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Old 2012-10-01, 23:27   Link #2521
zeroron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyr Valein View Post
First, I know why the Scub is called Scub Coral, anybody who has been debating up to this point and at this depth should.
Second, I hadn't talked about Naru at all really (except to wonder why coral carriers were necessary in the first place), so I'm not sure where you got that I didn't watch Eureka 7. In fact, I've been watching over and over just so I can get a better idea of where things don't make sense in AO. Diane explained the origins of the Scub Coral well enough in episode 47.



Its never said that the rain of Scub Coral that destroyed the rocket "Eureka" from the original series originated from another universe. We still don't really know where the Scub Coral originates from, even at this point. Even the fact that Renton is moving from universe to universe doesn't confirm that, especially considering that the Scub never did stuff like this before or was even aware of its ability to occupy a multitude of dimensions at one time.

We still don't know what this "quarantine" is, or why the Scub is destroying worlds. Especially when the Scub we know and love would never do things like this. Or at least that's what the original E7 would have us believe. If the Scub is truly a dimension hopping entity, why hasn't the Scub from E7 met up with the Scub from other universes and given them the proof that humankind can live together with them and they don't need to commit genocide on a multidimensional level?



I WAS paying attention. I understand that Naru became a coral carrier thanks to the Scub's attempt to co-opt a Secret. The question is WHY would the Scub start turning people into Coral Carriers at Naru's behest? Surely the Scub would know better. I guess you can say the Scub might have thought it was a good idea at the time to bring it and humans closer together but its never stated what it was thinking. All we know is Naru says "jump!" and the Scub Coral has been asking "how high?"

And even then, all this STILL doesn't explain why the Scub Coral hasn't tried to contact Ao yet (or why he isn't just privy to Scub communications telepathically like his mother was). Or why it hadn't contacted Eureka immediately. Or why there's been no Antibody Coralians or anything of the sort. The Scub didn't try to assimilate any of the cities that had been attacked with Orange, the first thing it did was respond to the attack with antibodies.




You beat me to it this time I see. But yeah, basically what you said. It just adds to the confusion that theEND was whole and everything. Or why there were Monsoonos around it. I get the feeling that it was just nostalgia-bait and we will never know what the hell that was about.
just throught this out there so bear with me but what if the reason scubs havent contact eukera or ao becuase there from the future logically your past self would have no knowledge of your future self or any of the action and reaction that occured in the future TIME TRAVEL PARADOX BABY!!!!!!!!!😱

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Originally Posted by Tyr Valein View Post
That's what the ending of episode 22 implies. But the question of the day is WHYYY?!!!!!

The Scub was supposed to have reached enlightenment. Did it suddenly renege on its decision and decide to exterminate humanity? Maybe we'll find out in episodes 23/24, maybe not.
i e got it for sure this time remember when the nirvash left it only took HALF the scub with it to avoid reach the limit of question the question we need to ask out self is the the same as in the first series WHAT HAPPEN WHEN THE SCUB REACH THE LIMIT OF QUESTIONS😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-10-02 at 01:29. Reason: Please edit your post and refrain from double posting...
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Old 2012-10-01, 23:34   Link #2522
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
once a gain im not calling the achetype its self the nirvash im using nirvash as a term to describe LFO's that have sentience from having a coralien pilots emotion etched in them.
Then you're using it wrong. TheEND didn't have a Coralian pilot, just a girl modified to be like one. TheEND also just shed its paint, hardly on the level of the Nirvash.

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Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
second yo use theEND's atypical cockpit isnt a valid excuse either.
Yes, it is. As the cockpit is of a design unlike any other, you cannot factually claim it possesses no Compac Drive, because you have no way of proving there is a space where a Compac Drive should be but isn't. Your entire argument is based on the assumption that it does not have one, but you can't prove that it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
third if the nirvash evolveto spec3 what would be the purpose of devolving at thats basicaly revert back to a state when it couldnt utilize thenseven swell to the full wouldnt it make more sense to evole again with a new form with the right amount of power to help renton find eureka just like it did in episode 50 and 51.
This makes no sense. The Seven Swell could be used by any form of the Nirvash, not just the third. There's also no explanation for where it came from.

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Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
and finally the part that will blow your mind the amita drive can be duplicated due to the fact that it wasnt discovered it was built by adrock so what to say that new genius better that axel and adrock couldnt recreate it and even go as far as to analyze the satori program and duplicate that as well and implicating in on an LFO thats retrofitted. p.s. the nirvash didnt have homing laser but now it does why would an LFO that can use a concentrated trapar ball as a weapon need lasers
You can't duplicate a technology you don't understand, certainly not reliably. Adroc was the one who built it and he took that knowledge to his grave. Axel is a ref mechanic, not a programmer.

As for the Nirvash's armament, why would Renton arm the new Nirvash, which he was ostensibly designing during a time of peace, with such a massive arsenal? At worst, he installed the homing lasers because he wanted extra armament. The Seven Swell isn't a consistent superweapon.
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Old 2012-10-01, 23:37   Link #2523
Tyr Valein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
once a gain im not calling the achetype its self the nirvash im using nirvash as a term to describe LFO's that have sentience from having a coralien pilots emotion etched in them. second yo use theEND's atypical cockpit isnt a valid excuse either. third if the nirvash evolveto spec3 what would be the purpose of devolving at thats basicaly revert back to a state when it couldnt utilize thenseven swell to the full wouldnt it make more sense to evole again with a new form with the right amount of power to help renton find eureka just like it did in episode 50 and 51. and finally the part that will blow your mind the amita drive can be duplicated due to the fact that it wasnt discovered it was built by adrock so what to say that new genius better that axel and adrock couldnt recreate it and even go as far as to analyze the satori program and duplicate that as well and implicating in on an LFO thats retrofitted. p.s. the nirvash didnt have homing laser but now it does why would an LFO that can use a concentrated trapar ball as a weapon need lasers
To be honest, the typeZERO didn't have a Compac Drive at all until Renton put it in. The purpose of the Compac Drive is to facilitate communication between the human pilot and the coralian archetype. Before Renton arrived, Eureka didn't need to use one because she could communicate directly with typeZERO's archetype. Anemone could do the same. No one ever said that the Amita Drive couldn't be duplicated, just that there is absolutely NO proof that it has, in fact, been copied by Renton.

As for why the Nirvash has homing lasers now, the writers are trying pretty hard to consolidate concepts from the movie universe into the TV series. Or they forgot the original Spec2 didn't use lasers. OR they thought that the typeZERO not having any projectile weapons besides boomerang knives was boring and wanted to make it cooler (if RA272's prodigious armament of guns is any clue). I personally think its a mix of all three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
just throught this out there so bear with me but what if the reason scubs havent contact eukera or ao becuase there from the future logically your past self would have no knowledge of your future self or any of the action and reaction that occured in the future TIME TRAVEL PARADOX BABY!!!!!!!!!😱
I don't think you were listening to what I was saying before. The Scub is emigrating from the orignal AO universe/timetraveling to the past from the future, whatever. The Scub that Eureka and Renton noted were going missing were moving to AO's universe. Proven by when Eureka was transported there within a huge chunk of Scub they were experimenting with. If the Scub is coming from a place Eureka has been, how would it not know her?

I must admit...I don't understand what you're getting at. Your theories become more and more baffling by the hour.
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Old 2012-10-01, 23:47   Link #2524
zeroron
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Originally Posted by Tyr Valein View Post
To be honest, the typeZERO didn't have a Compac Drive at all until Renton put it in. The purpose of the Compac Drive is to facilitate communication between the human pilot and the coralian archetype. Before Renton arrived, Eureka didn't need to use one because she could communicate directly with typeZERO's archetype. Anemone could do the same. No one ever said that the Amita Drive couldn't be duplicated, just that there is absolutely NO proof that it has, in fact, been copied by Renton.

As for why the Nirvash has homing lasers now, the writers are trying pretty hard to consolidate concepts from the movie universe into the TV series. Or they forgot the original Spec2 didn't use lasers. OR they thought that the typeZERO not having any projectile weapons besides boomerang knives was boring and wanted to make it cooler (if RA272's prodigious armament of guns is any clue). I personally think its a mix of all three.



I don't think you were listening to what I was saying before. The Scub is emigrating from the orignal AO universe/timetraveling to the past from the future, whatever. The Scub that Eureka and Renton noted were going missing were moving to AO's universe. Proven by when Eureka was transported there within a huge chunk of Scub they were experimenting with. If the Scub is coming from a place Eureka has been, how would it not know her?

I must admit...I don't understand what you're getting at. Your theories become more and more baffling by the hour.
what im trying to say is what make the nirvash so unique (the amita drive) might not be so special its self p.s my reference to axel was on hes mechanic skills not just the board.
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Old 2012-10-01, 23:52   Link #2525
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
what im trying to say is what make the nirvash so unique (the amita drive) might not be so special its self p.s my reference to axel was on hes mechanic skills not just the board.
His mechanical skills do not translate into complex programming. You don't seem to understand that these skill sets are distinct.

The Amita Drive didn't make the Nirvash unique. Its archetype is what made the Nirvash unique. The Amita Drive only served to unlock that power.
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Old 2012-10-01, 23:56   Link #2526
Tyr Valein
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Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
what im trying to say is what make the nirvash so unique (the amita drive) might not be so special its self p.s my reference to axel was on hes mechanic skills not just the board.
I understand what you're saying, and am trying to politely infer that you are wrong.

List of things Nirvash typeZERO has done that no other LFOs in the series has done:

- First archetype ever found/found with Eureka
- Only LFO with room for two seats from the start
- Only LFO with the capability to exceed the specifications of its mechanical components (as stated by Charles when he couldn't catch up despite the Spearhead being superior spec-wise)
- Only LFO to ever use the Seven Swell (admittedly, with the Amita Drive)
- Only LFO besides theEND to move on its own/display sentience/converse with its pilot
- Only LFO besides theEND capable of becoming the Command Cluster (As stated by Dr.Bear when explaining Dewey's plan)
- WAS the shortest LFO ever due to the small size of its archetype, but became the first and ONLY LFO to grow in size and shape (to better accomodate a plane-like form), (noted by any of the Tresor scientists during the Nirvash's upgrade)
- was specifically stated by Norb to be the boat that was designed to carry Eureka and her human partner across the Zone to the Promised Land (Earth)

Did I miss anything?

Bottomline: The Nirvash typeZERO is VERY, VERY unique. Putting the Amita Drive on the Compac Drive in your Monsoono or Scud Bike will NOT turn it into a Nirvash or make it badass or ANYTHING.

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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
The Amita Drive didn't make the Nirvash unique. Its archetype is what made the Nirvash unique. The Amita Drive only served to unlock that power.
EXACTLY. THIS is why I have a problem with so many Nirvashes all of a sudden. We know that RA272 is mechanical in nature and we can assume this new one is too. But they won't have what really makes Nirvash, Nirvash. And I think the writers might have forgotten that in their haste to be cool and awesome and hand out Nirvashes like cookies at a bake sale.

And don't forget giving those of us with epilepsy seizures with all the glowing eyes. It was cool in the original because it only happened only occasionally and before something really cool happened (usually the Seven Swell), but its happened more times in AO than it has in the entire previous series and for simple things, like just firing bullets or silly things like that. I'm thinking the writers just wanted to use that as a gimmick.
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Old 2012-10-02, 00:04   Link #2527
zeroron
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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
Then you're using it wrong. TheEND didn't have a Coralian pilot, just a girl modified to be like one. TheEND also just shed its paint, hardly on the level of the Nirvash.

Yes, it is. As the cockpit is of a design unlike any other, you cannot factually claim it possesses no Compac Drive, because you have no way of proving there is a space where a Compac Drive should be but isn't. Your entire argument is based on the assumption that it does not have one, but you can't prove that it doesn't. if theres no way to prove there is or isnt one were both wrong

This makes no sense. The Seven Swell could be used by any form of the Nirvash, not just the third. There's also no explanation for where it came from. i didnt say the seven swell was limited to the spec3 i said that the spec3 used the seven swell to its full potential unlike the spec2 that only used it to evole and raise trapar levels

You can't duplicate a technology you don't understand, certainly not reliably. Adroc was the one who built it and he took that knowledge to his grave. Axel is a ref mechanic, not a programmer. one whos to say he didnt come to understand it during 12 he had up until Ao. also axel is a skilled mechanic not just a ref board crafts so axels knowledege could have helped the outfitting process

As for the Nirvash's armament, why would Renton arm the new Nirvash, which he was ostensibly designing during a time of peace, with such a massive arsenal? At worst, he installed the homing lasers because he wanted extra armament. The Seven Swell isn't a consistent superweapon.
RA272 was made duringthe timewhen scubs started to diappear so he could have fear another antibody coralian incident propting him to make a nirvash with more weaponary. the seven swell may not be a super weapon but its stronger than any of the other weapons in the show beacuse it controlled trapar one ofvthe most important things in the series
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Old 2012-10-02, 00:08   Link #2528
morbosfist
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Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
RA272 was made duringthe timewhen scubs started to diappear so he could have fear another antibody coralian incident propting him to make a nirvash with more weaponary. the seven swell may not be a super weapon but its stronger than any of the other weapons in the show beacuse it controlled trapar one ofvthe most important things in the series
First off, antibodies only appear in response to the Scub being attacked. Vanishing Scub is not the same.

Second, the Seven Swell does not control trapar. It creates trapar.
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Old 2012-10-02, 00:08   Link #2529
zeroron
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tyr i see what you mean and your right i yeld but you morobo you will yeld to me
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Old 2012-10-02, 00:14   Link #2530
Tyr Valein
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Originally Posted by zeroron View Post
RA272 was made duringthe timewhen scubs started to diappear so he could have fear another antibody coralian incident propting him to make a nirvash with more weaponary. the seven swell may not be a super weapon but its stronger than any of the other weapons in the show beacuse it controlled trapar one ofvthe most important things in the series
I'm not sure about that, honestly. By that point, the events of the first series are long over. With Dewey gone and presumably no one else poking the leftover Scub Coral with a really big stick, there wouldn't be another antibody coralian incident. Plus the Scub Coral has already promised to co-exist peacefully with humanity. Raining death from the sky would kind of go back on that.

Even then, the typeZERO has never had any weapons but boomerang knives after Holland founded Gekkostate and later on, Eureka and Renton promised not to kill any more. Kind of hard to do that if you're armed to the teeth. He admitted he was making an exception when it came to killing the antibodies to get to Eureka in the Command Cluster. So I really can't see a reason for him to do that honestly.

The true reason for it is probably just that kids love guns and they can sell a lot more model kits and toys if the RA272 has a lot of interchangeable guns. Its common to do that. I just wish they wouldn't do it with E7 (note the lack of Monsoono model kits).

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Originally Posted by morbosfist View Post
First off, antibodies only appear in response to the Scub being attacked. Vanishing Scub is not the same.

Second, the Seven Swell does not control trapar. It creates trapar.
Darn, ninja'd again.

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tyr i see what you mean and your right i yeld but you morobo you will yeld to me
lolwut? well, tell me how that turns out, I'm going to bed.
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Old 2012-10-02, 00:14   Link #2531
zeroron
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morbo eat it! the first time mentioned axel and adrocks knowledge helping renton recreate the type zero. meant ther own respective feilds dipstick and i do understand that skill set are dustinct
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Old 2012-10-02, 00:14   Link #2532
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Sooooo, November, right?
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Old 2012-10-02, 00:18   Link #2533
Tyr Valein
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Sooooo, November, right?
Ya. I'm not really excited. Just want to see how they wrap things up and if there will be a second season (if Naru isn't Ao's sister, we still haven't seen her yet). This whole show has been kind of upsetting, really.

Okay, I'm seriously off to bed this time.
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Old 2012-10-02, 00:30   Link #2534
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Originally Posted by Tyr Valein View Post
Ya. I'm not really excited. Just want to see how they wrap things up and if there will be a second season (if Naru isn't Ao's sister, we still haven't seen her yet). This whole show has been kind of upsetting, really.

Okay, I'm seriously off to bed this time.
I'm excited though I do have doubts that it well end well. As for Ao's older sister, Naru has her own family, and Elena is from the past. If we are still assuming Eureka gave birth to her in this world, the only viable options left are Maggie and Fleur.
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Old 2012-10-02, 01:01   Link #2535
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Originally Posted by Kurohane View Post
But there were no scubs in that universe, only Eizo. Don't tell me the scubs aren't just invading only one universe.
If you hadn't figured it out yet Image in Pocketful of Rainbows are the Scub, at least the Command Node and Kute class are called Image . The Scub there is explicitly said to lack memories as such they sent 7 representatives, Anemone and Eureka among them to create memories as humanity has the capacity to dream.

The implication is that Humanity here is created from memories of humanity.

Pocketful of Rainbows Eureka and others like her were supposed to be a switch or black box that can trigger a connection to the original E7 universe. Eureka has a crystal within her that contains her memories. Which sounds to me is a Quartz in AO.

Like the Gekko crew in Pocketful of Rainbows those who are aware of the original universe are slightly bonkers.

Elena believed she came from the E7 universe. Naru believes it is her world's future. Truth... He is aware of the world when there was no Scub or Secrets.

Since Secrets themselves are not aware of their own origin and they are not enemies according to Eureka it is my guess they Scub without memories but has an instinctive obligation to protect the AO universe. A failsafe so to speak. So this world wont end up like others.
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Old 2012-10-02, 12:13   Link #2536
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We're now at 22 episodes, yet I feel as though the story is just going in circles; no progress. Quite boring.
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Old 2012-10-02, 15:12   Link #2537
zeroron
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what eurekas ultrasound was wrong
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Old 2012-10-02, 16:12   Link #2538
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I know this might be a dumb thing by me (since I don't really remember much of the details in AO), but didn't Secrets say they came to erase stuff that didn't belong in "this world" (in this case, Scub Coral/Quartz)?

Then, uhm... why did they appear before there were any Scub Coral/Quartz? Just checking things our or actually "removing" something? ^^''
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Old 2012-10-02, 18:46   Link #2539
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I know this might be a dumb thing by me (since I don't really remember much of the details in AO), but didn't Secrets say they came to erase stuff that didn't belong in "this world" (in this case, Scub Coral/Quartz)?

Then, uhm... why did they appear before there were any Scub Coral/Quartz? Just checking things our or actually "removing" something? ^^''
When did they ever appear when there wasn't Scub (besides recently)?
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Old 2012-10-02, 19:07   Link #2540
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When did they ever appear when there wasn't Scub (besides recently)?
17th century when Ben Franklin made his lightning experiment.

Scub bursts are considered natural disasters until recently.

AO world's history despite running parallel mostly to real history has significant differences due to bursts. That the population is around 3.5 billion not 7 billion.

Interestingly Johannson's book seems to be AO version of the Myth of Ageha in Pocketful of Rainbows. The Myth of Ageha describes Renton and Eureka's story in Eureka 7. Johannson's book describes the world before the Scub's arrival.
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