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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 14
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 102 45.95%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 57 25.68%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 19 8.56%
7 out of 10 : Good... 16 7.21%
6 out of 10 : Average... 10 4.50%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.45%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 5 2.25%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 3 1.35%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.45%
1 out of 10 : Tortuous... 8 3.60%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-10-06, 16:21   Link #101
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Now you're trying too hard to explain something the series should have explained on its own but didn't. He didn't do anything like that.
I don't think it's "trying too hard"; it was the first thing that occurred to me when hearing the dialogue and seeing Kirito's emotional reaction to the statement. I read the whole thing as one big sarcastic statement, like "Whoever could have seen that coming? How could that happen?" And that's when Kirito got mad at Kayaba and picked up her sword. So... I don't know... seemed like the most logical explanation to me at the time.

The other possible explanation is that, as M.A.D said, she broke the laws of the game, just as Kirito did. Which I guess is okay too, but that too isn't clearly stated. You can interpret that as the reason why Asuna too cleared the game, or you can say that she was allowed to live because of the promise Kayaba made to Kirito before the battle. Either way, I guess, requires some interpretation.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:22   Link #102
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Ok. That Immortal Object fiasco was for Heathcliff. He was an immortal object when Kirito slashed him right?

When they decided to duel, he changed his status to Mortal object so that everybody can see he's not cheating or anything.
Spoiler for Comparison to the novels:
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:23   Link #103
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Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
Ok. That Immortal Object fiasco was for Heathcliff. He was an immortal object when Kirito slashed him right?

When they decided to duel, he changed his status to Mortal object so that everybody can see he's not cheating or anything.
The problem is the English text said "Chaged into Immortal Object". It may just have been a typo, though (in addition to "changed").
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:24   Link #104
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This is my first time, in my life of watching anime, I had tears of sadness and tears of joy welling up in my eyes in a SINGLE episode. This episode is perfect. Shows the powerful love between Asuna and Kirito - even in a virtual world. Having strong relationships to each other in virtual worlds can bring relationships to real worlds; at least that's what I learned from this anime. I can't wait for the next episode. I am really curious on how everyone would react to find out who completed to game.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:28   Link #105
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Either way, I guess, requires some interpretation.
And that's the issue. The series relies on quite a few ass-pulls, that's a fact. I don't mind it myself, but I can understand why someone else would.

There's really no need to argue about this.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:29   Link #106
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Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
As to why Asuna is still alive. Any number of reasons can be made up, mercy, breaking the game, ect. Even though rationally, you can try to put the game up to a perfect pedestal with ironclad rules, but the show showed enough instances where 'emotion' or whatever can over-ride aspects of it.
True enough. We could just use the stuff the show has presented us with, such as the 10 second time limit that the resurrection item must be used before it becomes ineffective.

Hm. I don't really disagree, but could you name off some of those instances? Stuff like.. the ghost of the guy's wife in the Murder arc?

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Originally Posted by Aurus View Post
Some points why Asuna probably didnt die:

1. Kirito told to the Admin that Asuna cant kill herself.. which she did in this case..
2. Do you remember the item which can revieve players some seconds after their dead? Maybe there a small time after the ingame dead and the real dead... Since the game ended while Asuna was in "that" time, she didint die.

Just my mind.
2 things:

1. The person who had the item, Klein, was paralyzed.
2. He could of very well used that item on the next random person he saw die.

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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
Interpretations and assumptions aren't good enough. I need an actual legitimate reason or explanation for these things. If it comes later on in the story, then alright, but I don't have very high hopes for that at the moment.

Also how was Kirito able to move his arms after his HP hit 0? Even if there was that delay you mention, he should have been a totally immobile state even after his HP was gone.
Fair enough. It's legitimate enough for me, but I can see why it wouldn't be for others.

Well, why shouldn't he be able to do so? Most people just seem to give up after their HP runs out. Plus, the story seems to imply that as their body becomes transparent, they become weaker. He was still standing due to the fact that he had a sword in him, so all he had to do was thrust Asuna's rapier into Heathcliff.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I personally don't mind because I knew what I was getting into when I started watching, but I can absolutely understand if someone can't except that sort of things so easily. So yeah, I think Duckroll has a point.
Honestly, there's a difference between "not expecting that sort of thing" and hating on the show so much that his opinion changes from a criticism to a rant. Throwing around buzzwords doesn't really help, either. ~_~

Reading his rant was like reading something straight from /a/.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:32   Link #107
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
And that's the issue. The series relies on quite a few ass-pulls, that's a fact. I don't mind it myself, but I can understand why someone else would.

There's really no need to argue about this.
I prefer to discuss it rather than just come to the foregone conclusion that "the series relies on quite a few ass-pulls, that's a fact". If things aren't clear, then discussing our interpretation of events and seeing if the story itself proves them either correct or incorrect seem to me like a pretty valid line of conversation.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:34   Link #108
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That was awesome. So Heathcliff was actually Kayaba in disguise. I'll leave it up to the power of love that Kirito and Asuna are alive.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:43   Link #109
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
If things aren't clear, then discussing our interpretation of events.
But that's tangential to the issue. My point was the some things shouldn't be left to interpretation to begin with, specially when we're talking about the devices that allowed the main characters to resolve the conflict.

I don't want, nor do I need to be spoon fed, but if a character does something that, based on everything you have seen up to that point, shouldn't be possible, I want an explicit explanation of why it was possible. I don't want that particular thing to be left to interpretation. I even think that's a writing issue right there.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:44   Link #110
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
A bit convenient? Asuna breaks free of her paralysis on her own, for example, and even though Kayaba admits he didn't even program a way to break free of it, all he has to say about is "I guess these things happen sometimes".

That's not convenient, that's all out ass-pull. At most you could explain it as the power of love or something like that but that's still pretty out there, specially for this setting.

I personally don't mind because I knew what I was getting into when I started watching, but I can absolutely understand if someone can't except that sort of things so easily. So yeah, I think Duckroll has a point.
For this we need to asume that the game is prefectly coded and that there is absolutly no software bugs what so ever, in fact as a programmer, I can say that there is no such case where there is no bugs around. This could easily be a bug, he is a programmer so he shouldn't be supprised. Probobly not the case here :P but could really easily explain it, and most other wierd things.

Another asumption many make is that peoples who die in the game instantly die in the real world as well, what about it potentially could be differ in time, what about it being headcliff who actually in the end send the terminate command? What if... what iff... and so on what I'm trying to say is that you need to asume something first and totally strongly belive it in for the rest to hold true, but some stuff have never been explained, most just asume it.

There is many many potential ways to explain it but I'll leave most of them out of here, however I have theories about this debate but since I cannot post it here as it requires future events, PM me if you guys die to know but I would not recomend it as it would potentially spoil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
The problem is the English text said "Chaged into Immortal Object". It may just have been a typo, though (in addition to "changed").
This is indeed a Typo lol, as we all know, quite common in Anime.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:52   Link #111
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
But we've had 8 episodes of development between now and then to develop and progress that idea. We see how Kirito's philosophy affects Asuna which culminates in their marriage, and then how they live their life in Aincrad (on their Honeymoon), and then how the situation with Yui (and situations that follow) remind them that they actually can't stay on this world forever, culimating in Episode 13 with the determination to clear the game that got resolved in this episode.
Guess I just didn't find it convincing enough development then considering how short it felt and what situations they were in. Don't really know what to say.

Quote:
It seems that Kayaba was surprised by this too, given his reaction, but he accepted it. But we did see other people take actions after their HP hit zero (moving their arms and the like) -- just having the strength to lift a weapon is probably beyond the norm. He did indeed say that the he didn't expect people would exceed the expected limits of his programming (to "surpass the laws of his own world").
Too bad I'm unable to just spontaneously accept something like that unlike Kayaba. How exactly was Kirito and Asuna able to "surpass the laws of the world"? Unless there's a clear explanation for that, I can't accept it. People here are interpreting it as "the power of love" or "Kayaba removed her paralysis" but neither of those were actually confirmed.

(BTW if it IS "the power of love" responsible, I'll accept what happened, but I'll still find it stupid. )
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:03   Link #112
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Too bad I'm unable to just spontaneously accept something like that unlike Kayaba. How exactly was Kirito and Asuna able to "surpass the laws of the world"? Unless there's a clear explanation for that, I can't accept it. People here are interpreting it as "the power of love" or "Kayaba removed her paralysis" but neither of those were actually confirmed.

(BTW if it IS "the power of love" responsible, I'll accept what happened, but I'll still find it stupid. )
I guess, as was said, unless they clarify later on (which is of course possible) we can never know for sure. I suppose that, if they were able to surpass the laws of the world as Kayaba said, then they too many not know how they did it yet, but it could be explained later on (since the story is still continuing).

I guess I can understand that people would prefer for these sorts of questions to be cleanly answered. I personally enjoy trying to figure it out on my own, so I guess it doesn't bother me as much. I always assume there's some sort of rational explanation for everything until proven otherwise (but the laws of what is "rational" are a bit of a funny thing in a videogame world).
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:04   Link #113
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Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-06 at 17:11. Reason: just to be safe...
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:05   Link #114
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But that's tangential to the issue. My point was the some things shouldn't be left to interpretation to begin with, specially when we're talking about the devices that allowed the main characters to resolve the conflict.

I don't want, nor do I need to be spoon fed, but if a character does something that, based on everything you have seen up to that point, shouldn't be possible, I want an explicit explanation of why it was possible. I don't want that particular thing to be left to interpretation. I even think that's a writing issue right there.

Once Kayaba himself said he had planned to betray everybody and turn into the "Final Boss", the dual wield awarded to the "Hero" and that he had planned this world and setting all along you could start to interpret it as him already choreographing the "Ending", although it was a premature one. In how many RPGs, barring the retries, do you see an ending where the Hero doesn't win or one of the characters sacrifices him/herself for the Hero.

Edit: Coming back to Kayaba's wish to create and live in his own Fantasy world. If you ever played pen & paper RPGs and taken the role of dungeonmaster or gamemaster you can imagine Kayaba's mind set. Sometimes you want the players to follow the flow of the story or set them on an specific goal and you end up pulling stuff out your ass to cover for "unexpected behavior".
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:06   Link #115
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Not really sure why people want concise detailed explanations for every single thing. Sometimes things happen because the story called for it to happen. Its like the whole deal with "how are people kept alive"

It boggles my mind why that became the focus of many posts and episode threads when it really isn't an important issue to the story. They didn't even have to try to give an explanation about it in story, at the end, you could just have kirito waking up in the hospital, and everyone be like 'oh they were all in a hospital' who would have imagined....

Even without properly explained, Asuna surviving, shouldn't come up as some big impossible conclusion. Given that even though the game code is suppose to be strong, there were instances where things went against the game code.

Wife's ghost @ the grave. The Emotion Assistance AI thing going out on its own.
Hell, minutes before, Asuna broke free of the GM-Paralysis Powers, and seconds before. Kirito was able to deal damage after HP going to 0.

You can think of different ways for why Asuna lives. There's no exact reason why, other than that's what the story called for. You can dislike that as much as you want, but I don't see how you can see it happening to be an impossibility. It doesn't even have to be in the game-code. Kayaba might just wanted to let her live because he felt like it. These two gave him enough entertainment the whole two years, it be a shame to break them apart. Standard psycho.

Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-06 at 18:25. Reason: Added comparison spoiler tags just in case
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:10   Link #116
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Sometimes things happen because the story called for it to happen.
You are aware that proper writing doesn't work that way, right? What you're describing here is every poor writing.
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:10   Link #117
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Once Kayaba himself said he had planned to betray everybody and turn into the "Final Boss", the dual wield awarded to the "Hero" and that he had planned this world and setting all along you could start to interpret it as him already choreographing the "Ending", although it was a premature one. In how many RPGs, barring the retries, do you see an ending where the Hero doesn't win or one of the characters sacrifices him/herself for the Hero.
To further that line a little bit, it's a bit hard to imagine what would have happened in the world of SAO if both Kirito and Asuna (two of the most powerful players) had been allowed to die there in that sort of circumstance. So yeah... I did basically see it as a choreographed ending, which is why Kayaba smiled just before he was dealt the finishing blow. Sort of "all's well that ends well". Asuna's sacrifice, Kirito's revenge right at the moment of his death... as Kayaba said, it's a "good story". The whole story within a story is a bit meta of course.
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:13   Link #118
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I do wonder why he even proposed the duel. Didn't he want to show off the last 25 levels?
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:14   Link #119
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I do wonder why he even proposed the duel. Didn't he want to show off the last 25 levels?
Perhaps since his identity was found quickly, he didn't want to wait for a long time until the players had enough levels to challenge him? Just my thought
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:18   Link #120
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That studio fail, "Chaged into Immortal Object", google translate would have done a better job. Hope they'll fix it in BD, otherwise it's just too sad

I wish they had changed the duel a bit, saying he won't rely on sword skills and using them 5 seconds later (/facepalm).
It'd have made more sense for him to realise his mistake after activating his skill, followed by a monologue.

That plothole, Asuna's HP dropped to zero and her avatar vanished. According to Ep.1, her brain should have been fried, there was a two minute animation gap between her death and Heathcliffs' (~40 seconds between her death and Heathcliff wounding Kirito). Yet we see her still alive standing on the platform.

Kayaba Akihiko, if he had a short beard I'd have called him the younger brother of mad scientist, Hououin Kyoma!

Next episode, "Return", will probably focus on their real life after SAO.
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