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Old 2012-10-03, 05:26   Link #581
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Coke manufactured in the US only comes in plastic bottles, but Mexican Coke still comes in the glass bottles. Since Mexican Coke uses cane sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup, there's actually a market for imported Coke, but most stores don't carry it. I wouldn't expect to find them in restaurants or bars -- other than pizza and sub shops, most places use fountains because the CO2 and syrup is far cheaper than bottles (seriously, the disposable cups at McDonalds cost more than the soda) and can be stored in a space the size of a broom closet instead of taking up a large chunk of the the cooler.
We have it at the supermarket here (and imported Fanta) but it's definitely more expensive than regular coke.


Anyways I am all for a future where we have soda with real sugar as the norm. That's what the show is saying right?
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Old 2012-10-03, 10:03   Link #582
cyth
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
The question is, who is the more preferential person? A person who won't budge on the initial rules placed, or the person who adapts to changes (and positively)?
These exams all had certain kinds of themes and I'm sure the show won't be repeating them for the sake of coherence. The first exam was physical and mental ability. The second exam was stress handling, the third exam will be trust.

While I agree that Mizoguchi failed the leadership test during the second exam, that's not necessarily the position he'll be applying for when on a space mission. I'm also sure you're right that adaptability will play a major role in the whole selection process. It already has. The main goal of the second selection exam, however, was to see how the candidates performed inside a locked space for a lengthy period of time. For the purpose of the test, JAXA wasn't building Mizoguchi's nor anyone else's dream team, they merely wanted to see how candidates perform under extreme stress. They specifically built teams with maximized potential for conflict, so even if Mizoguchi had kept his mouth shut, his mental state indicator would have been providing the naked data. What we saw were the visual symptomes of stress, while JAXA was also evaluating the reported numbers. Makabe almost snapped, but bounced back. Mizoguchi was thoroughly devastated when he heard about the green card business, yet he went back to reconstruct the results. I believe both of them performed extremely well in the stress handling category; there is no clear winner here.

Now for the final selection exam, who to trust with your life is an extremely hard question to answer.

Would you trust the nicest person from the bunch? The most capable? The one with the best observation skills? The one who adapts better? A careful person, perhaps? Or perhaps a person who can, when the time comes, make a hard decision?

Based on what we've seen, I can predict different winners for each of these questions. Mizoguchi's weakness is adaptability, but he's extremely careful and will carry out a tough order or make a hard decision. Mutta isn't careful, but extremely observant and adaptive. Kenji is probably a well all-rounder, as well as Nitta.

And I don't want to talk shit about Serika because she's cute, lol.
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Old 2012-10-03, 10:40   Link #583
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I'm not so sure about Mizoguchi and the "make a hard decision" question. His first instinct in every situation seems to be "How will this impact me personally?" I agree he isn't a totally bad guy, because this isn't that kind of show. But he's the only one who did anything remotely as nasty as using Kenji's daughter to try and mess with his head.

I think in the end all of these exam phases are designed to try and answer one question: How will these people react when everything goes to hell and everyone's life hangs on how they perform? It's impossible to truly know the answer to that, so all of these tests are designed to fill in the blanks and reduce uncertainty as much as possible.
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Old 2012-10-03, 18:01   Link #584
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If Mizoguchi doesn't make it past this point, it may simply be because skill and ability isn't the whole picture. All of them got this far, because they could 'do' the job. But few really want to go to space, live in close contact to, and trust their life to someone they really don't like. I just don't see this guy saving himself here. Doesn't know much of anything about the others here, is hanging back not trying the food and looking like he wants to get out. Now his personal cautiousness might help him figure out what kind of situation is going on, but it's too late to really benefit him.

As to the question of who you'd trust, I'd go with the guy I wouldn't be tempted to throw out an airlock. If this guy is frustrating to be around right now, just imagine being stuck in space with Mizoguchi....it'd be hell. It's fine to have a different personality, but by this point he should be closer to the people still here. But because he turned everything into a competition with his point system, all he has are competitors.

Just can't see this guy going. But at the same time seems like we'd be going in circles. In the end we can't just focus on one thing or another. The astronauts here are going to make their call regarding the whole picture. Should be fun to see how it turns out and of course how that Mutta and Azuma chat goes .
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Old 2012-10-03, 19:07   Link #585
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It might be some sort of utilitarianism for Mizoguchi. Having gotten this far I'm sure it's because everyone is clearly competent, but the thing with Mizoguchi is that in as much as he's highly capable, he's not getting into the sense of camaraderie that is clearly important when you're stuck with 2 other people thousands of miles from your home planet.

He's like a machine in that sense. Efficient and unaffected, but that's a clear problem in a vocation where working together with a sense of brotherhood in one of the most things in deep space. As it stands, if he can learn some sense of sociability, he'd also be a very deserving astronaut.
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Old 2012-10-03, 19:23   Link #586
Kirarakim
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The only reason why I think Mizoguchi might pass is from a story perspective, it might be interesting to see that there is more to his character. We will only be able to see that if he passes.
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Old 2012-10-04, 04:42   Link #587
Quadratic
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I agree with Guardian Enzo that he viewed every situation under "How will this impact me personally?"

I kinda have to backpedal a little on the 'Mizoguchi isn't a bad guy'. Unfortunately, his observation skills lead him to notice Makabe was a natural leader, so he started gunning for him (he did say Makabe was his biggest obstacle).
I forgot about the whole daughter thing which was quite underhanded. During the alarm issue, rather than seeking to solve issues diplomatically, he accuses Makabe (in his own mind) and sought revenge by playing mindgames.
He was aware he was under watch so he played it so he didn't come off as a bad guy. The other time was when he tried to force Teshima and Makabe to drop out of the selection process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
These exams all had certain kinds of themes and I'm sure the show won't be repeating them for the sake of coherence. The first exam was physical and mental ability. The second exam was stress handling, the third exam will be trust.
Mizoguchi's view probably has the same view as the point you're saying: thinking it was a just stress handling test.
But it wasn't just a stress handling test. They maximized potential conflicts to accelerate the stress so they could watch their interaction between peers under stress, which is why they always had people watching them and listening in on their conversations.

He believed it is purely a stress handling test and the superior dataset will prove the more capable astronaut.
But does data tell the whole truth?
Under Mizoguchi's lead, the morale kept dropping. From a purely dataset point of view, maybe Mizoguchi dropped the least and was the best under pressure from their team.
This was his plan to beat Makabe, his biggest obstacle, by "falsifying" Makabe's data results by playing mindgames with him so he comes out better.
But observations will tell you he caused morale to drop in all the team members, which was his also probably his stress reliever (he did get some satisfaction out of playing the daughter story).

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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
While I agree that Mizoguchi failed the leadership test during the second exam, that's not necessarily the position he'll be applying for when on a space mission.
Well, the question then is whether Mizoguchi capable as a support member. What we haven't really seen is him stepping down from the leadership role for even a second. Hoshika believed the intelligence of their team would cause conflicts due to their pride, and he was right.

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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
Now for the final selection exam, who to trust with your life is an extremely hard question to answer.

Would you trust the nicest person from the bunch? The most capable? The one with the best observation skills? The one who adapts better? A careful person, perhaps? Or perhaps a person who can, when the time comes, make a hard decision?

Based on what we've seen, I can predict different winners for each of these questions. Mizoguchi's weakness is adaptability, but he's extremely careful and will carry out a tough order or make a hard decision. Mutta isn't careful, but extremely observant and adaptive. Kenji is probably a well all-rounder, as well as Nitta.
As FlareKnight and MeoTwister5 said, they are all competent enough to be astronauts (otherwise they've got issues with a poor pre-selection process system), so now it comes down to the existing astronauts' gut instinct (which is a good or bad system depending how you think of instinct as a test measurement).

The guy who asked Mizoguchi if he hated the food (can't remember his name) was spot on on his observation. Mizoguchi lied saying the food is good but he's watching his weight. That's the first lie.
Looking back at the scene where Mizoguchi was asked about Nitta, I feel I was wrong on him not knowing anything about Nitta.
Mizoguchi caught on to the act that this was a test, and it actually seems like he purposely pretended not to know anything so he doesn't portray Nitta in a better light or to portray himself in a bad light by saying something negative (a neutral answer). That's possibly the second lie.


I don't mean jump on the hate train and bash the guy, but these are the reasons why I don't think he's mentally a good candidate.

If Mizoguchi does get through, it's because upper management preferred superior dataset over emotions/gut instinct/behavioral observation.

Hoshika gave the best line in this show:
If you want to leave emotion out of the equation, you could let the computers decide.
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Old 2012-10-04, 05:20   Link #588
cyth
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Mizoguchi caught on to the act that this was a test, and it actually seems like he purposely pretended not to know anything so he doesn't portray Nitta in a better light or to portray himself in a bad light by saying something negative (a neutral answer). That's possibly the second lie.
But doesn't Mizoguchi's awareness of the test taking place put him at a disadvantage, sort of, because he can't act naturally anymore? You would think the selection committee would rather see him relaxed than a facade created to maintain composure. If the second selection exam was intended to produce stress, this exam is the complete opposite: they want to see candidates perform in a relaxed environment. Mizoguchi's read instinctively put him on edge. Look at the situation from his shoes: he's trying to be careful not to mess up. You can ask yourself why he's always expecting somebody to backstab him, but then again he doesn't know that because he's already behind the curtain, so to speak. I don't want to say paranoia, because that would have clearly disqualified him long ago, but that's a huge asset to be able to think outside of the box. Topping that off would be Mutta noticing something that should instead put everyone at ease. Maybe he already has, since he approached Azuma.
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Old 2012-10-05, 02:08   Link #589
Quadratic
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
But doesn't Mizoguchi's awareness of the test taking place put him at a disadvantage, sort of, because he can't act naturally anymore? You would think the selection committee would rather see him relaxed than a facade created to maintain composure. If the second selection exam was intended to produce stress, this exam is the complete opposite: they want to see candidates perform in a relaxed environment. Mizoguchi's read instinctively put him on edge. Look at the situation from his shoes: he's trying to be careful not to mess up. You can ask yourself why he's always expecting somebody to backstab him, but then again he doesn't know that because he's already behind the curtain, so to speak. I don't want to say paranoia, because that would have clearly disqualified him long ago, but that's a huge asset to be able to think outside of the box. Topping that off would be Mutta noticing something that should instead put everyone at ease. Maybe he already has, since he approached Azuma.
Apologies, it's probably been a long day because I'm finding it difficult to understand what you've posted... In any case:

Yes, he's at a disadvantage, but then again, isn't his 'natural act' the internal thoughts that the show has given us (eg. trying to make himself appear better, determined to bring down Makabe)? Meaning he needs the facade 100% of the time because of his true nature places him in a bad light?

What I think you're getting at, is that being constantly on the edge is an advantage?
I agree that constantly being on your toes is a good trait (to a certain extent) since failure can happen at any point in time during space travel but it becomes a more of a problem when this edge rubs off on his team members causing more stress than necessary.
"Would this person be able to live in space?" was the question shown directly with Mizoguchi and the existing astronaut.
While he might be capable by himself, having to live with others on the edge with his kind of personality...it's not exactly a nice situation to be in, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, I don't understand your point on thinking outside the box, since I can't recall him doing anything outside the box...unless you count his underhanded tactics against Makabe? (I'd count it )

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with Mutta approaching Azuma. He seems too drunk to realise or care if he's still under evaluation. It appears to me he's just approaching him because he admires him and/or possibly wants to sort out the issues with Hibito (or confront him about the chair issue).


I want to expand a little on the lying/pride issue. My most concern for Mizoguchi (if he becomes an astronaut) is what would he do if it's a few days prior to launch-off and he becomes sick.
From what we've seen from his behaviour, he seems like the kind of person who'd hide his sickness to ensure launch-off happens no matter what. That's a serious situation that can compromise the entire mission (ok, I'm pretending the medical team doesn't pick this up, but you get the point).
People might be thinking I'm nitpicking at this point (which I've been told time and time again), but space travel is "Serious Business (TM)", even the smallest doubt/mistake can have a huge cost.
Of course, it depends whether the guys at JAXA think he can overcome these flaws (or if they even picked it up) because while he might be technically capable, mentally/socially he's got some real issues that need ironing out.
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Old 2012-10-05, 07:11   Link #590
cyth
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with Mutta approaching Azuma. He seems too drunk to realise or care if he's still under evaluation. It appears to me he's just approaching him because he admires him and/or possibly wants to sort out the issues with Hibito (or confront him about the chair issue).
I just wanted to say he thinks outside of the box. Now, before you say that isn't true, that's exactly why he was (one of?) the first to realize the interview was fake. If Mutta found out, he'd be, again, showered with praise for his observation skills. But Mizoguchi gets the cold shoulder, despite achieving the same task, albeit him being in a different mindset? This mindset obviously has its pitfalls, as seen during the second selection exam, but useful in other situations. Anyway, I didn't mean to say much with that comment.
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Old 2012-10-06, 01:15   Link #591
Quadratic
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I just wanted to say he thinks outside of the box. Now, before you say that isn't true, that's exactly why he was (one of?) the first to realize the interview was fake. If Mutta found out, he'd be, again, showered with praise for his observation skills. But Mizoguchi gets the cold shoulder, despite achieving the same task, albeit him being in a different mindset? This mindset obviously has its pitfalls, as seen during the second selection exam, but useful in other situations. Anyway, I didn't mean to say much with that comment.
Ok, I think I understand the point you're making here.
I don't think the term thinking outside the box is correct here. I might be wrong, but that's still just considered an observation skill, though his skill has a different focus on things compared to Mutta. Mizoguchi has a much better situational awareness skill, whereas Mutta has a better behavioral awareness skill (not sure if those are correct terms, but I hope you get the idea).


I think understand the overall idea you're trying to convey: Sometimes, people's talent aren't fully appreciated, which is why we should be a bit more sympathetic to Mizoguchi's situation.
You are 100% correct, how we reward people's achievements are based on their mindsets and their actions (more emphasis on action). But this is, in fact, the harsh reality of the real world.
Anyone's who has ever tried applying for a job will, in some point of time, think 'how did this person get a job, but not me?!' or 'how does this person stand a chance against me?' (Mizoguchi, in fact, thought exactly that on Tomii & Teshima), and so on.
But a mix of arrogance and negative thoughts lead to negative actions.
I can acknowledge his intelligence, but I won't ever approve of his methods. This is probably where our opinions won't ever agree on.

Him getting through would almost be a reward for bad behavior (though in fact, this does happens in real life...). In my opinion, he thoroughly needs to eat a slice of humble pie.
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Old 2012-10-06, 02:31   Link #592
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Him getting through would almost be a reward for bad behavior (though in fact, this does happens in real life...). In my opinion, he thoroughly needs to eat a slice of humble pie.
Like I said in the beginning, the show has a track record of leading us to think some characters are worse than they really are. I thought Mizoguchi's determination to carry out his proposed selection method was exactly the point where they wanted to express he's actually not that bad, but I guess you guys aren't convinced or something. It's not that I even like Mizoguchi, but I'm betting on the premise that astronaut figures in this show simply aren't bad people.
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Old 2012-10-06, 03:42   Link #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
Like I said in the beginning, the show has a track record of leading us to think some characters are worse than they really are. I thought Mizoguchi's determination to carry out his proposed selection method was exactly the point where they wanted to express he's actually not that bad, but I guess you guys aren't convinced or something. It's not that I even like Mizoguchi, but I'm betting on the premise that astronaut figures in this show simply aren't bad people.
I just don't think there is anything deeper to get out of Mizoguchi. Outside of Kenji he got just as much focus as anyone from that Team while the test was going on. Sure, we haven't delved into his background heavily, but can say the same about plenty of characters. I'm not sure what can be shown that he isn't that bad, because I think he is that bad. He tried to recover the data, because he figured he was near the top and he wanted to win. Besides he's not dumb enough not to realize how badly it could go for him if that test turned into a popularity contest.

If they show some background that makes him more sympathetic that's fine. But I'll be just as satisfied watching him not make it past this point. Before he's ready to go into space that guy has to deal with his personality issues.

I'm just glad that we're almost to the next episode so we can see how this is going to turn out. Not sure how much longer we can go in circles about this guy.
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Old 2012-10-06, 23:41   Link #594
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Well, I like the tunes for the new OP and ED, but the actual animation in them wasn't all that interesting.

As for the episode, Mutta manages to say exactly the right thing yet again. For all his supposed bad luck, Mutta honesty seems to help him pull through. It appears to be a running thing with Uchuu Kyoudai... that being true to yourself and honest is what matters in the world. It really is a positive and optimistic view of the world, and not one you hear too often.

The whole Nanba family is quite fun and entertaining, I have to say. No cliffhanger this week, so I didn't have the usual sense of "I've gotta see the next episode right now!", but I'm looking forward to it all the same.
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Old 2012-10-07, 01:38   Link #595
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My god, didn't the people behind this episode realize the most critical thing was finding out whether Mizoguchi passed or not!? Now we have to keep this going for another week or more .

But as expected not a big deal with Mutta and Azuma. Sure, he gave him a test there, but that was all. Mutta almost fumbled it, but saved himself. True enough that being prepared to die sounds good, but better to just be honest. You are going up there knowing the risks, but are still going to do whatever it takes to stay alive.

Looks like we're setting up to reveal what was up with what they saw in the sky that night.

Enjoyed the OP. The first one especially was just plain bizarre, but this one was nice.
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Old 2012-10-07, 09:45   Link #596
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Mutta - Azuma conversation sure was awkward.
Seems like Mutta gave a good answer this time too.
Flashback to childhood days was pretty nice.
Pretty relaxing and kinda stretched episode.
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Old 2012-10-07, 10:10   Link #597
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I'm disappointed we were left completely in the dark about the result of the final exam. I noticed Moziguchi was absent from the parting scene. Not sure that means anything.

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Well, I like the tunes for the new OP and ED, but the actual animation in them wasn't all that interesting.
Agreed. The songs are good but the animation is very boring.

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Originally Posted by Sound of Azure View Post
As for the episode, Mutta manages to say exactly the right thing yet again. For all his supposed bad luck, Mutta honesty seems to help him pull through. It appears to be a running thing with Uchuu Kyoudai... that being true to yourself and honest is what matters in the world. It really is a positive and optimistic view of the world, and not one you hear too often.
You shouldn't forget that dishonesty has also helped him quite a bit as well. Lying through his teeth on American TV saved him earlier in the series. He probably wouldn't be there if I had told the truth.

What he did in this episode certainly sends a better message though.
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Old 2012-10-07, 10:23   Link #598
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This show takes a consistently positive view toward America, more than any anime I have watched. How about that landing scene with NASA jets in the heroic role usually assigned to the USAF? Always nice to let a bunch of sky jockeys strut their stuff in front of their families. With such an upbeat tone throughout this show, anti-Americanism would strike the wrong note, but Space Brothers goes out of its way to portray NASA and Americans in general as a bit weird but well-intentioned and warm-hearted. It's a far cry from George Bush and Condolezza Rice in the Oval Office conspiring with the forces of darkness in Blood+.

I presume Apo will accompany Mutta in all encounters with Serika from now on. Good boy, Apo!

I take it they will all return to Houston after Hibito's launch with Mutta taking over the house and Apo's care from Hibito. What a good excuse to ask Serika over to see his new home and let her get better acquainted with her new-found object of canine admiration. Maybe he can show off his barbecuing skiills, too. Food seems an especially effective route to Serika's heart.

I am a bit concerned about Mutta's housekeeping skills, though. Hibito seemed fairly obsessed with neatness; I'm not so sure about Mutta. Gotta keep the house neat if you want Serika to drop by. I assume Mom and Dad will go home after the launch, unless Mom thinks she needs to look after Mutta in a way she didn't feel Hibito needed. Dad is a hoot in his understated way.
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Old 2012-10-07, 15:27   Link #599
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Agreed that the the new and ed sound good, but don't look good. Mutta almost messed up but pulls himself through Azuma's test. Really how do they not announce the results? Hopefully we find out next week.
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Old 2012-10-08, 04:41   Link #600
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I'm disappointed we were left completely in the dark about the result of the final exam. I noticed Moziguchi was absent from the parting scene. Not sure that means anything.
I missed it in both anime and manga. (the translated manga is exactly at the same point than the anime, so I can't spoil myself) but you are right.

The Jaxa chairman is with only 5 candidates (plus the parting Nanba) : Nitta, Kenji, drunk wasabi mustache guy, Serika and the other female. The anime added the baldie from the JAXA staff whose name I forgot, but no other candidates.

The sad thing is that I know there are 2 missing candidates, but I can't tell who is missing beside Mizoguchi.
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