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Old 2012-10-02, 10:41   Link #21
zerodragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Maybe Rin was controlled by Madara/Zetsu.

There are some hints that Madara is behind this: Madara was sure that Obito will return to him, and Zetsu looking after Rin and Kakashi is also strange.

But it's difficult to believe that the master manipulator Tobi would not realize that the death of Rin was caused by Madara. And in that case Madara has nothing to do with this. But who knows, who would have believed that Obito will become the master manipulator in the first place
i agree with this, madara may haved plan this and i have two theories.

1. did anyone look at the arm from when obito first seen rin? it had looked like a Zetsu's arm, whe he gets to them he see kakashi?

correct me if i am wrong but zetsu can copy ablities and personity of people. could that kakashi been a fake Zetsu sended by madara! the fact that zetsu knew where Rin and Kakashi are being strange?

2. zetsus looking like rin may have attack kakashi and he could have kill her by mistake think she was fake.
this is what could have happen.
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Old 2012-10-02, 10:52   Link #22
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The Zetsu clone had mentioned something about 'experimental bodies' from the mist, it might have something to do with that. Add in the fact that they are fighting Mist ninja, who might have some mist illusion type jutsu (thinking Aizen's original description of his sword from bleach), and Kakashi attacked Rin unknowingly.

Anyways, the flashback is going nicely, although still a bit slow (last chapter really held it back, not much happened), we'll see how it turns out. If the explanations are bland, dunno if I can bear anymore
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Old 2012-10-02, 11:00   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Maybe Rin was controlled by Madara/Zetsu.

There are some hints that Madara is behind this: Madara was sure that Obito will return to him, and Zetsu looking after Rin and Kakashi is also strange.

But it's difficult to believe that the master manipulator Tobi would not realize that the death of Rin was caused by Madara. And in that case Madara has nothing to do with this. But who knows, who would have believed that Obito will become the master manipulator in the first place
that Madara said just by belief and not by any kind of planning, just look at his state he can't even go out like that on his own, and for him to plant genjutsu in rin not very convincing,
and Obito mentioned about rin and kakashi to zetsu that's why he went looking for them(may be he din't have anything better to do) and also they were getting little friendly with obito
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Old 2012-10-02, 11:25   Link #24
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that Madara said just by belief and not by any kind of planning, just look at his state he can't even go out like that on his own, and for him to plant genjutsu in rin not very convincing,
What Madara tells to people are lies. He said to Obito that he fell into his cave or something like that. But that's a lie, in this chapter we see that Obito was in Madara's secret base that we see in the beginning of the war too, that doesn't look like a place near the bridge. Madara was also the one who implanted his eyes into an Uzumaki, not a random child but specifically into an Uzumaki, so it seems he had plans with young boys just like Orochimaru
What if he had planned Nagato's early life and had a plan for Obito too, the old guy needed followers who have lost their beliefs due to some tragedies in their life so he can easily manipulate them by showing them a different goal in life. To manipulate children Zetsu is perfect, he is weak compared to kage or jounin but his skills of spying and at becoming fake people are ideal to trick children who are much more naive than adults. Obito always impersonating Madara - even when it makes no sense - seems to be some mental problem, but as we see he also becomes a master manipulator of people, as if he knew that Madara was manipulating him and Nagato too, so when he impersonates Madara he also manipulates people. But this is just one theory, it might be that extremely unlikely things just randomly happened

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Originally Posted by mystogan View Post
and Obito mentioned about rin and kakashi to zetsu that's why he went looking for them(may be he din't have anything better to do) and also they were getting little friendly with obito
That could be the case because it seems Zetsu as an android wants to learn about humans. But we know that Zetsu is also a good liar, when Tobi joins akatsuki Zetsu even has a debate with himself if they can let Tobi join akatsuki, but he knows exactly who Tobi is. So maybe Zetsu was playing the dumb guy so that Obtio would begin to trust him.
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Old 2012-10-02, 11:27   Link #25
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So Obito will get mad at Kakashi and the world without trying to find out what was the reason?
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Old 2012-10-02, 11:33   Link #26
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So Obito will get mad at Kakashi and the world without trying to find out what was the reason?
i dont know... it seems odd that tobi wouldn't have been able to put 2 and 2 together over the years and figure out what happened to rin. but no matter what, the end result of all this is that rin is dead. so even if tobi figured out what happened it still would be enough to change him to want the world to end as we know it. perhaps tobi did figure it out and that is why there seems to be a rift between him and edo-madara. it seems likely that they will turn on each other eventually. obito realizing that rin's death was all part of madara's plan would be sufficient for a betrayal
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Old 2012-10-02, 11:42   Link #27
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This would also be a great time to see whats under Kakashi's face mask. I can't believe we see what's under Tobi's mask first before we get to see Kakashi's.
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Old 2012-10-02, 11:58   Link #28
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This would also be a great time to see whats under Kakashi's face mask. I can't believe we see what's under Tobi's mask first before we get to see Kakashi's.
my guess is that there's a nose, lips and a chin. and if he talks, i bet he has teeth and a tongue in there too

that or it's a half-hashirama face like everyone else seems to have hidden these days seriously though, it would be sweet if he had one of those curly french mustaches
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Old 2012-10-02, 12:05   Link #29
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i still hope that this incident has nothing to do with madara, it will spoil the possible drama and the spark between obito, rin and kakashi i rather hope it to be due to some other independent reasons instead of just making madara the bad guy all over again
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Old 2012-10-02, 12:30   Link #30
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Originally Posted by mystogan View Post
i still hope that this incident has nothing to do with madara, it will spoil the possible drama and the spark between obito, rin and kakashi i rather hope it to be due to some other independent reasons instead of just making madara the bad guy all over again
Even if Madara/Zetsu is not directly involved it will undoubtedly turn out that he was aware of the entire incident and surrounding circumstances (or, better yet, Black Zetsu will be the head honcho and he will be aware of everything).
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Old 2012-10-02, 12:40   Link #31
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Oh wow...Kakashi....wth.
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Old 2012-10-02, 13:08   Link #32
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This flashback needs to end already I want to see fighting not more whinyto.

Madara kill Rin with Zetus help. He said "YOU WILL COME BACK AND THANK ME." These flashback are about as great as kabuto's. The more people that Madara has one his side and with his way of thinking he wins. I wish kishi never brought back Madara and left him dead After the VoE fight. Now it seem like every major thing is cause madara has planned it out. I know he was smart but come on it like naruto and kurama becoming best friends after 5 minutes.
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Old 2012-10-02, 13:46   Link #33
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Well, we know who killed Kakashi to obtain Mangekyo Sharingan now.
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Old 2012-10-02, 14:04   Link #34
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BAH!
Cliffhanger......

Why Kakashi, Why? Was it for power?
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Old 2012-10-02, 14:21   Link #35
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My response to that chapter:

Wut?

I thought Kakashi's aim was supposed to IMPROVE. He's still missing.

But seriously, that's totally out of nowhere. Kakashi killed Rin? There has to be a good reason for it.
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Old 2012-10-02, 14:31   Link #36
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I think I discovered the real reason why Kakashi killed Rin here

Spoiler for Cross-posted in the ridiculous picture thread:
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Old 2012-10-02, 14:32   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Well, we know who killed Kakashi to obtain Mangekyo Sharingan now.
Here we were all this time, thinking that Kakashi was the one exception to the rule, but it looks like he wasn't after all. It's kind of funny how I myself never thought about the possibility of Kakashi killing Rin as a result of some horrible circumstances and activating the MS by doing so. Then again, Kishimoto kind of led us into a different direction by only showing his Mankekyou Sharingan after the timeskip. I guess we all were under the assumption that Kakashi somehow obtained this power during the three years of Naruto's abscense. However, it may be the case that he had the MS all along, because he killed Rin, and just never used it. This begs the question why he didn't use it when Itachi attacked the village, but who really cares.

But yeah, there have to be very tragic circumstances in order to have Kakashi kill Rin. Maybe Kakashi is under a genjutsu, or maybe Rin is being controlled somehow ... I don't know. Perhaps Madara has something to do with it, but I have one problem with this theory. In the present, Obito knows that Kakashi probably didn't have a choice. That's because he said 'you let Rin die' and not 'you killed Rin'. This suggests that Obito knows what was going on at that time. So if Madara was behind it, there's no way Obito would have followed him and become Tobi. Maybe he just knows something, though, and not the whole truth. The next chapter will probably hold the answer to that.
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Old 2012-10-02, 14:35   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
I thought Kakashi's aim was supposed to IMPROVE. He's still missing.
Who says he missed?

Honestly, Rin probably deserved it....

Last edited by james0246; 2012-10-03 at 07:41.
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Old 2012-10-02, 14:36   Link #39
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by zerodragon View Post
correct me if i am wrong but zetsu can copy ablities and personity of people. could that kakashi been a fake Zetsu sended by madara! the fact that zetsu knew where Rin and Kakashi are being strange?
in this case, zetsu can't be copying kakashi since obito has a 'vision' through kakashi's sharingan of him killing rin. therefore it's the real kakashi. i'm guessing this implies that at close range, obito can indeed see through kakashi's sharingan as some people have speculated as being a possibility. its possible that obito was able to improve his vision through kakashi's sharingan over time as well and not have to be in close proximity to share vision. likewise, kakashi may figure out how to do this during their current fight and see through obito's sharingan at some point.

Quote:
2. zetsus looking like rin may have attack kakashi and he could have kill her by mistake think she was fake.
this is what could have happen.
yea, this is much more likely. that zetsu copied rin, attacked kakashi and then threw the real rin into the mix and kakashi killed her thinking it was another perfect clone of zetsu.

this is all pretty clearly set up by madara as far as i can tell. which also means that obito falling into his lap wasn't a coincidence as he told obito. which also makes for a much better story about madara's planning and not about madara's unbelievable luck.

another issue is going to be that it was never mentioned that kakashi killed rin whenever rin's death was brought up. i guess we'll have to wait and see how this plays out, but it's odd that even obito doesn't mention it to kakashi when he says 'you let rin die'. perhaps what we are seeing is just an illusion then? definitely can't wait for the next chapter(s)

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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Well, we know who killed Kakashi to obtain Mangekyo Sharingan now.
except that if rin is the reason, then what is with the massive delay in achieving MS? kakashi didn't have it prior to the timeskip, so between this scene and then there are many years without MS for him. it makes more sense to me that MS has to awakened during the traumatic event, not years after in reminiscence. also, kakashi is only shown with 2 tomoe still.

that said, it seems kishi will have to break some supposed rules for achieving MS when it comes to kakashi, shisui, and maybe obito so this is probably the reason kakashi has it
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Old 2012-10-02, 15:14   Link #40
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My guess is that his enemies were using that same assassination mist technique Zabuza used or some water mirror type thing that shows someone, something that isn't there. Maybe someone about to attack Rin, Kakashi reacted without thinking trying to protect her and bang, they pull a Aizen and it turns out the white haired guy stabbed the girl.
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