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Old 2012-10-03, 06:11   Link #21
Akito Kinomoto
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So they've got a prison sentence as punishment for downloading pirated material now eh. Do they have the same attitude about actually pirating said material? It's not going to be enforced much if at all but at least it would be consistent.
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Old 2012-10-03, 06:13   Link #22
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito Kinomoto View Post
So they've got a prison sentence as punishment for downloading pirated material now eh. Do they have the same attitude about actually pirating said material? It's not going to be enforced much if at all but at least it would be consistent.
I think it rather acts like a deterrent , like what the US music industry did to Tenenbaum after being persecuted for downloading some songs on Kazaa.
Eventhough it did not prevent people from downloading on the internet after his arrest, it's probably the mentaility that "downloading music is not legal" that counted.
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Old 2012-10-03, 06:17   Link #23
Akito Kinomoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
I think it rather acts like a deterrent , like what the US did to Tenenbaum when he downloaded some songs on Kazaa.
Eventhough it did not stop people now from downloading anything on the internet. after his arrest, it's probably the mentaility that "downloading music is not legal" that counted.
Exactly. A deterrent is the best they can hope for. ( ‿)
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Old 2012-10-03, 07:25   Link #24
Thany
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Hey, let's put it this way.

After Ishihara's bill that is supposed to "protect the children of Japan from questionable content in media", members of Tokyo's Government voiced their approval of the Yosuga no Sora anime series.

Same goes here. Laws are often used as decoration rather than as an implementing set of laws.
Yosuga no Sora isn't an anime for children, so this bill doesn't apply to it. The same goes for any anime that airs in the night.
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Old 2012-10-03, 07:55   Link #25
hyl
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Originally Posted by Thany View Post
Yosuga no Sora isn't an anime for children, so this bill doesn't apply to it. The same goes for any anime that airs in the night.
The problem was that the YnS anime could be sold to minors, eventhough it had sexual scenes with characters that were under 18 as well.
Also there was a debate about the incest theme in the anime.
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Old 2012-10-03, 08:04   Link #26
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post

Also from what i have read on a japanese blogs, this new law does bring up some new questions.
Like if it's a crime or not for watching something on youtube or nico nico douga, seeing that the content is technically downloaded on your computer.
If they burn Nico their heads need to roll....the amount of original and freely open material Nico contributes to the otaku scene is immense


Apart from that, this will really hurt uploaders more...People in Japan themselves don't really need to download


Won't stop the flow though...they just upload with the help of their China pirate comrades
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Old 2012-10-03, 08:39   Link #27
Random32
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
people downloading any kind of media (music, games, shows on tv) does hurt the industry even if it's considered normal for many people these days.
This is false. People illegally downloading who would have otherwise bought hurt the industry.

1 download != 1 lost sale. It's not even a fraction of a LOST sale, it's a fraction of a sale. Illegal downloads are free advertising, the biggest pirates are the biggest buyers. Sure there are some cheapasses that download instead of buying things that they would have bought otherwise, but I think for the most part, illegal downloads are from people who are trying things out, lack money to buy, or for whatever other reason wouldn't buy even if they couldn't get it for free.

For anime specifically. http://www.rieti.go.jp/en/publicatio.../11010021.html

Government study. Concludes that Youtube (illegal streams) boost DVD sales, and Winy (P2P downloads) does not have an affect on sales. However, its only a correlation and may or may not be causal.
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Old 2012-10-03, 08:45   Link #28
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaRealist View Post
Yeah, Japan has a lot of crazy moral laws that really make no sense to me. For example, you can get serious prison time in Japan for smoking weed. How lame is that?

One reason I would never go there.
I consider that law to be one of the most responsible ones, and can't really get all the pot-loving.


Back to topic: Most likely this law will be used against serious offenders, those that make money off such pirated content. The point to most Japanese laws (aside from the fore-mentioned decoration purposes) is to be able to have a stick to use when there is an outright violation of basic principles. Japan is a civil law state, so there needs to be something actually written in the books to ensure that someone can be sentenced.

This reminds me of the incident where DVD ripping (or something like that) CDs were distributed with a magazine: the police cracked down on that case because the CDs were part of a magazine that needed to be bought, thus being a form of "profit". Regardless of the intentions of the distributor, the fact was the CDs were basically paid for, and to let that go when there is a firm law in force is to basically render that law powerless when you need it against serious offenders. As was mentioned, if those CDs were distributed by itself and without any money being received, it would have been entirely legal.
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Old 2012-10-03, 08:51   Link #29
hyl
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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
This is false. People illegally downloading who would have otherwise bought hurt the industry.

1 download != 1 lost sale. It's not even a fraction of a LOST sale, it's a fraction of a sale. Illegal downloads are free advertising, the biggest pirates are the biggest buyers. Sure there are some cheapasses that download instead of buying things that they would have bought otherwise, but I think for the most part, illegal downloads are from people who are trying things out, lack money to buy, or for whatever other reason wouldn't buy even if they couldn't get it for free.

For anime specifically. http://www.rieti.go.jp/en/publicatio.../11010021.html

Government study. Concludes that Youtube (illegal streams) boost DVD sales, and Winy (P2P downloads) does not have an affect on sales. However, its only a correlation and may or may not be causal.
In all seriousness while we are talking about animes in japan, how many people in this forum actually buy discs of their favorite series from japan?
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Old 2012-10-03, 08:53   Link #30
Sumeragi
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How many people CAN buy without paying prohibitively high transportation costs?
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Old 2012-10-03, 08:55   Link #31
hyl
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
How many people CAN buy without prohibitively high transportation prices?
Does that excuse all the downloading? I can easily say the same for every music and movie that i wanted to see and hear, but don't want to shell out a single dollar.
The costs of anime discs from japan are indeed high, but the reasons for that is an entire different topic that i am not going to start.
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Old 2012-10-03, 08:58   Link #32
Sumeragi
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I was talking about the specific case of people in Animesuki buying DVDs of their favorite anime series. Why the sudden leap to all downloads?
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Old 2012-10-03, 09:04   Link #33
hyl
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I was talking about the specific case of people in Animesuki buying DVDs of their favorite anime series. Why the sudden leap to all downloads?
Weren't we in the subject of downloading and not buying in the first place?
That most people here can't buy the discs, is pretty obvious to begin with. That's the reason why i brought that up as a counter argument against random32's post.
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Old 2012-10-03, 09:09   Link #34
Kimidori
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I doubt we would have that much anime licensed for legal distribution in the US if not for people watch it on legal or illegal stream first.
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Old 2012-10-03, 09:24   Link #35
hyl
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Originally Posted by Kimidori View Post
I doubt we would have that much anime licensed for legal distribution in the US if not for people watch it on legal or illegal stream first.
I am not going more off topic , so i am going to make my only reply on this subject in this thread.
Ignoring that the anime hype died down in the US quite some years ago (and it pretty much has never recovered) the japanese producers don't get too much out these licences and those licences are probably mostly extras for them.
Their primary way of earning back their losses comes from the disc and merchandise (which sometimes can also be music cd's or games related to that anime) sales, that's why the animes these days don't tend to target foreign audiences. Also that's why there is such a huge price difference between an anime disc for the US and Japan. For a blu-ray in japan (with just 2 episodes) you have to pay almost $90.

As for the legal streams (like crunchyroll) in the US, i am going to be blunt about it but i don't think it's working that well. Besides that i don't think enough people are paying members, their selection is pretty limited as well (some of Crunchyroll's content are not even available for outside of the US ).

Last edited by hyl; 2012-10-03 at 09:36.
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Old 2012-10-03, 11:16   Link #36
Random32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
In all seriousness while we are talking about animes in japan, how many people in this forum actually buy discs of their favorite series from japan?
Probably a low percentage. I try to buy when possible, but its very expensive, especially when you take shipping into consideration. Also, most of the American anime fandom seems to be teens/20's, who generally don't have thousands of dollars just lying around to spend on anime.

Yes, the conversion between illegal watching to purchasing is low, but out of the purchasers, I think the number that watch it illegal first is very high.

Quote:
Does that excuse all the downloading? I can easily say the same for every music and movie that i wanted to see and hear, but don't want to shell out a single dollar.
The costs of anime discs from japan are indeed high, but the reasons for that is an entire different topic that i am not going to start.
Does anyone here have the money to buy anime from Japan blindly? Most of the people here don't have the money to spend buying anime they already like.

If you have an intention to buy if you think its worth it and you can afford it, all downloading is justified. The only non-justified illegal downloading is downloading specifically with intent to replace a purchase.
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Old 2012-10-03, 11:32   Link #37
Ithekro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Question: was the original purpose when you bought a computer the same as buying a TV: to watch shows broadcasted on cable or satelite?


While i am no saint myself (eventhough i do buy some things that i really like from japan), but people downloading any kind of media (music, games, shows on tv) does hurt the industry even if it's considered normal for many people these days.

Also from what i have read on a japanese blogs, this new law does bring up some new questions.
Like if it's a crime or not for watching something on youtube or nico nico douga, seeing that the content is technically downloaded on your computer.

No, but the anime content that would normally be avalible to me with the cable package for TV is not avalible. If it was I could simply record it off the TV and watch it later.

Since it is not avalible, the internet is the primary means of equalizing that issue. If I want to buy the DVD or BD later on (there are plenty of older American series owned here that we recorded on VHS or even Betamax in the 1980s) I will. In a few cases I have. But most anime episodes I see once, and that is it. Just like television, except I don't have that option normally to just turn on the TV to see it.

For something like Space Battleship Yamato 2199, I did buying the BD. One because I've been a fan for a long time and plan to watch it more than once, but also because it was not avalible on TV. It was shown in theaters. It can be seen on the internet, but I have the BD.
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Old 2012-10-03, 11:34   Link #38
hyl
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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post

Yes, the conversion between illegal watching to purchasing is low, but out of the purchasers, I think the number that watch it illegal first is very high.
To get break-even, around 3-4k discs need to be sold.
If you have seen the disc sales thread
(http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=109699)
then you know that sales are not that high, because they are targeted for a pretty niche martket.

I have no idea if the japanese people who buys anime, watch them illegally with downloads. Because they actually don't have to , seeing that they can already watch animes legally on their tv's (unless they missed it or want to watch certain animes sooner, because their local tv air that specific anime on a later day)

If uploading and downloading anime is no longer allowed, i think it will rather hurt the foreign viewers more than the japanese viewers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Does anyone here have the money to buy anime from Japan blindly? Most of the people here don't have the money to spend buying anime they already like.
Does anyone on certain psp and ds (and other handheld/console games) sites buy their games legally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
If you have an intention to buy if you think its worth it and you can afford it, all downloading is justified. The only non-justified illegal downloading is downloading specifically with intent to replace a purchase.
Your interpretation/conclusion is lacking a middle ground.
You make it sound that it's also justified that people may download things on the internet if they can't afford it? >_>


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
No, but the anime content that would normally be avalible to me with the cable package for TV is not avalible. If it was I could simply record it off the TV and watch it later.

Since it is not avalible, the internet is the primary means of equalizing that issue. If I want to buy the DVD or BD later on (there are plenty of older American series owned here that we recorded on VHS or even Betamax in the 1980s) I will. In a few cases I have. But most anime episodes I see once, and that is it. Just like television, except I don't have that option normally to just turn on the TV to see it.

For something like Space Battleship Yamato 2199, I did buying the BD. One because I've been a fan for a long time and plan to watch it more than once, but also because it was not avalible on TV. It was shown in theaters. It can be seen on the internet, but I have the BD.
And you make it sound justified that you can download things, just because it's not available in your country.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-10-03 at 11:48.
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Old 2012-10-03, 11:58   Link #39
Akito Kinomoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
And you make it sound justified that you can download things, just because it's not available in your country.
Doesn't that depend on whether or not the show is protected by international copyright?
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Old 2012-10-03, 12:03   Link #40
hyl
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Originally Posted by Akito Kinomoto View Post
Doesn't that depend on whether or not the show is protected by international copyright?
Copyright laws can be a bit tricky, but if we look at this old thread

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=58005

it seems that unlicensed animes are even protected by international copyright laws
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