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Old 2012-10-03, 20:58   Link #61
relentlessflame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
For books there are things know as Libraries for that sort of thing. I seem to recall that finding anime in a public library in the United States (of the kind typically being discussed around here) to be fairly rare.
Well, sure, but nowadays, in the United States, you have Crunchyroll, Viz, The Anime Network, Funimation, Hulu, and official streams on Youtube. So nowdays, the library argument is pretty much gone. Probably a different story 5-10 years ago. (Besides, the library metaphor is a big broken in the sense that when one person borrowed a book, someone else couldn't have it. So it's really a model based on physical objects. The library had to buy those books, and often at inflated prices, in order to have the right to lend them out.)
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Old 2012-10-03, 22:20   Link #62
NinjaRealist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
For books there are things know as Libraries for that sort of thing. I seem to recall that finding anime in a public library in the United States (of the kind typically being discussed around here) to be fairly rare.
I found Nausicaa, Akira and Buddha, three of my all time favorite mangas at Louisville Free Public Library.

You never know.
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Old 2012-10-04, 05:07   Link #63
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
I can't understand what you mean. So you are saying that you don't want to pay for any animes, because you have already seen the and at the same time you want to pay for something that you haven't seen despite not knowing that you will like it or not?
That's like going in a video store and not buying your favorite movie, but blindly picking a random movie that you have not seen yet.
I'm not buying anime as a "commercial product". I'm giving money to anime as a contribution to the arts. If we look at things as they are now, with anime freely and easily downloadable for free, there isn't any need to ever buy anime. The only reason I would "buy" anime is to support the industry, not to buy their product (which I can already easily get for free). In this respect I would want their to be an understanding that the money I put into that DVD is going towards making more anime in the future.

The reality is that when you buy a DVD you're not paying for the production of that anime, that anime already exists and has been paid for. What you're doing is paying for the next production. If you think about it what you're talking about is even riskier to the consumer, because he has no idea what that money will be put towards. On the other hand, if I'm choosing to contribute $X to a particular project I'll probably have some character designs, a simple plot synopsis and the staff. So I can choose for my money to be put towards the next innovative Mecha show, and not have the studio choose to put my money towards yet another generic harem show.

Not only that, but if I were to donate 100% of my money will go to the studio. If, on the other hand, I buy a DVD it's probably closer to 30%, with the rest going to Amazon, various distributors, the DVD manufacturer, all people who are superfluous to the supply chain of getting the Anime into my hard drive. Really the only important people are the studio and translators. And translators have been shown to be willing to work for free so...
Quote:
As for paying for new shows, let's wait how this new "Kick-Heart" idea turns out to be.
Along the lines of what I'm getting at.
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Most people can so "afford things"; they've just decided to take them for free because they'd rather use their money on things they can't just take. The people who choose to spend their money on anime aren't just floating in cash they have no idea how to use; they simply "can't afford" other things that they might want instead. If I wanted to, I could very easily make it so that I "can't afford" anime just like everyone else. But I don't think that justifies using illegal channels to take it for free. Piracy has no justification, only rationalisation.
I don't know, a lot of anime fans (and people on this board) are students, who don't really have an income, and what money they have needs to go to basic necessities. The only luxury I ever spent money on was the occasional game (a medium I feel a bit more passionate about then Anime, and it costs less), and upgrading my computer.

But to be honest, as I said earlier, even if I did have the money, I probably still wouldn't spend it on anime. Anime isn't offering me the product I want. I have no interest in owning DVDs, and I don't want to see a large proportion of the money I put into industry be wasted on round pieces of plastic, and their distribution.
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Old 2012-10-04, 05:51   Link #64
hyl
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
But to be honest, as I said earlier, even if I did have the money, I probably still wouldn't spend it on anime. Anime isn't offering me the product I want. I have no interest in owning DVDs, and I don't want to see a large proportion of the money I put into industry be wasted on round pieces of plastic, and their distribution.
Let's look it at the other way around, this socalled piece of plastic is what they earn their money with.
The way you are making it sound is as if you can't appreciate a thing what those people (All the animators, seiyuus, producers etc.) are doing.
It's probably true that lots of people in this forum don't have an income and that's why i think that they don't know how the hardships of people who are working. People like youself only look at the product, while purely neglecting all the effort that was put into that work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
The reality is that when you buy a DVD you're not paying for the production of that anime, that anime already exists and has been paid for. What you're doing is paying for the next production. If you think about it what you're talking about is even riskier to the consumer, because he has no idea what that money will be put towards. On the other hand, if I'm choosing to contribute $X to a particular project I'll probably have some character designs, a simple plot synopsis and the staff. So I can choose for my money to be put towards the next innovative Mecha show, and not have the studio choose to put my money towards yet another generic harem show.
That product does exist and has been paid for , but it has not been paid back. I am not sure how you look at animes from a financial perspective, but i see them similar to an investment. There are people who invest money in a project and expect some kind of profit. If the investment turns out to pay out badly (or even end up in a loss), then it should be obvious that these kind of people won't be investing in it in the future.

If you even want to see a "next project", then you don't want the investors to leave because they won't have faith in that the next project will earn them anything.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-10-04 at 06:12.
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Old 2012-10-04, 07:20   Link #65
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If anime BD's had more eps in them then the price could be justified....

As they are now, I don't see how it makes financial sense to spend on the video portion of anime. They cost more than games and have far less content

If you love a series it's more worthwhile to buy other items like the original work that spawned the anime if it's an adaptation or artbooks and other extra content
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Old 2012-10-04, 07:52   Link #66
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[QUOTE=hyl;4380778]Let's look it at the other way around, this socalled piece of plastic is what they earn their money with.
The way you are making it sound is as if you can't appreciate a thing what those people (All the animators, seiyuus, producers etc.) are doing.
It's probably true that lots of people in this forum don't have an income and that's why i think that they don't know how the hardships of people who are working. People like youself only look at the product, while purely neglecting all the effort that was put into that work.
[quote] I have great respect for the Anime industry. I just want to give my money to them directly. Not through a dozen intermediaries.

It's like with games. Now I only buy games online, because I know that (depending on the website) over 70% of my money is going towards the original developers/publishers, not Gamestop. When I buy a Paradox grand strategy game (my favourite developer), I want my money to go to Paradox, not someone else. That's my prerogative as a consumer, and I will always buy from platforms where more of my money goes to the developers I love. The same goes for Anime. I don't give a damn about bestbuy, Bandai, Mediablasters, Aniplex or Funimation. They did good work in the past, but now they're a completely superfluous barrier between me and the creators.

Quote:
That product does exist and has been paid for , but it has not been paid back. I am not sure how you look at animes from a financial perspective, but i see them similar to an investment. There are people who invest money in a project and expect some kind of profit. If the investment turns out to pay out badly (or even end up in a loss), then it should be obvious that these kind of people won't be investing in it in the future.

If you even want to see a "next project", then you don't want the investors to leave because they won't have faith in that the next project will earn them anything.
I don't really care about the investors. I don't want the investors to choose which is the next anime to get developed. I want it to be ME, the consumer. I want to be the investor. While I applaud these investors for investing in the artform, I don't want them choosing what gets made based on what they think I, as a consumer, like or dislike. I want to be doing the choosing, directly.

Unfortunately, under the previous system, to be an investor you need to have a lot of money (and speak Japanese...), which is not possible for me. But I think through crowdfunding, this is possible.

Of course, there's always a risk that I'll donate to a project that turns out to be a dud, but on the flipside, when something amazing gets made I'm going to have the satisfaction of knowing that I helped make that happen. And not simply that I consumed it after the fact.

I want future anime production to work like Patronage, not consumer goods. In Patronage an artist goes to his patron and describes what he wants to create, and if the Patron finds it appealing, then the patron gives the artist his money. The Artist gets to create the great work that the Patron wants to see. And through this the artist might also gather enough extra profit to be able to self fund a project that he wants but that no patron cares for. Both the Artist and Patron wins, and it allows a scope for projects that may not be commercially viable or "toyetic" enough.

Basically I want to see a situation where us consumers collectively are the patrons, and not bean counting investors who are more concerned with commercial viability and minimizing risk.

I don't want to be an Anime consumer, I want to be an Anime Patron. Art should not be regarded as a consumer product. But those of us who want to see it should give money to those who make it happen (artists need to eat!).

Charging for access to it after the fact is pointless, because you can't stop people from seeing it without paying for it. It's pointless to even try. You have to charge for it before it's been created.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:01   Link #67
Sumeragi
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You know, the funny thing is, the law is mostly aimed at music and movies, those that are hit hard by pirating. Anime by itself is not as hardly hit in any sense, since DVDs are really a niche market (and lucrative enough to pay back investments, given that those that will buy the DVDs will buy the DVDs no matter what happens) and manga books are cheap enough to not stop people from buying. I'm not really seeing the point to the discussion of buying anime DVDs here.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:08   Link #68
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Well the US market in Anime DVDs is basically collapsing. And that was big enough to be a boon to Japanese producers. I can't say much about the Japanese market, but certainly if they want to get the potential money lying there in western Otaku wallets, they're not going to get anywhere with the previous "mass market DVD" approach. People just aren't as interested in buying DVDs anymore. And why should they be? DVDs are inferior to downloads in every respect.

But even in Japan, I think there's a lot of untapped potential. Let's not forget that the potential Otaku audience is somewhere around 1-5 million (someone else can give a better estimate), while most DVDs never sell more then 10,000 copies, with the best sellers selling 50,000. I bet that like in the west, there's a lot of Japanese Otaku who rarely or never buy DVDs, and that they make up maybe 90% of the audience. What the Japanese system is doing very well is exploiting the enthusiasts who are willing to spend craploads of money on the hobby.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:14   Link #69
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I have great respect for the Anime industry. I just want to give my money to them directly. Not through a dozen intermediaries.

It's like with games. Now I only buy games online, because I know that (depending on the website) over 70% of my money is going towards the original developers/publishers, not Gamestop. When I buy a Paradox grand strategy game (my favourite developer), I want my money to go to Paradox, not someone else. That's my prerogative as a consumer, and I will always buy from platforms where more of my money goes to the developers I love. The same goes for Anime. I don't give a damn about bestbuy, Bandai, Mediablasters, Aniplex or Funimation. They did good work in the past, but now they're a completely superfluous barrier between me and the creators.

I don't really care about the investors. I don't want the investors to choose which is the next anime to get developed. I want it to be ME, the consumer. I want to be the investor. While I applaud these investors for investing in the artform, I don't want them choosing what gets made based on what they think I, as a consumer, like or dislike. I want to be doing the choosing, directly.

Unfortunately, under the previous system, to be an investor you need to have a lot of money (and speak Japanese...), which is not possible for me. But I think through crowdfunding, this is possible.

Of course, there's always a risk that I'll donate to a project that turns out to be a dud, but on the flipside, when something amazing gets made I'm going to have the satisfaction of knowing that I helped make that happen. And not simply that I consumed it after the fact.

I want future anime production to work like Patronage, not consumer goods. In Patronage an artist goes to his patron and describes what he wants to create, and if the Patron finds it appealing, then the patron gives the artist his money. The Artist gets to create the great work that the Patron wants to see. And through this the artist might also gather enough extra profit to be able to self fund a project that he wants but that no patron cares for. Both the Artist and Patron wins, and it allows a scope for projects that may not be commercially viable or "toyetic" enough.

Basically I want to see a situation where us consumers collectively are the patrons, and not bean counting investors who are more concerned with commercial viability and minimizing risk.

I don't want to be an Anime consumer, I want to be an Anime Patron. Art should not be regarded as a consumer product. But those of us who want to see it should give money to those who make it happen (artists need to eat!).

Charging for access to it after the fact is pointless, because you can't stop people from seeing it without paying for it. It's pointless to even try. You have to charge for it before it's been created.
Now we are heading to a completely different subject, but whatever.

Of course everyone wants directly in control in what they want to see get created.
But you do know that you are wishing for something nearly impossible seeing how this capitalstic world works.
The individual consumer usually does not have the resources and the power to have any influence over any big projects in this world.
This is not just limited to anime, but for everything.

Also it seems you are boycotting this for the wrong reasons. Artists needs to eat, yes. But without any big projects, they won't be able to eat.
Not that i am defending how the anime industry (actually this applies to every major company) works, seeing that the top and the investors gets most of the profit while the rest of the staff just get paid based on their wages. But that is how the whole capitalistic system works .


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
But even in Japan, I think there's a lot of untapped potential. Let's not forget that the potential Otaku audience is somewhere around 1-5 million (someone else can give a better estimate), while most DVDs never sell more then 10,000 copies, with the best sellers selling 50,000. I bet that like in the west, there's a lot of Japanese Otaku who rarely or never buy DVDs, and that they make up maybe 90% of the audience. What the Japanese system is doing very well is exploiting the enthusiasts who are willing to spend craploads of money on the hobby.
Lots of series don't even get break-even by the disc sales alone, seeing that the majority of them don't sell 3-4k copies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
If anime BD's had more eps in them then the price could be justified....
As they are now, I don't see how it makes financial sense to spend on the video portion of anime. They cost more than games and have far less content
If you love a series it's more worthwhile to buy other items like the original work that spawned the anime if it's an adaptation or artbooks and other extra content
Well i did mention earlier that buying their discs or merchandise would help.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:18   Link #70
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And that's the point of the system. In an era where you can easily record broadcasts to watch later, does it make sense to try and crack down on "pirated" anime in the first place? Setting aside the issue of people outside of Japan (who are not under this law in the first place and have a much higher barrier t the market unless you're in Korea or Taiwan), the anime industry as a whole recognizes reality and have adjusted to it, with DVDs being more of getting back the investment and all other products (figures, OVAs, games, etc) being the ones that lead to extra income. It's because of the core way the system works that doujinshis and such can flourish without much problems: Doujinshis lead to the growth of the fan base, who might buy the DVDs (thus contributing to getting the investment back) and the related products (making a profit). Such a system does not really work for the music and movie industry, thus they were the ones pushing for this law.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:28   Link #71
hyl
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
And that's the point of the system. In an era where you can easily record broadcasts to watch later, does it make sense to try and crack down on "pirated" anime in the first place? Setting aside the issue of people outside of Japan (who are not under this law in the first place and have a much higher barrier t the market unless you're in Korea or Taiwan), the anime industry as a whole recognizes reality and have adjusted to it,
Your point of recorded shows and for people outside of japan is technically an issue related to a violation of copyrights. Which is a different problem than the current implemented law

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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
with DVDs being more of getting back the investment and all other products (figures, OVAs, games, etc) being the ones that lead to extra income.
Figures: The majority of the profit goes the people who make the figures
OAV: You do know it's technically a non broadcasted anime episode. Which means it has the same costs as an actual episode except for the costs related to reserving airing slots on tv.
games: Those are entirely different projects by themselves, with their own investments and costs.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:33   Link #72
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Now we are heading to a completely different subject, but whatever.

Of course everyone wants directly in control in what they want to see get created.
But you do know that you are wishing for something nearly impossible seeing how this capitalstic world works.
The individual consumer usually does not have the resources and the power to have any influence over any big projects in this world.
This is not just limited to anime, but for everything.
Nonsense. It's called Crowdfunding, and it already exists. From my knowledge of Anime production, that's enough to fund a 13 episode Anime (given that anime production is ~150k-300k an episode). And, of course, crowd funding is still in it's infancy. Those numbers will only increase.

If the Anime industry sticks to making money through optical disc sales, they'll die along with the optical disc format which is rapidly becoming obsolete.
Quote:
Also it seems you are boycotting this for the wrong reasons. Artists needs to eat, yes. But without any big projects, they won't be able to eat.
Not that i am defending how the anime industry (actually this applies to every major company) works, seeing that the top and the investors gets most of the profit while the rest of the staff just get paid based on their wages. But that is how the whole capitalistic system works .
I'm not against the capitalist system. I just think we need to move to a new system of financing to meet the needs and new opportunities of the 21st century. The current system is fitted to an analogue age of videos and broadcasts. Not to a digital age of downloads and Youtube.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
And that's the point of the system. In an era where you can easily record broadcasts to watch later, does it make sense to try and crack down on "pirated" anime in the first place? Setting aside the issue of people outside of Japan (who are not under this law in the first place and have a much higher barrier t the market unless you're in Korea or Taiwan), the anime industry as a whole recognizes reality and have adjusted to it, with DVDs being more of getting back the investment and all other products (figures, OVAs, games, etc) being the ones that lead to extra income. It's because of the core way the system works that doujinshis and such can flourish without much problems: Doujinshis lead to the growth of the fan base, who might buy the DVDs (thus contributing to getting the investment back) and the related products (making a profit). Such a system does not really work for the music and movie industry, thus they were the ones pushing for this law.
Indeed. I doubt the anime industry will try to enforce these laws (they've been generally lenient towards piracy in the past). Still, I think that they're limiting themselves by sticking to optical discs. Optical discs are a dead medium. Many computers now don't even come with DVD drives(let alone Blue-ray). I haven't used my DVD drive in about a year.
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Old 2012-10-04, 08:40   Link #73
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Figures: The majority of the profit goes the people who make the figures
OAV: You do know it's technically a non broadcasted anime episode. Which means it has the same costs as an actual episode except for the costs related to reserving airing slots on tv.
games: Those are entirely different projects by themselves, with their own investments and costs.
Figures: Any money that goes to the studio is a profit. There is no need to really discuss who gets how much of the revenue from figure sales.
OAV: And how much do you think the TV slots are worth? A cost not spent is a potential source of income or alternative investment.
Games: Same as the figures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
If the Anime industry sticks to making money through optical disc sales, they'll die along with the optical disc format which is rapidly becoming obsolete.
I'm not against the capitalist system. I just think we need to move to a new system of financing to meet the needs and new opportunities of the 21st century. The current system is fitted to an analogue age of videos and broadcasts. Not to a digital age of downloads and Youtube.


Indeed. I doubt the anime industry will try to enforce these laws (they've been generally lenient towards piracy in the past). Still, I think that they're limiting themselves by sticking to optical discs. Optical discs are a dead medium. Many computers now don't even come with DVD drives(let alone Blue-ray). I haven't used my DVD drive in about a year.
Well, two things about that:

1. DVDs are a lot more common in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, than elsewhere. A lot of people want to have physical copies, which still drives various physical forms of recorders/players.
2. Quite a few people buy the boxes just to keep it. I happen to be one of those (I usually buy three copies, one for backup, one for permanent display, one for use).

In fact, if anything, the digital age is driving the sales of DVDs by creating the demands through the building of the fan base.
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Old 2012-10-04, 09:06   Link #74
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Nonsense. It's called Crowdfunding, and it already exists. From my knowledge of Anime production, that's enough to fund a 13 episode Anime (given that anime production is ~150k-300k an episode). And, of course, crowd funding is still in it's infancy. Those numbers will only increase.
You said it yourself, it's in it's infancy. So how is everything what i said "nonsense" seeing that crowdfunding has existed for god knows how many years, while the first crowdfunded anime , the socalled kickheart project , has only started less than few weeks ago?
Are you denying that the world does not work this way , just because there are one or more of these incidental cases compared to everything else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
If the Anime industry sticks to making money through optical disc sales, they'll die along with the optical disc format which is rapidly becoming obsolete.
I'm not against the capitalist system. I just think we need to move to a new system of financing to meet the needs and new opportunities of the 21st century. The current system is fitted to an analogue age of videos and broadcasts. Not to a digital age of downloads and Youtube.

Indeed. I doubt the anime industry will try to enforce these laws (they've been generally lenient towards piracy in the past). Still, I think that they're limiting themselves by sticking to optical discs. Optical discs are a dead medium. Many computers now don't even come with DVD drives(let alone Blue-ray). I haven't used my DVD drive in about a year.
Interesting. Care to explain how people in japan can earn back projects costing a few millions dollars by streaming technology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Figures: Any money that goes to the studio is a profit. There is no need to really discuss who gets how much of the revenue from figure sales.
OAV: And how much do you think the TV slots are worth? A cost not spent is a potential source of income or alternative investment.
Games: Same as the figures.
Figures: You were saying that it would cover the costs for the investors, but in real life it's earns back just a small fraction of the costs. And i can't call that "getting back the costs of the dvd's "
OAV: And oav does not cover the costs of the anime project, seeing that it has it's own costs to cover.
Games: Games are completely different projects. They are usually both tools used to market eachother, not to cover each others costs. You don't think that Hunex gave any of their profits to manglobe or vice versa for the psp port or the anime of Mashiro iro Symphony, do you?
Or Kadokawa games and AIC for koichoco psp game and anime
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Old 2012-10-04, 09:16   Link #75
gsilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
In all seriousness while we are talking about animes in japan, how many people in this forum actually buy discs of their favorite series from japan?
I've bought:
Akazukin Chacha
Kaiba
Comet-san (someone fansub this, dammit! It's not as fun to watch without subs...)
Heartcatch Precure + movie
Mind Game

Though:
A) I'm probably an outlier
B) I pirated all of that first.


Most of my (substantial) R1 collection are things that I pirated first. Nowadays, it isn't needed so much because of readily available legitimate streaming services, but certain shows, like everything in my R2 list, don't have streams and probably will never get them.
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Old 2012-10-04, 09:21   Link #76
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
I've bought:
Akazukin Chacha
Kaiba
Comet-san (someone fansub this, dammit! It's not as fun to watch without subs...)
Heartcatch Precure + movie
Mind Game

Though:
A) I'm probably an outlier
B) I pirated all of that first.


Most of my (substantial) R1 collection are things that I pirated first. Nowadays, it isn't needed so much because of readily available legitimate streaming services, but certain shows, like everything in my R2 list, don't have streams and probably will never get them.
Not to be rude or something but that question was rhetorical , seeing that it was meant to imply that most of the people here don't buy discs.
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Old 2012-10-04, 09:47   Link #77
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
1. DVDs are a lot more common in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, than elsewhere. A lot of people want to have physical copies, which still drives various physical forms of recorders/players.
2. Quite a few people buy the boxes just to keep it. I happen to be one of those (I usually buy three copies, one for backup, one for permanent display, one for use).
1. Less DVDs were sold in Japan 5 years ago then in the USA (per capita), hence the higher prices. Now the Japanese DVD market has proven to be less fickle then the US, but I don't know how long it will last. It's difficult to predict the future, but my hunch is that optical disks will become more and more irrelevant. I say this based on the fact that alternatives (like downloaded soft copies, or streaming) are more convenient, cheaper to deliver and take up less space. They don't satisfy the collector urge, but then you can always replace Disks with figurines, artbooks or concept art.
2. And people still buy records too. But they're an extreme minority, and not enough to build a business model around. At best it's a supplementary source of income. Depending on disc sales will limit the potential size of the Anime industry, as it fails to take account of all the consumers(like me) uninterested in buying disks, but still interested in putting money into it.

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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
You said it yourself, it's in it's infancy. So how is everything what i said "nonsense" seeing that crowdfunding has existed for god knows how many years, while the first crowdfunded anime , the socalled kickheart project , has only started less than few weeks ago?
Are you denying that the world does not work this way , just because there are one or more of these incidental cases compared to everything else?
It works as you said right now. But I'm talking about the future. This is how I see the wind blowing for niche products like Anime. And it will be a superior way of doing things too. Companies will either flow with it and prosper(like the game industry), or go against it and fail (like the music industry).

Quote:
Interesting. Care to explain how people in japan can earn back projects costing a few millions dollars by streaming technology?
You don't earn it back. It's entirely prefunded by the audience. All the expenses will already be paid for before the anime is even made.

That, and they could use some alternative revenue streams. Things like Art Books, Concept art etc. Sell off some of the production materials to enthusiasts.

But the truth is, the industry doesn't really have a choice. It's not a matter of if disk media will die. It's when. Disks are an outdated business model unsuited to the new digital marketplace. They'll be selling things that people simply aren't interested in buying. Most people don't think disks are worth anything anymore. Love it or hate it, but people view the content as "free". People don't like putting a price tag on ideas. So instead of charging for ideas after the fact, the only way forward I can see is to ask for money to develop those ideas in the first place. It will spur greater audience participation, by in some sense putting them in direct control of what is made, and what isn't.
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Old 2012-10-04, 10:32   Link #78
MakubeX2
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
1. Less DVDs were sold in Japan 5 years ago then in the USA (per capita), hence the higher prices. Now the Japanese DVD market has proven to be less fickle then the US, but I don't know how long it will last. It's difficult to predict the future, but my hunch is that optical disks will become more and more irrelevant. I say this based on the fact that alternatives (like downloaded soft copies, or streaming) are more convenient, cheaper to deliver and take up less space.
Is there a lightweight soft copy format that rivals Blu-Ray both in video and audio quality ? Pray tell so that I can cut back some of my expenditure for something else.
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Old 2012-10-04, 11:31   Link #79
DonQuigleone
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 25
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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Is there a lightweight soft copy format that rivals Blu-Ray both in video and audio quality ? Pray tell so that I can cut back some of my expenditure for something else.
Last time I checked there are plenty of fansubbers out there releasing Blu-Ray rips. I haven't forked the money out for any blu-player or movie, so I can't make a direct comparison from experience, but I've gotten some damn fine blu-ray rips in the past. And frankly, when I compare the 1 gig per episodes rips to the ~400 mb per episode rips (same resolution), I don't see a whole lot of difference. I've also watched live action rips and had similarly good experiences.

But there isn't any reason why a soft copy wouldn't be superior to a bluray. For one thing, data will always be read faster from a hard drive. The only real issue is the encoding. A heavily encoded video will run poorly on a bad computer.

My connection is pretty terrible, but even I have an easy enough time getting 720p content (1080p is a bit trickier).

If you're having trouble with your blu-ray rips, I'd recommend a computer upgrade. Fortunately a computer upgrade has many more uses then a blu-ray player...
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Old 2012-10-04, 11:41   Link #80
Sumeragi
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
1. Less DVDs were sold in Japan 5 years ago then in the USA (per capita), hence the higher prices. Now the Japanese DVD market has proven to be less fickle then the US, but I don't know how long it will last. It's difficult to predict the future, but my hunch is that optical disks will become more and more irrelevant. I say this based on the fact that alternatives (like downloaded soft copies, or streaming) are more convenient, cheaper to deliver and take up less space. They don't satisfy the collector urge, but then you can always replace Disks with figurines, artbooks or concept art.
That's not the point. The main point is that in general the three major markets in East Asia all have the same characteristics in that they like having a physical record, be it floppy, CD, DVD, Blue-Ray. Digital alternatives are in fact not true alternatives in the long-run with the physical bias. The technology might change (optical disks being replaced by the next storage method), but the physical shall remain, and that will be a, if not the, major source of payback.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
2. And people still buy records too. But they're an extreme minority, and not enough to build a business model around. At best it's a supplementary source of income. Depending on disc sales will limit the potential size of the Anime industry, as it fails to take account of all the consumers(like me) uninterested in buying disks, but still interested in putting money into it.
I wouldn't say the records are the sole part, but they will always be a major part of the structure.
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