Character Discussion - Lelouch

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by somersault

@gundamfan49348309430

Just because the creators of the show didn't declare an official pairing, that doesn't mean there weren't hints of what could possibly be; honestly, Shirley and Kallen were both candidates to develop a romantic relationship with Lelouch, had circumstances allowed it.

I'm not interested in hints about Lelouch's romantic feelings.
I'm interested in facts.
All of the three major potential loves in his life were candidates, but according to the anime, not one of them won the prize (Lelouch).
Using pure speculation only (i.e. opinion), Shirley wins in my view because both she and Lelouch are dead.
Of course, using purely speculation from the anime we can also say that the only woman who was able to stop Lelouch in his rebellion was Euphie.
He did act romantically towards her on Kaminejima Island, and the R2 Guidebook does say he loved her.
A big part of his motivation for ZR is to clear her name.
Maybe we're all wrong, and as Setsubo Bunny used to say, our boy Lelouch is really screwed up in the head.

My point is, just because there are no tons of interviews to say "THIS IS THE COUPLE, I'M ANNOUNCING THIS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE 5 YRS OLD AND CANNOT DRAW CONCLUSIONS ON THEIR OWN K BAI BAI".
When triangles or rectangles are involved, usually the writers refrain from declaring canons and such, so everybody can believe the couple they supported was the most plausible. Well, tough shit, creators are trolling while at the same time hinting. (hinting to the smart people, obviously.)

In other words I've owned you in this argument and you now it.
You don't respect the views of others and you've shown that repeatedly here with regard to what other Code Geass fans think Lelouch's feelings/thoughts were.

In contrast, I do respect ALL of the other fans, even the Rolo x Lelouch, Milley x Lelouch, Euphie x Lelouch, Kaguya x Lelouch, and Suzaku x Lelouch fans.
They are no more or less correct about Lelouch's romantic feelings than the Shirley-, CC-, or Kallen x Lelouch fans; and that has been my point since I first came here.
Unless I see something official that declares what Lelouch's feelings/thoughts were towards any of the women (and a few men) who loved him, I'm not going to tolerate declarations of "Lelouch loved A, B, or C" as factual because they aren't.

There are several examples of that, on the top of my head Macross Frontier for one, everybody with a functional brain knows that the canon couple is Alto/Sheryl, or FFVII, same with Tifa/Cloud.

That's because Macross has always been clear on their couples from the begining.
Even the love triangle between Minmay, Misa, and Hikaru had a final outcome of Misa and Hikaru going off into the galaxy together with Minmay realizing that Hikaru belongs with Misa.
I mention this because Macross Frontier is supposed to mirror the original series.
Head writer Hiroyuki Yoshino came right out in Newtype magazine and said that Alto and Sheryl were the offical pairing after the last episode just like Hikaru and Misa were.
There are even offical wedding pictures of those two.

Spoiler for Alto and Sheryl:

Spoiler for 2nd Alto Sheryl offical wedding pic:

That's far from ambiguous like Code Geass is.

Code Geass doesn't have anything close to being that concrete.
We don't know what Lelouch's feelings are the way we know what Hikaru and Alto felt towards Misa and Sheryl respectively.

[somersault]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

blah blah
blah blah blah

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Code Geass doesn't have anything close to being that concrete.
We don't know what Lelouch's feelings are the way we know what Hikaru and Alto felt towards Misa and Sheryl respectively.

Same ol', same ol'. Like I said, if you need someone to point to you, that when Lelouch chooses to leave Kallen out of ZR, his most valuable asset in terms of combat, so she can live on like he said to her, that speaks volumes.

Next thing I know, is that you tell me Jack from the movie Titanic didn't love Rose, because he didn't tell her he did, not even once in the movie. Yet his actions spoke louder.

See, hint - actions sometimes speak louder than words.

/in b4 you tell me "blah blah Lelouch had Suzaku, what did he need Kallen for?" To which I will reply to you, to ensure that ZR is successful, for two awesome pilots will always be stronger than one. But no, he left her out of it because feelings.

Still mad? I guess so.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by shinigami99

Lelouch has his harem, and I'm happy with that, but I think it would have been better for the writers to try to develop these "relationships" more than they were in the series. Probably the most developed one was ShirLulu, yet even in this pairing we are not sure to the extent to which Lelouch liked Shirley. The fact that there is a debate (and the fact that people are relying on post-series guidebooks) about the extent of the C.C. and Kallen's relationship with Lelouch (Partner, lover etc.) means that this wasn't developed as it should (or at least, what I thought it should have been).

Agreed.
They decided not to get into the meat of it as Okouchi points out in the Continue 42 interviews he did in 2008/09. Taniguichi explains that they left that open at the end of the show (Newtype Nov. 2009 issue).
That's how I know for a fact there is no official pairing and why I get on the Kalulu-extremists so much.
They act like they have some type of inside information on Lelouch's mind and/or feelings, yet when the same methods they use are applied to the two other female leads they get all bent out of shape about it.
It's rather hypocritical on their part.

However, this also can't be helped since shit was continuously hitting the fan in Code Geass and there was literally no possible time for this development to take place. Or at least, what was shown in the anime. Code Geass wouldn't really be Code Geass without shit hitting the fan all the time so I guess sacrifices had to be made.

And that is exactly what both the director and head writer said.
Lelouch's focus is his rebellion, not women chasing him.

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

Since the character I supported died, I really don't have a car in this race, but I'll say this much, all three female characters had their chance, unfortunately Leluich was too hung out on revenge, a crappy childhood, a sister fetish, and just a general doom and gloom atitude, that any of Tge three could have paraded naked in front of him and he might have got an itch!
Suffice it too say I've moved on and am enjoying Akito now.
But please continue the delusional meanderings, it's quite entertaining!

We agree.
Normally I wouldn't give a Kalulu the time of day on this issue, but I was feeling feisty this week.

[Aquaman OS]

He cared for all of them. But in the end romance and Lelouch were not to be. And none of them won, since he died (unless you count Shirley, but since they both died, well.....that's not exactly a happy win there).

Since Lelouch is confirmed to be dead, and it's unlikely they'll ever revisit the Geass verse after ZR, the matter is basically closed.

Mayhaps at a later date they'll make an AU film or something where he does get one of the girls (that seems to be a popular thing to do) but that's not now.

[darthfury78]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I'm not interested in hints about Lelouch's romantic feelings.
I'm interested in facts.
All of the three major potential loves in his life were candidates, but according to the anime, not one of them won the prize (Lelouch).

That's far from ambiguous like Code Geass is.

Code Geass doesn't have anything close to being that concrete.
We don't know what Lelouch's feelings are the way we know what Hikaru and Alto felt towards Misa and Sheryl respectively.

I agree that Code Geass official pairings was ambiguous in contrast to Macross Frontier. While I would loved to have seen Mily x Lelouch, along with Kallen x Lelouch, I have to say that the TV show provided us with neither outcome, as well as not providing any development between Suzaku x Cecil which mirrors Hikaru x Misa from Macross.

But as far as death goes, we could say that either there is Shirley x Lelouch or (if he's an immortal) C.C. x Lelouch as the final outcome to the story.

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

He cared for all of them. But in the end romance and Lelouch were not to be. And none of them won, since he died (unless you count Shirley, but since they both died, well.....that's not exactly a happy win there).

Since Lelouch is confirmed to be dead, and it's unlikely they'll ever revisit the Geass verse after ZR, the matter is basically closed.

Mayhaps at a later date they'll make an AU film or something where he does get one of the girls (that seems to be a popular thing to do) but that's not now.

I too doubt that they'll ever be a Code Geass series that continues after Zero's requiem. As you correctly stated, the only possible option would be an alternate version of Code Geass R2 where Lelouch won the conflict against Suzaku at the close of Season One. And the only way for Lelouch to have won was with Kallen's help. Her decision to run away allowed Suzaku to win the conflict and that's what led to the change of Code Geass R2. But that's just my opinion.

[db84x]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

But as far as death goes, we could say that either there is Shirley x Lelouch or (if he's an immortal) C.C. x Lelouch as the final outcome to the story.

You already said what I want to said, since the ending itself is ambiguous (there are some hint that Lelouch live and the author self said the ending based on our interpretation). And the director have a good reason to cut it because he don't want to made same anime with same protagonist since they too popular to replace like Pokemon series (There always Shigeru/Ash, Pikachu, Takeshi/Brock (replace briefly but come again) and Tim Rocket).

Originally Posted by darthfury78

I too doubt that they'll ever be a Code Geass series that continues after Zero's requiem. As you correctly stated, the only possible option would be an alternate version of Code Geass R2 where Lelouch won the conflict against Suzaku at the close of Season One. And the only way for Lelouch to have won was with Kallen's help. Her decision to run away allowed Suzaku to win the conflict and that's what led to the change of Code Geass R2. But that's just my opinion.

That why Leluch won't trust Kallen 100% again, unlike Shirley or C.C.