Time well spent all around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple R
Sword Art Online is ambitious, imo, because it's exploring the VR MMO concept in an unique way (it's going deeper than Dot Hack ever did, imo).
An interesting comment, considering that - on an another board - I almost typed ".hack it ain't"; meaning it doesn't really explore its concept. (That might be an interesting discussion, but not in a Tari Tari thread. )
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Old 2012-09-27, 04:27   Link #1594
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I take issue with this statement because the notion here is backwards. People do not necessarily watch a show with the mindset of "if this doesn't do something new it isn't good." Rather what happens is we watch something, and because it is failing to surprise us in any way because it's content is really standard or trite stuff, then it does not manage to make a deep impression.
How is that different in the end? All that means is the person who came into the show expecting to be disappointed (and was) was a better predictor/judge of the show's appeal to themselves. The person who keeps randomly finding things to watch and ends up disappointed is probably going to be consumed by bitterness before long due to their lack of discernment in picking shows they're likely to enjoy. (Of course there are still shows that could disappoint you contrary to your best intentions and careful, deliberate selection -- those notwithstanding. And "really standard or trite" is a pretty vague statement that probably means more to some people than it does to others.)

Quote:
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Was it particularly memorable? Not really. Remaking the same sort of story we've all seen before in an all too familiar way is not going to get people out of their seats, and there's no reason it should.
That seems like such a dull and listless way to enjoy entertainment. Glad it works for you, but it's not for me.
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Old 2012-09-27, 05:53   Link #1595
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How is that different in the end? All that means is the person who came into the show expecting to be disappointed was a better predictor/judge of the show's appeal to themselves. The person who keeps randomly finding things to watch and ends up disappointed is probably going to be consumed by bitterness before long due to their lack of discernment in picking shows they're likely to enjoy
I'm not sure you and reckoner are talking about the same thing.
To take an example you seem to be describing someone that hates a harem anime deciding to watch one even though he hates them and then complaining about how it was just a standard harem after watching it.

What I thought Reckoner described was just a regular anime watcher who, after having watched a few of them, has no feelings (good or bad) towards the harem genre and after watching it thinking it didn't stand out in any way.

That said I actually do agree with you on "originality" being overrated (though definitely far from unimportant).If something sticks out from the norm people are usually very willing to overalook flaws because they're so excited about seeing something different,if I had to use the Reckoner Food Metaphor™ I'd say that after a lot of burgers people are so glad to eat a filet mignon that they're not even bothering to make sure it's prepared correctly.
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Old 2012-09-27, 05:59   Link #1596
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1. d4

Originality is overrated a bit, however...

I do feel that while it seems that many things have been done before, that doesn't mean that slight changes in small places can't cause an infinite amount of permutations. One can look at chess (Starcraft if you are Pocari) which seems to have very few possibilities at the start, but as the game continues on, the possibilities are endless (at least to a human). That can be where inspiration comes from. It challenges the writers to think, it challenges the audience to think, and things get better. It prevents stagnation.

In this case when it comes to art, I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect art to aim for the sky and test the limits. I wasn't a huge fan of Wandering Son, but I greatly respected the nature of the anime and how far it was willing to go.

Do I care that Tari Tari is merely a "mortal" anime? I really could care less where everyone wants to put it on the pantheon of "relevant" anime. Nah, I enjoyed most of this anime regardless. Do I think certain parts such as the resolution near the end as well as the principal could have been handed better? Sure. Why not? Clannad was pretty damned safe and its one of my favorite anime but I'm not going to disagree too furiously with anyone that says it could have used more ambition and/or creativity. But I also don't have the same motives as everyone else for watching anime-- I usually come to fanboy over characters and usually not series.

Btw, I'd take a burger any day.
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Old 2012-09-27, 07:37   Link #1597
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After having a chance to listen more to songs on disc 2, there's nothing there that I particularly disliked. The least catchy track in my opinion is the graduation song. Reflectia reminds me of True Tears (the shipping wars days). Melody of the Heart (I think it's the name of track 12) feels just as inspiring as Radiant Melody - for some reason it's Wakana that comes to mind when I hear it. And lastly, the mexican / spanish song is catchy too, it's good they didn't forget to add it.
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Old 2012-09-27, 08:30   Link #1598
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Old 2012-09-27, 08:30   Link #1599
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I keep listening to Ganba Rangers song , the part when Tanaka joins Wien is just too awesome - his VA has such a great voice. Also in last episode in Sawa x Tanaka scene his voice is just so sweet

I think TT is a bit underrated tbh. Yes, there's nothing very remembering about the series like Guren Lagan, but the overall impressions from TT is worth 9/10.

I think it was near perfect slice of life/song genre. Maybe a bit more romantic development b/w Sawa and Tanaka could be good, but the script writers did even a better thing - leave Tanaka's speech to your imagination.

Also I wished they showed more of everyone's future, maybe in a movie

Now I understand that Tanaka is really great character, but he kinda lacked development together with Wien. And I also think that if TT was all-female cast it wouldn't be as great, not by much but still.

PS
Sorry for my fanboyism about Tanaka.
Glad I'm not the only one who really like Badminton-kun XD

I love how his voice really adds depth to the range of the overall choral parts, it wouldn't be the same if the cast was only girls so the mix is very welcome. Tenor/bass harmonies ftw
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Old 2012-09-27, 11:36   Link #1600
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I wouldn't consider SAO ambitious myself. It does explore the MMO concept but it does so in an overly simplistic way IMO.

As for TT, I agree that a movie would work better than a tv series. I can't see them doing anything longer than 70 minutes or so.
To say SAO explores the VRMMO more deeply than .hack is a long way from saying it's unique. There are plenty of other examples that do so, just not necessarily in anime.
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