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Old 2012-09-28, 00:08   Link #2441
miketyson
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Where did the archetype in theEND come from in the original series?
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Old 2012-09-28, 00:10   Link #2442
aardvark
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Where did the archetype in theEND come from in the original series?
Dug out from the Coral, just like the Nirvash and all other Archetypes
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Old 2012-09-28, 00:13   Link #2443
miketyson
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Was there anything special about it to make it so nirvash-ish then? If there was I am drawing blanks.
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Old 2012-09-28, 00:18   Link #2444
aardvark
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Was there anything special about it to make it so nirvash-ish then? If there was I am drawing blanks.
The only thing that really separated the Nirvash from all other Archetypes was that it was the very first discovered, along with Eureka, there aren't different classes of Archetypes as far as the original series goes.

theEND was basically meant to be designed as a counterpoint to the Nirvash and be conjoined with a "coralian" pilot, presumably since the Federation lost the originals when Holland bolted the heck out of there.

Main thing to remember is that the archetypes were primitive communication tools, so the Nirvashes would of course gain sentience over all others due to the fact that they are bonded with pilots linked to the coral.
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Old 2012-09-28, 00:31   Link #2445
Tyr Valein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
You're thinking of Kyoda Tomoki, Dai Sato is the lead writer on the original show and he's not involved with AO.
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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
Dai Sato was the writer of the original series, he isnt involved in this one.

As far as the director, its Tomoki Kyoda, the same as the original, and he should know the lore of the original series, considering just how involved in the creation of it he was...which makes whats going on in AO all the more puzzling...
No, I know Dai Sato isn't working on this, I was just pointing out that while Dai Sato wasn't the best writer ever he did a good job on the original and I don't think he would have purposely destroyed his own work, which is what Kyoda seems to be doing.

As for Kyoda being on the original team, seriously, wtf is he on now then and where can I get some of it? Because it must be some good stuff. The lack of respect for what came before is appalling.


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Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
The only thing that really separated the Nirvash from all other Archetypes was that it was the very first discovered, along with Eureka, there aren't different classes of Archetypes as far as the original series goes.

theEND was basically meant to be designed as a counterpoint to the Nirvash and be conjoined with a "coralian" pilot, presumably since the Federation lost the originals when Holland bolted the heck out of there.

Main thing to remember is that the archetypes were primitive communication tools, so the Nirvashes would of course gain sentience over all others due to the fact that they are bonded with pilots linked to the coral.
I thought that the Nirvash is what was supposed to bring them through the Zone, isn't that why Norb and Sakuya couldn't do it (their not quite matched emotions aside)? I know you were supposed to take Norb and Dr.Bear's explanation of the Nirvash's purpose with a grain of salt but it always occurred to me that its speshfulness was inherent to its archetype and it alone. No other archetype moves on its own and etc. and etc.

Last edited by Tyr Valein; 2012-09-28 at 20:27. Reason: for accuracy on writers/directors
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Old 2012-09-28, 00:34   Link #2446
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I see, thanks aardvark. And we never found out how compac drives are made and what they're made from, right?
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Old 2012-09-28, 00:34   Link #2447
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As for Kyoda being on the original team, seriously, wtf is he on now then and where can I get some of it? Because it must be some good stuff. I thought Shou Aikawa was the director. Or was he only an occasional substitute writer?
Now you're confusing directors with writers.
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Old 2012-09-28, 00:35   Link #2448
Tyr Valein
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
I see, thanks aardvark. And we never found out how compac drives are made and what they're made from, right?
No, we didn't. The games went into the Compac Feedback System a little, but nothing about the compac drive manufacturing process.

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Now you're confusing directors with writers.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the correction.
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Old 2012-09-28, 00:42   Link #2449
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
I see, thanks aardvark. And we never found out how compac drives are made and what they're made from, right?
I mean, its never directly stated or anything, for sure.

But I think visually, the series shows that the compac is created out of material dug out of the coral. That episode in the mines you can see the green crystals all over the walls and ceilings, or when Dewey blasts a whole into the planet towards the end, you can see the green material/crystal within as well.

Maybe the show could have had an episode where you see a plant or something where they mine/produce the compac, but I dunno, in the end, the info is there in some way I think

edit:

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Old 2012-09-28, 00:57   Link #2450
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I did pick up on their being "deep scub green", , I just was really foggy on whether or not compac drives were fully explained or not. Thanks again for the info.

Oh yeah those guys from near the end. Scub biology must be a fascinating topic.

Last edited by miketyson; 2012-09-28 at 01:15. Reason: reaction to image
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Old 2012-09-28, 01:07   Link #2451
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Originally Posted by Tyr Valein View Post
I don't argue that Renton couldn't mechanically duplicate your run o' the mill Monsoono or any other LFO (despite the archetypal base being what makes E7 unique among mecha, aside from the lifting boards, and I'm loathe to see it go), but THE Nirvash is special for a whole number of reasons specifically because of its organic archetype. It was capable of generating the Seven Swell, was the only LFO capable of making it through the Zone, the only archetype capable of growing and changing shape of its own will (and the wills of its pilots), and the only archetype that had performance of its baseline mechanical parts increased because of the ability of the pilots to work together (noted by Charles when he was chasing the typeZERO that his Spearhead has better specs and should be faster). The Nirvash typeZERO was unique in so many ways.
It was capable of generating the Seven Swell because of the Amita Drive. It could not do that by itself. It also wasn't the only archetype capable of such transformations; theEND got a paint job and was also capable of self-direction, indicating that they could duplicate such sentience.

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The fact that the director of AO COMPLETELY blows past all this in what is undoubtedly a ploy to turn AO into your generic military/mecha show makes me highly upset. He obviously doesn't know or care what the original E7 was about or what it stood for. I bet he just saw one shot of the Nirvash's eyes glowing before something happened and went "I want to do this too!" without ever asking about the context.
They've acknowledged that there's something organic in the Nirvash spec2. That's how Eureka explains its behavior to Ao. The concept isn't forgotten, he's merely introduced the next generation, for lack of a better way to describe it.

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I thought that the Nirvash is what was supposed to bring them through the Zone, isn't that why Norb and Sakuya couldn't do it (their not quite matched emotions aside)? I know you were supposed to take Norb and Dr.Bear's explanation of the Nirvash's purpose with a grain of salt but it always occurred to me that its speshfulness was inherent to its archetype and it alone. No other archetype moves on its own and etc. and etc.
The priests jumped the gun and shoved them together thinking it would work automatically. Without any guide, it failed miserably. Norb and Sakuya gave themselves to make sure Eureka and Renton would make it where they failed.
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Old 2012-09-28, 11:07   Link #2452
Tyr Valein
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
It was capable of generating the Seven Swell because of the Amita Drive. It could not do that by itself. It also wasn't the only archetype capable of such transformations; theEND got a paint job and was also capable of self-direction, indicating that they could duplicate such sentience.
I agree that the Amita Drive was part of the reason it was capable of the Seven Swell, but it was implied that the Amita Drive wouldn't have worked with any other LFO. theEND only peeled off its paint. The Nirvash changed its archetype entirely. It grew in size and changed its length to better facilitate a change into a jet form. Before that point, it was smaller than all the other LFOs by a good amount. Plus it was the only LFO with room for two seats from the start. As for theEND, I get the feeling theEND was already capable of that, since Eureka and Anemone can talk to their respective archetypes and they talk back, but you never see Eureka talking to any of the other Terminus LFOs they have on the Gekko-Go.

Quote:
They've acknowledged that there's something organic in the Nirvash spec2. That's how Eureka explains its behavior to Ao. The concept isn't forgotten, he's merely introduced the next generation, for lack of a better way to describe it.
I mean that its forgotten not by the characters, but by the writers. Which IS more puzzling considering they have some of the old staff. Did they forget? Did they just not really understand what they were working on the first time around? Did they just disagree with how things were handled in the original series and now they get to do what they want?

The mecha in Eureka Seven were unique because of their archetypes and their lift boards. All IFOs but the U.S. ones and the RA272 don't use refboards and don't have archetypes, and aside from the RA272 and the Kyrie's skis, we only see one of them use its board once. Trapar alone wasn't the visual motif for E7. I'm not a fan of what they've been doing with the mecha. Its cool and all that they believe Renton is capable of building IFO Nirvashes, but they're not the same as the Spec2. They're just mechanical copies. They won't increase their specs past their maximum numbers purely because of the will of their pilot, they weren't made SPECIFICALLY for Eureka and a partner, like the typeZERO was. And I won't believe that they carry as much weight to the story just because their eyes glow like the originals. Its just not the same.

Quote:
The priests jumped the gun and shoved them together thinking it would work automatically. Without any guide, it failed miserably. Norb and Sakuya gave themselves to make sure Eureka and Renton would make it where they failed.
Agreed, they definitely tried to force them into traveling through the Zone, but Norb himself states that the Zone is like a river and the Nirvash is the boat that gets them across. Sure, they had Norb and Sakuya to guide them, but its implied they wouldn't have made it without the Nirvash either. If Norb's dissertation, from which we get most of the information on Compac Drives, the Limit of Questions, and Trapar doesn't also convince you on the inherent aspects of the Nirvash itself, I don't know what I else I can do.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess.

Last edited by Tyr Valein; 2012-09-28 at 11:47.
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Old 2012-09-28, 15:23   Link #2453
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Truth totally lost his mind.
That is a really really bad thing.
Ao vs Truth! Nothing new there.
Well, at least we learned some new stuff about Truth.
The experiments with coral carriers went out of control.
Looks like Truth has his own plan and isn't as controllable as they thought.
Ao- Naru relationship has potential if only they'd relax some more.
The future part was interesting.
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Old 2012-09-28, 16:22   Link #2454
Tyr Valein
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Also, I thought of something strange just now. Why is Renton so surprised that the Seven Swell appeared? If he had still had the original typeZERO (you know, the one with the archetype), he would have been able to activate it. But before you can even ask yourself that, you have to ask when the Seven Swell acquired time travel properties in the first place. Looks like even though Renton's acquired a mad scientist getup (presumably from becoming a mad scientist), he hasn't gotten exponentially smarter.

We're assuming that either this will all be explained in the last two episodes (HIGHLY unlikely) or the last two episodes will be spent setting up for a third series a year or so from now (equally unlikely). I mean, Renton and Eureka have a daughter who hasn't even been introduced yet. Though its equally probable that they just won't introduce her at all.
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Old 2012-09-28, 17:48   Link #2455
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This is going to end up being more convoluted than Xam'd
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Old 2012-09-28, 18:02   Link #2456
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Ao and Naru we're so cute . But I think Ao like's Fleur right ?
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Old 2012-09-28, 18:15   Link #2457
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So far, Ao
Spoiler:


I think the implication is quite clear: They're obviously setting up for
Spoiler:
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Old 2012-09-28, 18:34   Link #2458
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I've waited 22 episodes for Renton... to have him voiced by FUJIWARA KEIJI?!!!? you gotta be kidding me!
They really screwed everything up with this sequel, Renton and Eureka deserved their happy ending from the original. I wish AO had never been created.
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Old 2012-09-28, 18:36   Link #2459
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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

This just felt odd. Will it ever be adressed? I doubt it.
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Old 2012-09-28, 18:49   Link #2460
Tyr Valein
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In case anyone was wondering, the song from the end of 22 when Renton appears is "Parallel Signs" by Lama. It also played during episode 11 during the whole weird Miller thing with the sand.

EDIT: I can't find the damned song anywhere. I wants it NAO.

EDIT2: Also found these while trawling the grand internets:

Quote:
=No antibody Coralians or Kute-class gateways
=Seven Swell-ish Scub Bursts everywhere
=Suddenly mysterious Quartz out of nowhere
=Scub is ominous and threatening after it should have reached enlightenment

Yes, it's another complaint with Ao. The scub's behaviour makes no freaking sense compared to the one in E7.

There's also the fact than when it needed to contact humans, it went for infecting a human girl with magic asthma instead of contacting THE GOD DAMNED HUMAN-CORALIAN HYBRID LIVING NEXT TO HER.

I get that it's a cliché for the girl to be the mysterious prophet figure, but no, dude, no, that just doesn't freaking work. Ao's is Eureka's fucking son, if ANYBODY should be contacted by the scub, it's him.
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