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Old 2012-09-28, 06:34   Link #821
DonQuigleone
Knight Errant
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I agree that more skilled, intelligent, and hard working should be rewarded.
But isn't the higher income not already the said reward? The tax favortism seems to be simply compiling the problem.
Of course, the above question isn't directed to you, or even the GOP. It's to the supporters who are blinded by their own treatment.
Ideally yes. But in creating a society that rewards hard work, skill and intelligence, we should swing so far as to look down on those who are less fortunate, which is what I'm seeing among the wealthy of today, who unlike yesterday are more "self made".

We shouldn't look down on the less fortunate, because we don't know how they came to be there.

Also, some of us are jus less lucky, those of us who are born with a natural skill for art, or athleticism are never going to be as fortunate as those with a natural skill for picking stocks...

@Monarchy: The idea that an office should be passed down from father to son is inherently backwards. A political office should never be limitted to a particular family, even if it's largely ceremonial. Let's not forget that that "ceremonial" office comes with it tremendous wealth...

What I will say is that when we're talking about the transition from monarchy to democracy, the constitutional monarchy route probably is a better route then the "revolution" one, a much moe stable functional state results. That's one reason why the Middle Eastern monachies are largely better managed then the republics. The excesses of revolution always sets things back.

Last edited by DonQuigleone; 2012-09-28 at 06:47.
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Old 2012-09-28, 07:23   Link #822
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
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Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Election to Decide Future Interrogation Methods in Terrorism Cases
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/us...-suspects.html
Quote:
In one of his first acts, President Obama issued an executive order restricting interrogators to a list of nonabusive tactics approved in the Army Field Manual. Even as he embraced a hawkish approach to other counterterrorism issues — like drone strikes, military commissions, indefinite detention and the Patriot Act — Mr. Obama has stuck to that strict no-torture policy.
By contrast, Mr. Romney’s advisers have privately urged him to “rescind and replace President Obama’s executive order” and permit secret “enhanced interrogation techniques against high-value detainees that are safe, legal and effective in generating intelligence to save American lives,” according to an internal Romney campaign memorandum.
Another step toward W. Bush policy mister Romney ?
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Old 2012-09-28, 11:31   Link #823
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Election to Decide Future Interrogation Methods in Terrorism Cases
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/us...-suspects.html

Another step toward W. Bush policy mister Romney ?
Lord Cheney gets his rocks off that way if you've watched him talk about it. He nearly drools it excites him so much as he pretends he's some character out of Dr. Strangelove.

Meanwhile, back in Science World, people know that those techniques are not only worthless but provide corrupted data that actually damages the quality of the overall information field. It opens up legal challenges and it puts our own personnel at higher risk in a "race to the bottom".

The larger portion of Romney advisors are nasty little trolls from the Bush, Jr. administration. You know.... the people who made the mess from 2000-2008.
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Old 2012-09-28, 11:48   Link #824
Mr. DJ
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lulz, Fox and Friends talk about the "Liberal Media" polls being skewed in favor of Obama, but ignore that FOX's own polls show Obama is ahead by 5 points

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...conspiracy.php
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Old 2012-09-28, 13:01   Link #825
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Meanwhile, back in Science World, people know that those techniques are not only worthless but provide corrupted data that actually damages the quality of the overall information field. It opens up legal challenges and it puts our own personnel at higher risk in a "race to the bottom".
Hm, I think I'm from Science World -- and I'd still be the first to admit that there are weaknesses to relying on academic studies. My fiance has an MA and some of my friends have PhDs. I've sat in on thesis discussions. I've seen the academic review process. It's not perfect. That being said, I do believe they are a step-wise means of adding to the human body of knowledge.

One issue regarding studies of the effectiveness of torture is that the available research data-sets are skewed due to self-disclosure issues. I believe one particular issue that has been raised by researchers themselves is that the topic by nature tends to be secretive and since proper research studies need the consent of those involved, there is a natural skew and bias towards one result.

Setting aside torture as a means of retrieving information .. it has been established that torture/blackmail/etc is an excellent method with which to induce "behaviour" if not "information" that the coercer is seeking. So what about if it's use to create desired results vs. just retrieving information? I'm also not sure how as a population condemning torture but turning a blind eye and condoning supporting tyrants and despots to suppress enemy nations or terrorist organizations works..

Personally, I think the "race to the bottom" is a myth, we all already have plenty of blood on our hands whether we admit it or not. Would you pay a heinous warlord to suppress a population/mob that is frothing at the mouth to burn and pillage your city? See this: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...37#post4351837
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Old 2012-09-28, 13:40   Link #826
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
lulz, Fox and Friends talk about the "Liberal Media" polls being skewed in favor of Obama, but ignore that FOX's own polls show Obama is ahead by 5 points

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...conspiracy.php
It's a bad sign for them when that's all they talk about. If they think they could still win it, they would be discussing how Romney could make a comeback. The fact that they are talking about faulty polls meant that they have gave up on Romney.
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Old 2012-09-28, 13:49   Link #827
Xacual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
It's a bad sign for them when that's all they talk about. If they think they could still win it, they would be discussing how Romney could make a comeback. The fact that they are talking about faulty polls meant that they have gave up on Romney.
Well that and all the increased activity from those "voter fraud prevention" groups.
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Old 2012-09-28, 19:03   Link #828
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Obama blocks Chinese wind farms in Oregon over national security
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88R19220120928
I wonder if the GOP might find a way to spin this...

Republicans dump voter registration firm after fraud reports
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88R1GL20120928
Quote:
Election officials in Florida were scouring their records for fraudulent voter registration forms on Friday after the Republican party said it had fired a company hired to gather new voters because of reports its employees may have submitted bogus forms.
The Palm Beach County elections office first reported finding 106 potentially fraudulent registration forms earlier this week that had been submitted by Strategic Allied Consulting (SAC), a Virginia firm hired by Florida's Republican party.
Since then scores more suspicious forms have been detected in at least five other Florida counties where election officials say SAC worked to register voters.
Federal Election Commission reports from the state Republican party show it paid SAC more than $1.3 million this summer for voter registration services.
SAC was also hired to do voter registration work for the Republican party in four other key swing states - Nevada, Virginia, Colorado, and North Carolina - for a total of $2.9 million, according to the Republican National Committee (RNC).
This is kind of interesting...
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Old 2012-09-28, 19:16   Link #829
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Basically, the wind farms are on hold until all Chinese ownership/investment/etc is removed. They're too close to a military installation of interest.
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Old 2012-09-28, 19:48   Link #830
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Basically, the wind farms are on hold until all Chinese ownership/investment/etc is removed. They're too close to a military installation of interest.
Of course it's the reason, and probably a good on, but since when this year Republican let's fact hinder them in this presidential race

Edit: Benghazi-Gate: New Evidence White House Lied About Libya Terror Attack
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2...ed-About-Libya

New edit: In the end, it’s Mitt
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81772.html
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Last edited by ganbaru; 2012-09-29 at 09:35.
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Old 2012-09-29, 14:34   Link #831
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Before Debate, Tough Crowds at the Practice
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/us...al-debate.html
Could it be than the debates might be the last chance for Romney ?
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Old 2012-09-29, 14:55   Link #832
Kokukirin
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Most people predict Obama to perform better than Romney in debates because the president is a renowned speaker, but this expectation probably helps Romney in the end. As long as he can hold his ground, avoid major mistakes, and make himself a better known person, Romney can consider the debate a success and probably make gains in polls. On the other hand, even if Obama "wins" the debate, that is merely what people expect to happen.
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Old 2012-09-29, 15:04   Link #833
GDB
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I don't know if I'd call "not screwing up" to be a success. Breaking even, holding your ground, whatever, sure. But a success?
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Old 2012-09-29, 15:54   Link #834
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokukirin View Post
Most people predict Obama to perform better than Romney in debates because the president is a renowned speaker, but this expectation probably helps Romney in the end. As long as he can hold his ground, avoid major mistakes, and make himself a better known person, Romney can consider the debate a success and probably make gains in polls. On the other hand, even if Obama "wins" the debate, that is merely what people expect to happen.
That's not enough for Romney. He is already losing; you don't make up ground by being mediocre. Romney needs to undo the damage he sustained, and that means a home run. Nothing else would do.
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Old 2012-09-29, 17:44   Link #835
james0246
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokukirin View Post
Most people predict Obama to perform better than Romney in debates because the president is a renowned speaker, but this expectation probably helps Romney in the end. As long as he can hold his ground, avoid major mistakes, and make himself a better known person, Romney can consider the debate a success and probably make gains in polls. On the other hand, even if Obama "wins" the debate, that is merely what people expect to happen.
The content of the debates matter less than presentation during the debates. George W., Ronald Reagan, JFK, etc all had bad debates, but they looked like a proper candidate and they seemed presidential. They could connect with an audience even if their message was often muddled or simply not there.

Mitt Romney's greatest challenge isn't giving good substantive answers (he has come close to doing so in the Republican debates), rather it is his complete inability to actually connect with anyone (one of ganbaru's articles linked above discusses this issue). (John McCain faced a similar problem in 2008...which led to him choosing Sarah Palin as a running mate (which I am thankful for, since it ruined her political career before it even started).)
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Old 2012-09-29, 17:53   Link #836
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
The content of the debates matter less than presentation during the debates. George W., Ronald Reagan, JFK, etc all had bad debates, but they looked like a proper candidate and they seemed presidential. They could connect with an audience even if their message was often muddled or simply not there.

Mitt Romney's greatest challenge isn't giving good substantive answers (he has come close to doing so in the Republican debates), rather it is his complete inability to actually connect with anyone (one of ganbaru's articles linked above discusses this issue). (John McCain faced a similar problem in 2008...which led to him choosing Sarah Palin as a running mate (which I am thankful for, since it ruined her political career before it even started).)
The interesting thing, is that I once thought Romney couldn't sound presidential. For the majority of the election I see Romney being uncomfortable with his own skin.

Until recently, I thought that's his default state.

But then the leaked recording at the fundraiser dinner appeared. Romney was shown to be articulate, confident, and believed every word he was saying. What he SAID at the dinner was borderline evil. But HOW he said it, was presidential.

So I now think Romney can be presidential, but only if he was free to say what he truly believed. What's the chance of Romney being frank in the debates?
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Old 2012-09-29, 18:11   Link #837
monsta666
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
So I now think Romney can be presidential, but only if he was free to say what he truly believed. What's the chance of Romney being frank in the debates?
Would really depend on what his frank opinions are but if his opinions are borderline evil as you suggest, then it is likely if Romney were perfectly frank he would alienate a large chunk of his voting base and thus jeopardise his chances of winning. Romney is an intelligent man and if he knew his true believes would win votes he would voice them. The fact he is not suggests he is aware that speaking the truth is political suicide. This concious decision to not be frank about his true thoughts would explain why Romney seemingly acts timid, wooden and unpresidential as he is acting out a persona that does not reflect his true character. It is a dilemma and one that puts him at a disadvantage to Obama.
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Old 2012-09-29, 19:10   Link #838
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsta666 View Post
Would really depend on what his frank opinions are but if his opinions are borderline evil as you suggest, then it is likely if Romney were perfectly frank he would alienate a large chunk of his voting base and thus jeopardise his chances of winning. Romney is an intelligent man and if he knew his true believes would win votes he would voice them. The fact he is not suggests he is aware that speaking the truth is political suicide. This concious decision to not be frank about his true thoughts would explain why Romney seemingly acts timid, wooden and unpresidential as he is acting out a persona that does not reflect his true character. It is a dilemma and one that puts him at a disadvantage to Obama.
Although to be fair, people do not expect politicians to be saints. What Romney failed at was that he couldn't lie very well. If he can't even sound sincere, then there is no benefit in lying.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of bad men and women in both political parties. They are just good at hiding it. Romney seriously need to attend acting classes. He need to tell lies convincingly, or there is just no point.
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Old 2012-09-29, 23:20   Link #839
GuidoHunter_Toki
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I honestly find it hilarious how there are such uninformed people out there who get to vote.

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Old 2012-09-30, 02:14   Link #840
Sugetsu
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^ Don't even get me started on the republican side, all I have to do is type the word Mississippi.
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