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Old 2012-10-01, 21:21   Link #381
Archon_Wing
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X_X Just because some people involved with the show are dicks doesn't mean one should take it out on the show itself. That would just be making the problem worse. It's already bad enough some of the ragers targeted people that didn't deserve it at all.
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Old 2012-10-02, 06:36   Link #382
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I think so, and it's quite saddening, actually.
Personally, I don't see why this is such a huge problem. It's all just a publicity stunt. You shouldn't be entering the celebrity world if you can't take the negative. And this sort of thing seems positively mild compared to what celebrities can end up going through (EG being stalked).

This feels more like some friendly ribbing, not bullying. For it to be bullying it would have to be much more sustained.

Anyway, I've gone to fake job interviews before. It doesn't feel that bad. It's no different from going to a job interview and getting rejected, to be honest (though it is annoying as they've just wasted your time). Anyway, I'm sure this guy is still getting paid to drive the PR van etc.

But then I come from a country where you really know you're friends with a person if you can routinely tease or insult one another ("slagging") without any hard feelings. Elaborate pranks would come under that too.
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Old 2012-10-03, 19:53   Link #383
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But then I come from a country where you really know you're friends with a person if you can routinely tease or insult one another ("slagging") without any hard feelings. Elaborate pranks would come under that too.
I always believe that jokes are half-meant, so I think that these d-bags half-wanted to trample on the guy's interest to join the project.
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Old 2012-10-04, 03:32   Link #384
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I always believe that jokes are half-meant, so I think that these d-bags half-wanted to trample on the guy's interest to join the project.
I'm quite sure they wanted him on the project, so this whole thing was just a publicity stunt more than anything.

No hard feelings from them.
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Old 2012-10-04, 04:23   Link #385
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Of all the publicity stunts to do, they decided that pranking him would be the best.
Well, sales show that nothing really changed.
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Old 2012-10-04, 04:48   Link #386
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I always believe that jokes are half-meant, so I think that these d-bags half-wanted to trample on the guy's interest to join the project.
Nonsense. I routinely call a friend of mine an prod who wants to keep the good people of Ireland down (his family is protestant you see), when of course I know he doesn't mean anything of the sort. Likewise he accuses me of being rich jew plotting to take over the world (I have a jewish background you see). It's just teasing, and the truth is that we're both atheists and we're just kidding around.

What we have hear is a case of cultural misunderstanding. As far as I'm aware the Japanese have some similar attitudes to the Irish. They see pranks and teasing as the ultimate way to show you're in the "group". If I got pranked I'd actually feel flattered. Though some pranks might be out of line, I don't consider this one of them.
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Old 2012-10-04, 07:35   Link #387
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^ Except pranks of this magnitude would not be done if it has that purpose. You are taking your own experience and mindset in the lot, while the context is absolutely different.
A fake interview would stop right there, as in: after the audition. Dragged to a public event while being promised something completely different is already bad enough, being shown as a laughing stock is even worse, which is especially insulting for Asians (the only exceptions are TV shows that had that very purpose as its core, like the gimmick goofy games and all).
The vast majority of the japanese observers were outraged by that, which demonstrate how the public sees it: tasteless for the lack of better words, to the point the commity had to pull excuses to stop the reactions, considering their reactions.

So culture wise, that was absolutely not something they would tolerate, and thus not what you claim it is.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:02   Link #388
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
^ Except pranks of this magnitude would not be done if it has that purpose. You are taking your own experience and mindset in the lot, while the context is absolutely different.
A fake interview would stop right there, as in: after the audition. Dragged to a public event while being promised something completely different is already bad enough, being shown as a laughing stock is even worse, which is especially insulting for Asians (the only exceptions are TV shows that had that very purpose as its core, like the gimmick goofy games and all).
The vast majority of the japanese observers were outraged by that, which demonstrate how the public sees it: tasteless for the lack of better words, to the point the commity had to pull excuses to stop the reactions, considering their reactions.

So culture wise, that was absolutely not something they would tolerate, and thus not what you claim it is.
In that case, I'd say they had good intentions, but that it went wrong. Whenever you're pulling pranks you're always walking a fine line that you might go too far. This is one of those cases.

It certainly doesn't seem to me like Bullying. If this is bullying, it's pretty weak.

If I recall, Lucky Star had some similar shenanigans with Minoru Shiraishi, but there it was harmless fun. Though at least in that case Shiraishi actually got a role made for him.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:08   Link #389
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If the only way to be "in the group" is to prank or be pranked, I'd opt to stay out of the group.
I don't want to belong to some sadomasochistic social group.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:18   Link #390
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
If the only way to be "in the group" is to prank or be pranked, I'd opt to stay out of the group.
I don't want to belong to some sadomasochistic social group.
I don't know, pranking is fun. Depends on what you think is fun, I suppose.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:37   Link #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
In that case, I'd say they had good intentions, but that it went wrong. Whenever you're pulling pranks you're always walking a fine line that you might go too far. This is one of those cases.

It certainly doesn't seem to me like Bullying. If this is bullying, it's pretty weak.

If I recall, Lucky Star had some similar shenanigans with Minoru Shiraishi, but there it was harmless fun. Though at least in that case Shiraishi actually got a role made for him.
What good intentions? I can "buy" their attempt to make a public stunt with a very bad decision, culture and context wise, but good intentions towards the victim?
Nonsense. You have to consider the very context here: seiyuu industry is one of the harsher possible in the entertainment domain, and having a wasted interview is already a pain for the aspiring seiyuu (time is crucial to invest in every possible jobs available, so they don't have the luxury to waste it for joke and all), but the said fake interview led him to believe he would get a job, to the point he was overjoyed (which is a major step up compared to usual half baked production and/or very minor roles), and canceled few of his projects.

Japanese consider that bullying because the next step of this whole incident was way too far: dragging the victim into a needless and annoying event is one thing, then announcing him right from the bat he is not having any role, but instead will play the PR monkey (which is arguably not what his job and expectations were) is just a plain public humiliation no less, to which he was quite shocked, considering his last comment in the public events, and his twitter comments.
That's the very reason why it exploded in this fashion, and that's not even westerners making it worse than it is.

And no, Shiraishi situation was nowhere close the same. He made himself the goofy seiyuu to which he could get some limelight by portraying himself like an idiot.
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Old 2012-10-05, 08:59   Link #392
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Pranks in general aren't done for the sake of good intentions for the victim from major pranks to minor ones such as a water bucket over the door, so I think the point being made by DonQuigleone was that in his opinion it was done for some good-natured fun without malice involved.

This thread hasn't been updated with the latest occurrences though, so are there any links regarding the projects he cancelled?

Last edited by frivolity; 2012-10-05 at 09:18.
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Old 2012-10-05, 17:39   Link #393
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Not much recent occurrences I think.
The latest events are probably the change in OP from Shoumonainius, PSP game's commercial changed from Shoumonainius, and no more BD/DVD commercials aired, occurring to the Wiki on this incident.
http://www49.atwiki.jp/kokoro-ijimect/

Looks like more of the responsibility has hit euphonius than Yamanaka himself, unfortunately.
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Old 2012-10-05, 21:30   Link #394
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I think the moral lessons in this issue are "You don't have a right to be an asshole if there are spotlights aimed at you" and "You don't work with said assholes".

And what's the worst in all of this? Yamanaka got away with it, and everyone who find themselves involved with him (KitaEri, Eufonius, the two seiyuu whose names escape me) end up taking the full brunt of the fanbase's rage.
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Old 2012-10-05, 21:50   Link #395
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Funny how some names are in this too. Yamanaka may have gotten away with it but some prominent names like Kitamura, Eufonius, Terashima, Kanemoto, and the boycotting of products of Kokoro Connect. King Records and Starchild Label (under King Records) were also mentioned during this incident so, many names were involved when it should have been the bullies and the victim only.
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Old 2012-10-05, 22:17   Link #396
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Well, I realize that some people don't believe anything that was in the official statement, so there's nothing that can be said in that case.

But if you assume that there is at least some truth to what was said, then there was the box of what was planned and intended by the staff, and there are specific actions and behaviours that went outside that planned box. The people who will get the most blame (in some sort of official capacity) will be the ones who went outside the planned box (even if the whole thing was a bad idea from the get-go).

Now, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors. I don't think it's likely that *any* of the people involved, or anyone else in the anime industry for that matter, will try this sort of stunt again any time soon. Even if you think it was smoke and mirrors (there are always politics at play), for a production committee to have to make an official statement and apologize for earlier statement made by the staff... that's some serious stuff right there, even if it doesn't seem like it to some people. People may not be fired because of it (at least not publicly/officially), but don't think what happened won't be remembered in the industry. People who know more than we do will have their own opinions, even if they're keeping their mouths shut to preserve solidarity now. You never know what sort of information may come out later on down the road...


(This sort of reminds me how a lot of Western fiction is based on around a concept of "criminals coming to justice", with a strong emphasis on the link between crime and punishment. But I've found that a lot of Japanese fiction doesn't have that same bent; rather than having a criminal come to justice, there's an emphasis on dealing with failure privately, being shamed, and changing your ways. That's so much less satisfying from my Western point of view (I think "he/she got away with it!"), but I'm not sure that Japanese culture feels the same way about that. Having this get escalated all the way to the production committee level with that sort of official statement is probably the most that could be realistically achieved in this sort of case. Hence why so much of the fervour died down when that happened.)
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Old 2012-10-05, 22:42   Link #397
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If I am told that the people I wanted to work with are wasting my time and vice versa via things like this, I am burning my bridges with the company. I am not driving that van. I am telling that person. "F you, kiss my ass, go find someone else to do your job." Then I am storming out the door.

End of story. What a train wreck this has become. A sheer, unforgivable disgrace, and the guilty parties know it.
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Old 2012-10-05, 23:47   Link #398
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^ Posts like these show the wide gap between cultures, both between Japan and the west and also between industries.
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Old 2012-10-05, 23:52   Link #399
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^ Posts like these show the wide gap between cultures, both between Japan and the west and also between industries.
Seriously, this could have been handled properly. If I am going to be involved in a prank, I'd better be informed beforehand by the company and be given an option to opt-out. If the said company are going to apologize for this, do it ASAP and make it genuine. Don't drag it out. They did. Now they're paying the price.
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Old 2012-10-06, 00:01   Link #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Pranks in general aren't done for the sake of good intentions for the victim from major pranks to minor ones such as a water bucket over the door, so I think the point being made by DonQuigleone was that in his opinion it was done for some good-natured fun without malice involved.
I'm aware of that, so I should rephrase myself: there is no way you can have good intentions in general with the context at hand: toying with someone who is part of such kind of industry is really no laughing matter. At the very most, do it so the involved party won't have hope up too much and/or don't make them waste their time and money by bringing them for a public event.
Quote:
This thread hasn't been updated with the latest occurrences though, so are there any links regarding the projects he cancelled?
Some of them were implied by Ichiki himself on twitter, one of them was his intention to take part of EVO 2012, which he obviously couldn't since the events took place by the end of june and all.
Such a shame considering how skilled he is at KOF. At least, even if he would have spend a sizable amount of cash for this advent, it would be at least something he wanted to do, and not being dragged in a mess.
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