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Old 2012-10-06, 19:57   Link #521
Kirroha
Just... disturbed.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Found this.

Spoiler:
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Old 2012-10-06, 20:10   Link #522
Fevvers
a regular van veen
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirroha View Post
Found this.

Spoiler:
Hah! That scene just had to be made fun of. Seeing them strut in the street like a bunch of Victoria Secret models was a huge joke. Trying too hard to be cool.
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Old 2012-10-06, 21:02   Link #523
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
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Well watching this I got know idea what is going on they really did to much in the first episode
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Old 2012-10-06, 21:51   Link #524
Insane
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^Well, Actually this first episode already fulfilled several "have to" conditions in every first episode of every shows.
1) Introduce the main character(s)
2) Describe the main character(s)
3) Describe the settings
4) Present the main conflict(s) for the main character(s)
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Old 2012-10-06, 22:44   Link #525
creb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So what do you think makes for good writing, and what do you think makes for bad writing? Is everything equally well-written? If not, what makes the difference between best writing, next best writing, average writing, bad writing, etc...?

Is any approach at all to writing perfectly acceptable?

Every craft has basic standards for what constitutes good craftsmanship. Writing is, at least to some degree, a craft.
It's not that simple. First off, the intent of one's writing matters. If one was writing an ad to sell their car, then yes, I'd agree that there's some basic standards for what constitutes "good" writing.

But, when one is writing to entertain, I don't believe there are set standards at all, as we've moved from a fairly standardized concept (in so much as the vast majority of people who would want to buy a car are looking for some basic info), to a far less standardized concept (in so much that there is far more variety in terms of what individuals might find entertaining). To answer your question, yes, I do think any approach is acceptable. There's a lot of shows that I've come to enjoy that I would never have if I simply wrote them off as being badly written because of X, Y, or Z.

Now, I realize one could argue "good" writing for anime is writing that helps an anime be a financial success. If we look at today's money-spending anime audience, then I guess I would have to admit that there are a set of rules or standards to maximize the chances your anime makes money. Many of those standards would be things I abhor. I suspect, however, that's not quite the definition of "good" writing you were talking about.

Which, I guess is my long-winded way of saying how subjective things can't really have universal standards applied to them, without looking at an objective aspect of those things. Sales, audience ratings, as an example. Viewer enjoyment? I don't think so.

Even in school, when educators use a piece of literary work as an example of "good" writing, it's usually for mechanical reasons. It used to piss me off to no end when I was really young, that they'd always force us to read things I thought were boring as all heck, until I realized the actual plots were insignificant to the purpose behind having us read those stories.

On another note, am I the only one immature enough to lol when blondie with the large boobies said, "It's huge!" Are those swords going to actually serve a purpose, or are they just going to be the most unsubtle phallic imagery in a shounen fighting anime ever?
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Old 2012-10-06, 23:07   Link #526
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
It's not that simple.
To a certain degree, it is.

Plot holes are bad, period. They contribute nothing to the story, and they can turn off some readers or viewers. Writing that minimizes plot holes is just objectively better than writing that is plot hole-ridden, all else being equal.

Scenes that are properly contextualized will tend to have more emotional impact than scenes that aren't. Be honest - Do you care more about an action scene that comes out of nowhere and involves characters you don't know, or do you care more about an action scene that has excellent build-up for it and involves characters you know a lot about?

Honestly, I think that your take on writing does a real disservice to writers who take good care in properly developing their fictional worlds and characters, and can write good dramatic scenes because the careful buildup to it earns that drama.

Your take on writing would say that some hack writer that just tries to be entertaining without doing any proper world-building or character development and who's work is just dripping with melodrama is just as good as a writer that carefully plans and plots out his/her story and character development.


No, not all approaches to writing are perfectly acceptable. Some are better than others. There are some basic good practices for good writing, even if you are writing to be entertaining.
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Old 2012-10-06, 23:31   Link #527
creb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
To a certain degree, it is.

Plot holes are bad, period. They contribute nothing to the story, and they can turn off some readers or viewers. Writing that minimizes plot holes is just objectively better than writing that is plot hole-ridden, all else being equal.

Scenes that are properly contextualized will tend to have more emotional impact than scenes that aren't. Be honest - Do you care more about an action scene that comes out of nowhere and involves characters you don't know, or do you care more about an action scene that has excellent build-up for it and involves characters you know a lot about?

Honestly, I think that your take on writing does a real disservice to writers who take good care in properly developing their fictional worlds and characters, and can write good dramatic scenes because the careful buildup to it earns that drama.

Your take on writing would say that some hack writer that just tries to be entertaining without doing any proper world-building or character development and who's work is just dripping with melodrama is just as good as a writer that carefully plans and plots out his/her story and character development.


No, not all approaches to writing are perfectly acceptable. Some are better than others. There are some basic good practices for good writing, even if you are writing to be entertaining.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because while I understand exactly what you're saying, it speaks of a world-view completely different from mine. Maybe I'm just too old and cynical to believe elements of fairness has anything to do with whether something is received as "good" or "bad", and I definitely am too cynical and old to believe "good" or "bad" (at least in the sense that you're using the terms), have any objectivity attached to them.

If someone isn't bothered by a plot hole (or five), who am I to take them to task over it? If the purpose of a piece of writing is to entertain, and it does, then does it matter if it fit someone's notion of what is proper and what isn't?

I will reiterate that I do believe that writing can be considered "good" or "bad", objectively, when viewed purely on its mechanical merits. I just don't believe that that translates to whether a person actually enjoys or doesn't enjoy a piece of written work.
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Old 2012-10-07, 01:35   Link #528
dark998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fevvers View Post
Hah! That scene just had to be made fun of. Seeing them strut in the street like a bunch of Victoria Secret models was a huge joke. Trying too hard to be cool.
They were simply walking down the street like a normal group of friends. The bystanders certainly didn't react to them in any special way.

But I guess certain people are trying way too hard to find nonexistent flaws, eh?
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Old 2012-10-07, 03:55   Link #529
Fevvers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dark998 View Post
They were simply walking down the street like a normal group of friends. The bystanders certainly didn't react to them in any special way.

But I guess certain people are trying way too hard to find nonexistent flaws, eh?
I just think it looks hilarious bro. Chill.
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Old 2012-10-07, 05:00   Link #530
cheesie
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Really now, the anti-BL fanboy blah brigade should have their own fandom label. They're popping up everywhere in any action, male-dominated series with so much as suggestive BL hints, constantly whinging and crying over something as pathetically miniscule as a guy blushing and throwing a tantrum about abandoning the series when it's the FIRST EPISODE. The kicker is when these very people ended up being the very ones advocating the BL even more than the fujoshis themselves, a considerable feat indeed.

Kindly suck it up and take it like a man, if the girls are putting up with a decade of uninspiring yuri fanservice that induces much eyerolling.

Anyway, the first episode practically tells me nothing but I'm applying the three episode rule here: if it doesn't get the ball rolling, I'm jumping off the bandwagon. I must give the show this though: the animation is breathtakingly beautiful, hats off to the team.
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Old 2012-10-07, 05:24   Link #531
Forever
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Well I am against both yoai and yuri. I prefer seeing to see relationships to be normal..

Unfortunately, anime's purpose is to explore the abnormal....
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Old 2012-10-07, 05:35   Link #532
brocko
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As long as it doesn't go too overboard with the fanservice (either kind really), it's not going to be something that'll put me off. When it starts becoming in-your-face-blatant, that's when it becomes a problem I reckon.
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Old 2012-10-07, 06:13   Link #533
cheesie
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brocko: There's that. Then there are the anti-BL rabid fanboys (you may find them in various forums and blogposts whining about icky yaoi) which I consider them to be the opposite extreme of fujoshi fans: they spaz differently, but they hilariously managed to unite with their delusional goggles and constant uplifting of BL themes.

Anyway, I'm going back to waiting for the next episode, while indulging myself on the staple ingredient of every woman's (well almost) leisure time: Korean drama. cheers!
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Old 2012-10-07, 07:45   Link #534
Marcus H.
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Haha, speculah time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia article on Damocles
The sword of Damocles is frequently used in allusion to this tale, epitomizing the imminent and ever-present peril faced by those in positions of power.
After watching the first episode, the plot suddenly reminds me of Air Gear, which involves street battles between numerous gangs.
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Old 2012-10-07, 10:13   Link #535
Kirroha
Just... disturbed.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesie View Post
brocko: There's that. Then there are the anti-BL rabid fanboys (you may find them in various forums and blogposts whining about icky yaoi) which I consider them to be the opposite extreme of fujoshi fans: they spaz differently, but they hilariously managed to unite with their delusional goggles and constant uplifting of BL themes.

Anyway, I'm going back to waiting for the next episode, while indulging myself on the staple ingredient of every woman's (well almost) leisure time: Korean drama. cheers!
I prefer the Hong Kong drama. (Which is why I am watching this, because this reminds me of Hong Kong dramas. XD Fighting factions yoz.)
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Old 2012-10-07, 10:27   Link #536
Kanon
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People sure are making a big deal of a single blush. For all we know, there will be no yaoi whatsoever and that blush was simply used to indicate Blackie is such an incredibly pretty boy he looks like a girl.
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Old 2012-10-07, 13:29   Link #537
Kaoru Chujo
Kuno Misaki
 
 
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Looked great. A few great Shaftly angles. Moved along, with lots of quick hints about situation and characters, while leaving plenty to fill in.

I liked the BL hints, especially the nice blush. A nice light touch. And one image of apparently-innocent Shiro with his cat almost made even me squee.

Loved the voices, but especially Satou Satomi as the girl who wanted to give him lunch. Some very interesting little turns of voice.

The loli in the gang was played by Horie Yui. The character is clearly there to add moe, but the logic of it is that she is their secret weapon lie detector. Makes sense to me.

As for the gang parading down the street, it was laughable if you wanted to laugh, but it also made a strong image. And I think anime is a myth-creator rather than a medium for simple realism. So it worked for me.
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Old 2012-10-07, 13:35   Link #538
Kouvley
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Visually impressive.......but that's about it as far as ep1 is concerned.

Story and character-wise there was very little to chew on or get excited about, and consequently I didn't feel very engaged.

I agree with some others that it did come across a bit like they were trying too hard to look cool and stylish, in the end it felt more like a tech demo that you'd show potential investors or something.

Hopefully we'll get more substance from the next episode.
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Old 2012-10-07, 14:58   Link #539
jzmagic
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Join Date: Mar 2006
I feel like this series is the shoujo version of Air Gear. Animation is gorgeous and there's a ton of eyecandy for the ladies. Not sure if I can get into it as a guy though, especially with the BL undertones.
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Old 2012-10-07, 15:31   Link #540
leokiko
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I've been negativated here in this very forum several times for bashing animes with BL undertones. But even though this one had that blushing which annoyed the crap outta me, the visual style easily won me over. I was constantly mesmerized by what was happening on-screen.

As long as it doesn't develop into a full blown yaoi(I appreciate some good bromance, but nothing past that) I will be following this.
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