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Old 2012-10-03, 21:36   Link #7601
azul120
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She did come to identify with him in season 2 after conversing with Nunnally.
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Old 2012-10-03, 22:15   Link #7602
Destined_Fate
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Doubtful, Kallen even says it herself. Had Lelouch said he loved her she would never have left his side no matter what, even through death. So if they did get together she wouldn't be the one to break it off.
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Old 2012-10-04, 00:19   Link #7603
shinigami99
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I think the main thing we have to debate is Lelouch's feelings for these girls because there is no question that all those girls liked him romantically.

I mean the guy basically had a choice of Shirley, Kallen, C.C., Milly, Kaguya-to a certain extent (see character poem/song)- all of whom had some sort of feelings for him. That's one hell of a hard decision to make, and he didn't have time to worry about that.

I think he has showed shades of caring for Shirley, Kallen and C.C. and to be honest, I'm not partial to anyone of them;I think all of them were great. I'm just a little pissed that the greatest anime main character of at least the last decade (IMO) died without at least having experienced a relationship.

Things may have turned out much different, however.
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Old 2012-10-04, 00:42   Link #7604
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Ask Sol Failing for that explanation.
If he feels like it, he'll explain it better than I can.
He's the one that convinced me of it.
"Sol Failing"? That's a second "l" there, not an "i".

As for making the conclusion that Lelouch loved Shirley the most, I wouldn't go that far in the series. As a matter of Lelouch's canonical romantic experiences, it was pretty much stated that he was too busy with his rebellion to spare time/energy for romance. I find it plausible that Lelouch, as an empathetic character, would have been willing to love any one of his major love interests (Shirley, C.C., Kallen) in the absence of extenuating circumstances.

However, the area where Shirley had an advantage over Kallen and C.C. is that where Lelouch lead/inspired/protected Kallen, and saved/redeemed C.C., Shirley was the person who saved/taught/inspired/corrected him. Kallen and C.C. were enablers who supported Lelouch along his path of carnage. Shirley was the guide who gradually taught Lelouch that there was more to the world than hatred and destruction. Ultimately, she was a representation and protector of Lelouch's "Hope". After Lelouch's whole revenge issue with Charles was completed and crumbled, that was all that he had left.

It's not certain that Lelouch couldn't have been moved by any of the girls' love for him. That's the whole guy thing, "don't let a woman cry", etc. But Shirley had a way of moving Lelouch's heart, even in matters unrelated to romance. She brought him a new perspective. That's why her love for him played such a pivotal role. It's also why, if Lelouch actually did have a chance to live the peaceful life he dreamed of, it'd clearly be most fitting for Shirley to be by his side.
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Old 2012-10-04, 00:55   Link #7605
GundamFan0083
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
"Sol Failing"? That's a second "l" there, not an "i".

As for making the conclusion that Lelouch loved Shirley the most, I wouldn't go that far in the series. As a matter of Lelouch's canonical romantic experiences, it was pretty much stated that he was too busy with his rebellion to spare time/energy for romance. I find it plausible that Lelouch, as an empathetic character, would have been willing to love any one of his major love interests (Shirley, C.C., Kallen) in the absence of extenuating circumstances.

However, the area where Shirley had an advantage over Kallen and C.C. is that where Lelouch lead/inspired/protected Kallen, and saved/redeemed C.C., Shirley was the person who saved/taught/inspired/corrected him. Kallen and C.C. were enablers who supported Lelouch along his path of carnage. Shirley was the guide who gradually taught Lelouch that there was more to the world than hatred and destruction. Ultimately, she was a representation and protector of Lelouch's "Hope". After Lelouch's whole revenge issue with Charles was completed and crumbled, that was all that he had left.

It's not certain that Lelouch couldn't have been moved by any of the girls' love for him. That's the whole guy thing, "don't let a woman cry", etc. But Shirley had a way of moving Lelouch's heart, even in matters unrelated to romance. She brought him a new perspective. That's why her love for him played such a pivotal role. It's also why, if Lelouch actually did have a chance to live the peaceful life he dreamed of, it'd clearly be most fitting for Shirley to be by his side.
Whoops, that was an unfortunate typo.

That aside.
Your explanation makes the most sense to me.
As you said, Shirley had the most effect on Lelouch rather than the other way around as with CC and Kallen.
I can't dispute that because (In my opinion) the anime supports it without a doubt.
This scene showing it the most.



That scene is why I say Lelouch loved Shirley the most and that is the closest scene I know of where Lelouch wants one of the girls to kiss him.
He doesn't do that with either CC or Kallen.
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Old 2012-10-04, 01:23   Link #7606
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Shirley's death, as well as everything following the FLEIJA blast, did too much of a number on him for Kallen to really get a shot. Especially the betrayal.

Not denying Shirley, just saying. Circumstance can be a biatch.
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Old 2012-10-04, 03:07   Link #7607
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Eh, Shirley can try again in her next life since they both died virgins and alone. Kallen and C.C. will eventually move on, especially C.C. who is used to people dying around her. Kaguya is still young enough to not be too troubled by this either.
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Old 2012-10-04, 04:26   Link #7608
somersault
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post

That scene is why I say Lelouch loved Shirley the most and that is the closest scene I know of where Lelouch wants one of the girls to kiss him.
He doesn't do that with either CC or Kallen.
That scene was nice, especially since it showed that Shirley was able to recognize when Lelouch was himself and when not and Lelouch being pleasantly surprised by it.
The way I see it, whenever Lelouch was around Shirley, he always seemed to be carrying the guilt of killing her father but at the same time, he would forget a bit about his mission and act like a normal highschool boy.

Also, he did that with Kallen, he tried to initiated a kiss with her on his own accord; of course Lelouch was out of his regular mind then, and nearly entered the world of being a manwhore and hit rock bottom and blah blah, but that doesn't discard the fact that this was a sign of sexual attraction towards Kallen.
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Old 2012-10-04, 09:53   Link #7609
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That scene was nice, especially since it showed that Shirley was able to recognize when Lelouch was himself and when not and Lelouch being pleasantly surprised by it.
The way I see it, whenever Lelouch was around Shirley, he always seemed to be carrying the guilt of killing her father but at the same time, he would forget a bit about his mission and act like a normal highschool boy.

Also, he did that with Kallen, he tried to initiated a kiss with her on his own accord; of course Lelouch was out of his regular mind then, and nearly entered the world of being a manwhore and hit rock bottom and blah blah, but that doesn't discard the fact that this was a sign of sexual attraction towards Kallen.
C'mon Somersault, you know as well as everybody else here that Lelouch just wanted to get his "wick wet" with Kallen.
She's gorgeous, with a hot body.
Rivaltz mentions it at Ashford to Lelouch.
Gina is chasing her in R2.
Even Suzaku wasn't immune to that on Kaminejima Island when they were together.
So it's perfectly understandable for Lelouch to lust after her after Nunnally died.
He even says "comfort me."
Lelouch isn't thinking with the head on his shoulders at that point, it's his little-Lulu that doing the driving between his legs.
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Old 2012-10-04, 10:22   Link #7610
Destined_Fate
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Well of coursed he was sexually attracted to Kallen, she was hot, loyal, and was his most prized chess piece next to C.C.. That and they've hung out for quite awhile, supported eavh other in two rebellions, and it was a huge burden off his mind that he had someone else, other than C.C., to confide with that didn't judge him. If he had returned to Ashford like he had planned to at the end before Kallen's capture than Kallen would have went with him since he specifically asked her to remain by his side even after all the fighting was over.
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Old 2012-10-04, 11:37   Link #7611
somersault
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
C'mon Somersault, you know as well as everybody else here that Lelouch just wanted to get his "wick wet" with Kallen.
She's gorgeous, with a hot body.
Rivaltz mentions it at Ashford to Lelouch.
Gina is chasing her in R2.
Even Suzaku wasn't immune to that on Kaminejima Island when they were together.
So it's perfectly understandable for Lelouch to lust after her after Nunnally died.
He even says "comfort me."
Lelouch isn't thinking with the head on his shoulders at that point, it's his little-Lulu that doing the driving between his legs.
No, I don't know and I was never a fan of the whole "he would have done it with everyone that was gonna be there cause his winnie needed company" - generally those kind of examples that try to apply "common logic" on specific events isn't working out.
There was a reason, Lelouch tried to make a move on her, apart from his cray cray state of mind there.

There is sexual attraction between Kallen and Lelouch and that has been displayed in a couple more occasions during the series.
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Old 2012-10-04, 12:17   Link #7612
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dat sexual tension ( around 4:10 in the video)

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Old 2012-10-04, 17:55   Link #7613
Destined_Fate
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Yeah, I mentioned that scene. Lelouch clearly was willing to go further with Kallen and did ask her to come back to Ashford with him after everything was over. Poor Lelouch was so optimistic back than...

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Originally Posted by somersault View Post
No, I don't know and I was never a fan of the whole "he would have done it with everyone that was gonna be there cause his winnie needed company" - generally those kind of examples that try to apply "common logic" on specific events isn't working out.
There was a reason, Lelouch tried to make a move on her, apart from his cray cray state of mind there.

There is sexual attraction between Kallen and Lelouch and that has been displayed in a couple more occasions during the series.
You're correct, Lelouch wouldn't have had sex with anyone even when he was that depressed. Kallen was not only hot but very close to him and has dealt with the same pain that he was going through considering she lost her brother in the past. So it makes sense that Lelouch would ask her to have sex with him when she came to find him. After all, they are attracted to each other, are close, and both share a lot of pain which they keep bottled up. It was only natural for him since he already liked her a lot and those that understand and know pain tend to gravitate to each other when they're taking a beating.
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Old 2012-10-04, 20:06   Link #7614
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Yeah, I mentioned that scene. Lelouch clearly was willing to go further with Kallen and did ask her to come back to Ashford with him after everything was over. Poor Lelouch was so optimistic back than...
Cockblocked by Ohgi and Villetta... :P
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Old 2012-10-04, 21:18   Link #7615
somersault
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Cockblocked by Ohgi and Villetta... :P
Oh God, those two must have been the biggest douches in the series, and still they got scott-free in the end. It's funny how these two crappy, brainless, whipped-driven, back-stabbing characters played such a major role in Lelouch's downfall. (and further, future-cockblock as you mentioned.)
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Old 2012-10-04, 21:28   Link #7616
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Oh God, those two must have been the biggest douches in the series, and still they got scott-free in the end. It's funny how these two crappy, brainless, whipped-driven, back-stabbing characters played such a major role in Lelouch's downfall. (and further, future-cockblock as you mentioned.)
Yep. I don't know who I can't stand more, them or Jay Leno.
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Old 2012-10-04, 21:33   Link #7617
GundamFan0083
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No, I don't know and I was never a fan of the whole "he would have done it with everyone that was gonna be there cause his winnie needed company" - generally those kind of examples that try to apply "common logic" on specific events isn't working out.
There was a reason, Lelouch tried to make a move on her, apart from his cray cray state of mind there.
Oh...For the love of Pete...



How you Kalulu's get something more than "comfort me" aka "Fuck me" out of that scene is beyond me.
That's what he's asking of her ladies and gents.
He's asking Kallen, "Bitch, get down and get busy...show me dem titties!"

He's a 17 year old, hormone raging, teenager. He wanted Kallen for sex in that scene and nothing more.
There is no indication of any other motivation.

Quote:
There is sexual attraction between Kallen and Lelouch and that has been displayed in a couple more occasions during the series.
Yes there is!
And in the scene in question that is all there is...sexual desire on Lelouch's part.
That does not translate into love.
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Old 2012-10-04, 21:35   Link #7618
somersault
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Yep. I don't know who I can't stand more, them or Jay Leno.
I don't really watch these US late comedian shows /except SNL kinda/ but I'm pretty sure an ~ambitious officer~ that ruined a girl's life solely to get a chance to get promoted combined with a rapist in progress can't compare.

Urgh, this derails the Lelouch thread tbh.

eta: Yeah, because Lelouch was known to troll the girls in his school before, totally. What he tried to do with Kallen was just his ordinary porn schedule.

eta2: Sexual attraction doesn't equal love. I said, sexual attraction in that particular segment, that is. Hints of possible love feelings can be found elsewhere.
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Old 2012-10-04, 21:38   Link #7619
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I don't really watch these US late comedian shows /except SNL kinda/ but I'm pretty sure an ~ambitious officer~ that ruined a girl's life solely to get a chance to get promoted combined with a rapist in progress can't compare.
Leno screwed Conan O'Brien out of the Tonight Show, basically speaking, in early 2010. (The Jay Leno Show sabotaged Conan's TS ratings, which led to NBC considering bumping Jay back to 11:35, and Conan to midnight. Conan left, not wanting to tarnish TS; Jay got the TS back. Sound reminiscent yet?)

Quote:
eta: Yeah, because Lelouch was known to troll the girls in his school before, totally. What he did with Kallen was just his ordinary schedule.
He trolled Kallen as part of his whole "Lelouch Lamperouge" facade at Ashford, so she wouldn't suspect him of being Zero.
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Old 2012-10-04, 21:40   Link #7620
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dat sexual tension ( around 4:10 in the video)

That is one of the scenes where Lelouch actually shows some interest in Kallen that is more than sex.
What pisses me off about that scene is that they (Okouchi/Taniguichi) fucked it up with sexual tension.
It could have been tender rather than sexual.
Making Kallen into nothing more than a sex object really pissed me off in R2.
She wasn't that in S1 (well she was a little, but not like in R2), and if they wanted to show that Lelouch had actual feelings for her, then they should have done a better job of it.
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