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Old 2012-10-04, 12:14   Link #81
DonQuigleone
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
That's not the point. The main point is that in general the three major markets in East Asia all have the same characteristics in that they like having a physical record, be it floppy, CD, DVD, Blue-Ray. Digital alternatives are in fact not true alternatives in the long-run with the physical bias. The technology might change (optical disks being replaced by the next storage method), but the physical shall remain, and that will be a, if not the, major source of payback.
But I do have physical storage. On my hard drive.

I don't see the point of the disk beyond being a collector's item. And let's be honest here, only a fraction of the potential consumer base is interested in disks as collectors items. If they stick to the collectors item route, they'll rarely sell to more then 20,000 people, when there's several million(in and out of East Asia) available just waiting to "buy". And let's put that in perspective, 20,000 is less people then the number of people that attend my rather obscure university. It's peanuts in the entertainment world.

And anyway, I think you're wrong about there being an East Asian bias in favour of physical media. Physical media sales are pretty damn low in Japan. If Physical media sales were high, we'd see Anime DVDs routinely selling several hundred thousand copies, but instead they're lucky if they even reach ten thousand.

I see similar commitment to buying physical media where I am in the west. Loads of people have huge DVD or CD collections, and I see more and more people ditching them in favour of computer storage and streaming.

People are fundamentally lazy, and the laziest easiest way to get your entertainment is downloading. That isn't different in Japan or America.

The difference is that Japanese retailers have always pursued the low volume, high price approach to video. Sales volume was never high in the first place, and so it won't shed sales as easily (people were primarily buying DVDs to collect, not to watch the thing. Far as I'm aware, Renting was always far more popular in Japan).

If we want a more direct analogue, if we look at Music CD sales, Japanese sales have been declining just like everyone else's has. Their attachment to physical media clearly hasn't broken the lure of free convenient music.
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Old 2012-10-04, 13:10   Link #82
Lord of Fire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
That's not the point. The main point is that in general the three major markets in East Asia all have the same characteristics in that they like having a physical record, be it floppy, CD, DVD, Blue-Ray. Digital alternatives are in fact not true alternatives in the long-run with the physical bias. The technology might change (optical disks being replaced by the next storage method), but the physical shall remain, and that will be a, if not the, major source of payback.
For the time being, anyway. But will that always be the case? I think demand for digital downloads will eventually reach a point where physical media are no longer profitable, because people refuse to buy them. And the industry had better have some alternatives standing by, if it wants to survive. The lack of interest from the [music and movie] industry to do so is why they keep pushing for laws like these. It's as if they believe that everything will turn out all right if they just eliminate the alternatives, despite evidence pointing to the opposite.
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Old 2012-10-04, 13:12   Link #83
Ithekro
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Some people like to have a physical copy that won't get destroyed by an accidental memory wipe or EMP. Or a hard drive failure. A DVD can still melt in fire and the like, ore get scratched or broken, but if one breaks, you lose one...if your hard drive fails, you loose all of them. But if the online source still exists, you can just get it again relatively easily. You'd have to buy a new DVD if the one from before broke.

Other (usually older people) don't trust computers enough to deal with digital downloading. They are still very much worried about viruses, identity theft, and other problems that were being loudly announced a decade ago. Or they just don't want to bother with it because the TV screen is larger with a much better sound system for the BD player.
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Old 2012-10-04, 13:24   Link #84
Roloko vi Britannia
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Shit better watch out when downloading my anime/character music from now on.

I doubt nothing will happen they will probably just go after a few individuals to make a point then after that nothing.
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Old 2012-10-04, 15:07   Link #85
NightbatŪ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
How do you steal a car you got for free?
And we all give eachother cars for free every day right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods

If you didn't buy the original media, you damn well know you shouldn't have it in your posession


Ah internet piracy, the west's version of the 419 scam
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Old 2012-10-04, 15:57   Link #86
Ithekro
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Your phasing suggested that you stole your own car that you got for free.

How do you steal your own car that you happened to get for free (such as winning a car in a write in prize contest or one given to you by a family member)?
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Old 2012-10-04, 18:30   Link #87
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Last time I checked there are plenty of fansubbers out there releasing Blu-Ray rips. I haven't forked the money out for any blu-player or movie, so I can't make a direct comparison from experience, but I've gotten some damn fine blu-ray rips in the past. And frankly, when I compare the 1 gig per episodes rips to the ~400 mb per episode rips (same resolution), I don't see a whole lot of difference. I've also watched live action rips and had similarly good experiences.
There lies the problem. If you do not have the original uncompressed version to compare, you will never know.

From online research, a passable 1080p rip with compressed audio comes up to between 7gb-10gb in size. A good blu-ray rip that has identical video to those on disc will take anything from 10gb-20gb, that is after compressing the audio. Not quite as lightweight as expected. But this is the standard for today, and I believe there will be a better compression format that offers a better size to quality ration in the future. Still, by then, the media companies will have something even better to offer on disc. DVD used to be best, but compression tech and transfer speed had caught up with it. That is why we have Blu-ray.

In all, if you are not picky about video or sound quality, go for the online digital format. If you are one of those who wants the best in the sights and sounds, go for disc.
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Old 2012-10-04, 18:37   Link #88
hyl
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Eventhough i am basically obstructing my own posts for promoting people to buy discs, but whatever.
I will be my acting as a devil's advocate's advocate then.

Most 1080p animes that you find on blu-rays are basically upscaled version of 720p. So you won't see that much of a difference.
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Old 2012-10-04, 18:41   Link #89
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Eventhough i am basically obstructing my own posts for promoting to buy discs, but whatever.
I will be my acting as a devil's advocate's advocate then.

Most 1080p animes that you find on blu-rays are basically upscaled version of 720p. So you won't see that much of a difference.
You have to look at the big picture. Anime industry is peanuts compared to Hollywood.
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Old 2012-10-04, 18:43   Link #90
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
You have to look at the big picture. Anime industry is peanuts compared to Hollywood.
While that is true, but the subject of this topic is still related to animes.
Also from what i have seen , hollywood movies blu-rays usually don't cost $80-90, while also being shot at a better quality than anime blu-rays.
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Old 2012-10-04, 18:49   Link #91
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Also from what i have seen , hollywood movies blu-rays usually don't cost $80-90, while also being shot at a better quality than anime blu-rays.
I agree. But it is the those studios at Hollywood that dictates what disc formats and tech spec to used as home media.
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Old 2012-10-04, 19:17   Link #92
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
There lies the problem. If you do not have the original uncompressed version to compare, you will never know.

From online research, a passable 1080p rip with compressed audio comes up to between 7gb-10gb in size. A good blu-ray rip that has identical video to those on disc will take anything from 10gb-20gb, that is after compressing the audio. Not quite as lightweight as expected. But this is the standard for today, and I believe there will be a better compression format that offers a better size to quality ration in the future. Still, by then, the media companies will have something even better to offer on disc. DVD used to be best, but compression tech and transfer speed had caught up with it. That is why we have Blu-ray.

In all, if you are not picky about video or sound quality, go for the online digital format. If you are one of those who wants the best in the sights and sounds, go for disc.
Can't really speak for images, but I fail to see how Blu-rays present any improvement when it comes to sound. You can't tell the difference between wavs and mp3s anyway. The same goes for blu-ray audio.

I do recall seeing some demonstrations of blu-ray in my local hardware store. Compared to my rips, I wasn't impressed.

Anyway, with a good internet connection you can easily download 10-20 gb(My friend could pull that down in an hour, and so could even stream it), and the hard drive space to hold it is now super cheap. Those numbers would be too much for my terrible connection though.

If you compare to the alternative, of paying money, and spending several hours finding it in the shops, or waiting a week while waiting for it to be delivered after ordering online, a 10-20gb rip still comes out ahead, so long as your internet connection is good enough.
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Old 2012-10-04, 19:22   Link #93
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Can't really speak for images, but I fail to see how Blu-rays present any improvement when it comes to sound. You can't tell the difference between wavs and mp3s anyway. The same goes for blu-ray audio.
As an audiophile who owns and uses headphone amp , multiple expensive headphones and even owns high tier "portable" sources like the hifiman hm-801, I beg to differ that you can't hear the difference between wav and mp3 files. Even mp3 files ripped at 320kbps have noticable differences over lossless files for me.
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Old 2012-10-04, 19:36   Link #94
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Can't really speak for images, but I fail to see how Blu-rays present any improvement when it comes to sound. You can't tell the difference between wavs and mp3s anyway. The same goes for blu-ray audio.
You need a really good surround sound system to know the difference. Something like 5-7 speakers with a subwoofer. I personally do not have one of those. But I am still able to appreciate the difference.

Quote:
I do recall seeing some demonstrations of blu-ray in my local hardware store. Compared to my rips, I wasn't impressed.
Likewise for video. You cannot tell the difference by just outputting everything on a small monitor of 1280 X 720 resolution.

The truth is Blu-ray is the only media to date that can replicate the cinematic experience to a good fraction if you have the proper hardware.

Quote:
Anyway, with a good internet connection you can easily download 10-20 gb(My friend could pull that down in an hour, and so could even stream it), and the hard drive space to hold it is now super cheap. Those numbers would be too much for my terrible connection though.

If you compare to the alternative, of paying money, and spending several hours finding it in the shops, or waiting a week while waiting for it to be delivered after ordering online, a 10-20gb rip still comes out ahead, so long as your internet connection is good enough.
Not everybody has a 100mbs connection. The infrastructure is just not there.
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Old 2012-10-04, 19:37   Link #95
Ithekro
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That depends entirely on how sensitive one's hearing is. If someone has even a small amount of hearing loss (from playing music too loud as a teenage, having the sounds turned up too loud on the Xbox, or to much industrial zones) they probably can't tell the differences at all in sound quality on those levels. If the soud is all scratchy or fades in and out they will notice, but above a certain level of quality, their ears can't tell the difference anymore. Same with video quality to many people.
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Old 2012-10-04, 20:11   Link #96
DonQuigleone
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
As an audiophile who owns and uses headphone amp , multiple expensive headphones and even owns high tier "portable" sources like the hifiman hm-801, I beg to differ that you can't hear the difference between wav and mp3 files. Even mp3 files ripped at 320kbps have noticable differences over lossless files for me.
I can assure you, if you did a double blind test, you wouldn't be able to tell. You just think you can tell. Don't believe me, do it yourself. The results are here.

There has been other experiments performed
. In that experiment people cannot tell the difference between standard CD audio and "high definition" audio.

Generally, most expensive audiophile stuff is a load of snake oil. Particularly the cables...
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Old 2012-10-04, 20:26   Link #97
hyl
sneaking like a cat
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I can assure you, if you did a double blind test, you wouldn't be able to tell. You just think you can tell. Don't believe me, do it yourself. The results are here.

There has been other experiments performed
. In that experiment people cannot tell the difference between standard CD audio and "high definition" audio.

Generally, most expensive audiophile stuff is a load of snake oil. Particularly the cables...
I have done those socalled tests when i was clicking on those for fun on head-fi and i wasn't wrong that much.

Also i am not a "cable" type of person, but someone tempers with settings on amps and compares music with multiple headphones that have different sound signatures
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Old 2012-10-04, 20:38   Link #98
Random32
Also a Lolicon
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Eventhough i am basically obstructing my own posts for promoting people to buy discs, but whatever.
I will be my acting as a devil's advocate's advocate then.

Most 1080p animes that you find on blu-rays are basically upscaled version of 720p. So you won't see that much of a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
While that is true, but the subject of this topic is still related to animes.
Also from what i have seen , hollywood movies blu-rays usually don't cost $80-90, while also being shot at a better quality than anime blu-rays.
It's not about the quality for the price, or the amount of content for the price, its about making sure that the people who make anime can survive to make more. It's not paying for your own ability to watch anime, the ability to watch anime is free for anyone with half a brain and an internet connection. It's paying for the ability of the creators to make more anime.

btw, on the topic of sound quality, I think it depends more on your headphones and settings than your sound files.
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Old 2012-10-04, 20:47   Link #99
hyl
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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
It's not about the quality for the price, or the amount of content for the price, its about making sure that the people who make anime can survive to make more. It's not paying for your own ability to watch anime, the ability to watch anime is free for anyone with half a brain and an internet connection. It's paying for the ability of the creators to make more anime.
As if i wasn't aware of why these discs costs so much, seeing my rants the last few pages related earning back the costs.
I only mentioned this, because people were going on the quality issue of 1080p animes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
btw, on the topic of sound quality, I think it depends more on your headphones and settings than your sound files.
Actually it's both. If your recording is bad (let's say a 48kbps mp3 file), then you aren't going expect to hear something incredible from it no matter how good gear you are using.
Likewise a 24 bit flac won't sound that much better than most mp3 files, if you are using stock earbuds from a cheap mp3 player.
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Old 2012-10-04, 21:25   Link #100
Random32
Also a Lolicon
 
 
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
As if i wasn't aware of why these discs costs so much, seeing my rants the last few pages related earning back the costs.
I only mentioned this, because people were going on the quality issue of 1080p animes.
I know you're aware of that. But you were playing devil's advocate advocate so I argued as if you didn't know.

Quote:
Actually it's both. If your recording is bad (let's say a 48kbps mp3 file), then you aren't going expect to hear something incredible from it no matter how good gear you are using.
Likewise a 24 bit flac won't sound that much better than most mp3 files, if you are using stock earbuds from a cheap mp3 player.
I wasn't intending 48kbps mp3 == FLAC, more like, its near impossible to tell the difference between higher quality lossy compressions (196kbps mp3) and lossless/uncompressed, without godly hearing and equipment.
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