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Old 2012-10-06, 06:02   Link #4981
Deacon Blues
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And as much as people may not like it... Frozen Teardrop has started to creep into the Gundam Perfect Files :S
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「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And it’s also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2012-10-06, 11:18   Link #4982
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I'd be okay with that if it gives us full-body, unrestricted views of the new mobile suits. If they don't, fuck it.
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Old 2012-10-06, 13:03   Link #4983
Tendou Souji
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What was in perfect file? Any specific character or suit?
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Old 2012-10-06, 17:27   Link #4984
gordol
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What was in perfect file? Any specific character or suit?
A mention of the Virgo IV in the Virgo I/II profile
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Old 2012-10-07, 04:45   Link #4985
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They also refer to Ein and the Khushrenada family a la a character chart for Treize and what not.
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「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか?
戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。
戦っている人間には充実感がある。
そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」

So why do people fight, anyway?
Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight.
People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle.
And it’s also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.
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Old 2012-10-08, 01:02   Link #4986
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Hi there! I've been a lurker for a long time and finally decided to join and put in my two cents. First of all, thank you a million times over Deacon! I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate the time and effort that you have been putting into this. Your translations are very much appreciated.

Second, I have to admit that after all of these years I'm still very torn between elation over Gundam Wing being continued and utter disdain over some of what I've read. Though, it does appear to be slightly improving. At least, I hope so.
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Old 2012-10-08, 22:50   Link #4987
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Hi there! I've been a lurker for a long time and finally decided to join and put in my two cents. First of all, thank you a million times over Deacon! I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate the time and effort that you have been putting into this. Your translations are very much appreciated.

Second, I have to admit that after all of these years I'm still very torn between elation over Gundam Wing being continued and utter disdain over some of what I've read. Though, it does appear to be slightly improving. At least, I hope so.
Welcome! You will fit in nicely with this dysfunctional family!
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Old 2012-10-09, 12:57   Link #4988
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Welcome! You will fit in nicely with this dysfunctional family!
Thanks! I don't really have much to contribute since I know next to no Japanese and have no access to the mangas and novels, but I do enjoy the conversations that I've seen.
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Old 2012-10-15, 20:32   Link #4989
gundamgirl5174
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Love you guys

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Originally Posted by HeavensMachine View Post
Ok, before I go crazy. Hi wingzerosnuggles, I'm the fangirl who wrote you a message in YouTube just recently. I'll be writing back soon--not that you need to know that, but I just want to let you know that I intend on writing back, I really appreciated your long reply. Thank you.

I'm not supposed to be on the internet right now because I have exams and assignments due next week (the reason why I haven't written back yet to you wingzerosnuggles) BUT Gundam Wing just makes me lose all my rationale that instead of doing my dumb thesis due on Wednesday, I still chose to register here JUST to be able to write on this thread. Sorry that's my rant. Sorry sorry sorry.

BUT I'M JUST FUCKING DEVASTATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One moment I'm reading it's unsure whether Relena is alive or dead. Then the next thing I know Heero was revived just to kill her?!?!?!?!?!?! I'm sick of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sumisawa is retarded!!!!!!!!!!! How could you do this, you bastard!!!!!!!

I've read the summaries. To those who wrote it I love you with all my heart but can you go through more details on the summary. Ehhh?? Summary + more details = not really a summary eh?

FT is ruining my post Endless Waltz fantasy. And what the hell 00's AOTTB's ending!!!!! Marina an old lady and Setsuna going back to visit her yadda yadda... what the hell is this?!?!?!?!?!?! Is Sumisawa trying to do the same thing to Relena and Heero?!?!?!?!?! First these creators ruin SEED with SEED Destiny. Then they ruin (depending on your POV, I'm stating this depending on mine) 00 because of Season 2 and the weird ass movie and now they're doing it to Gundam Wing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I admit, there are times that I wish they'd resurrect Wing but don't ruin it!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd rather have other fans label it as "dead and gone" than "is back and gay ass"!! Sumisawa I hate you with every fibre of my being!!!!!!!!! Get your crap together and straighten this up!!!!!!!! Man if I had millions of dollars I'd buy Gundam Wing off of you people so that you don't ruin it!!!!!!!!

*sigh* Not that he's ever gonna read this. I just had to let it out. Sorry guys. I've been reading this thread for weeks and other stuff about FT and it's tortured me like hell. Now I just want to ventilate and let everything out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please don't say mean things to me. I'm not dissing anyone except Sumisawa. Thanks guys.

Thank you so much, HeavensMachine: you've expressed my feelings exactly! all my exasperation....I just hate Sumisawa now. I wanna say thank you to everyone here for expressing my feelings so well. I love you guys for posting all this stuff. glad to know there are others that feel like me.
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Old 2012-10-15, 22:27   Link #4990
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wish I could just click like! exactly what I was thinking!
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Old 2012-10-15, 22:39   Link #4991
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wish I could just click like! exactly what I was thinking!
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Old 2012-10-16, 05:17   Link #4992
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Well, uuuuhm. I have to say I do not agree with you last two in the sense that none of that is my biggest gripe with FT- mostly because I don't buy any of it, Relena isn't going to die, it's glaringly obvious.
I don't even know what you're complaining about, seeing how anything Sumizawa has done with her and Heero was ship them really hard ^^'
I'd actually ove it if he stuck to his guns and had the whole thing end tragically, because from a story perspective, it isn't very intriguing to add the whole plot surrounding them just as a plot device to ship them- very fan fiction-esque and even more awkward considering the rest of the cast is a xeroxed version of the previous cast. I don't get the point of maintaining only Relena and Heero as their original versions. Baffling, that.

Then again, I also really loved how 00 concluded the Marina/Setsuna thing, it made a lot more sense than sticking these two together (which would've made zero sense), and I actually enjoyed the Feldt/Setsuna development even though nothing came of it.
(The thing I'm really sad about is that she didn't end up with Shirin... ... ... nvm ) And that kind of ending would've suited Relena very well too, being "married to her country" (e.g. fully devoted to her work) instead of chasing after fruitless romance, imo. Kind of breaks the stupid stereotype that you need to end up with some dude to be fulfilled/badass/anything as a girl.

That said, holy cow, what the hell has been going on here? I go away for a bit and I come back to find merciless fairies and DDR combat.
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Old 2012-10-16, 12:32   Link #4993
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Heavens Machine just seemed upset that their fantasies were ruined. Their post had no substance but whining. Sounds like a terrible fanboy or fangirl. Seed Destiny being crap had nothing to do with Sunrise and everything to do with Fukuda and his wife. This person doesn't even know the details of Frozen Teardrop yet they are upset that their shipping fantasy is being "ruined". Classic fangirl. Didn't even care about the plot of 00 or Frozen Teardrop. Just the shipping. Everything that ruins their fantasy is bad.
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Old 2012-10-16, 13:37   Link #4994
Faerie
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Originally Posted by Tendou Souji View Post
Heavens Machine just seemed upset that their fantasies were ruined. Their post had no substance but whining. Sounds like a terrible fanboy or fangirl. Seed Destiny being crap had nothing to do with Sunrise and everything to do with Fukuda and his wife. This person doesn't even know the details of Frozen Teardrop yet they are upset that their shipping fantasy is being "ruined". Classic fangirl. Didn't even care about the plot of 00 or Frozen Teardrop. Just the shipping. Everything that ruins their fantasy is bad.
well, I don't think there's a need to be rude to them however much I may or may not agree with what you said

And to be fair, without following this thread or knowing exactly where to find translations, it's hard to know what's going on in FT, a lot of fans probably don't know exactly, or just heard something somewhere. There's a great deal of hearsay and uncertainty about what is going on outside of this forum.

I think a lot of people were upset about what happened to their ships in 2xHilde, 5xSally and have voiced that opinion somewhere in this thread, so they have the right to be upset about 1xR too- I am too, just for different reasons (I don't ship them). Imo, that's in theory as legitimate a complaint as any other.
Unless I missed something and they posted pages over pages of shippy whining, then scratch what I just said

Btw... I don't care about the plot of FT at this point either- does anyone?!
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Old 2012-10-16, 15:38   Link #4995
Tendou Souji
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well, I don't think there's a need to be rude to them however much I may or may not agree with what you said

And to be fair, without following this thread or knowing exactly where to find translations, it's hard to know what's going on in FT, a lot of fans probably don't know exactly, or just heard something somewhere. There's a great deal of hearsay and uncertainty about what is going on outside of this forum.

I think a lot of people were upset about what happened to their ships in 2xHilde, 5xSally and have voiced that opinion somewhere in this thread, so they have the right to be upset about 1xR too- I am too, just for different reasons (I don't ship them). Imo, that's in theory as legitimate a complaint as any other.
Unless I missed something and they posted pages over pages of shippy whining, then scratch what I just said

Btw... I don't care about the plot of FT at this point either- does anyone?!
Shipping has no place in intelligent conversation. Especially Wufei and Sally. They showed absolutely no romantic interest in each other. Wufei spent all of Wing mourning his wife. Even in this novel he continues to name his suits after her. Sally talked about Heero more than Wufei in the show. I really don't get their anger though since Kathy is probably Wufei's daughter anyway. The dialog when they are together and the way she acts around him shows something. He wont even look her in the eye for some reason. She was the only one who was able to get him to use the Zero System. But they wouldn't know that because they haven't read it. Duo and Hilde had a kid too. So what if they broke up? They'll probably get back together eventually since he actually being responsible for his son now and doing something with himself. If people get upset at the novel because it turned their ideal happy romances into something else they need to go read Shoujo instead of Shonen. No Gundam series has ever ended in happy romance outside of like G and X. MSG didn't really have romance for Amuro. Kamille didn't get happy romance. Judau got dumped eventually. Victory was about a child. G had Domon get a happy ending. Heero and Relena did not end up together. But honestly. Does anyone expect Heero Yuy of all people to settle down or tell someone he loves them? X was about Garrod being in love with Tifa. She was his whole motivation the whole show. Kira didn't get a happy romantic ending. Shinn didn't get a happy romantic ending. Setsuna didn't hook up with Feldt or Marina. Flit lost the girl he was in love with. Gundam is not about happy romance at all. It seems like people are into this for the wrong reasons. Shipping instead of politics and robots. It's like people that ship the guys together but obviously haven't seen the show. Heero and Duo was an extremely popular pairing yet they barely spent any time together in Wing. Heero spent the most time with either Quatre or Trowa. Trowa from 12 to like 25 and Quatre from like 25 to like 35. Duo and Heero hung out like once or twice in the series and then that spot in Endless Waltz. 3x4 is the only male on male pairing that had any chance of happening in the first place since they never really had girls in the show. The novel even made them not be married or have kids of any kind.

You shouldn't whine about something you haven't read, played, watched, witnessed etc. Secondhand information is often twisted each time it is passed along. Hilde being dead is still a common complaint whenever Frozen Teardrop is brought up even though she is alive.
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Old 2012-10-16, 15:39   Link #4996
IkuzeMinna
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Uh, guys, HeavensMachine's post is pretty much two years old. gundamgirl5174 is probably just going through the thread and commenting on things.

About the shipping; I don't get it. I have seen so many people who get turned off by a good story, simply because they don't like a pairing. Just look at what was going on with Harry Potter.
But why? Why does anyone care who ends up with whom when the story is awesome? Likewise, would a bad story be better if it had the "right" pairings? Heero and Relena could have twenty children for all I care, it still wouldn't make me like FT. When one only focuses on "romance" (and judging by fanfics that would mean senseless snogging to downright orgies) when the story itself is about anything but that, it makes me question whether that person is really a fan or just one of those folks who go "look how cuuute they are together!!!!1" all the time. Seriously, that's what fanfics are for.

I'm not trying to dis any displeased shippers. It's everyone's right to dislike something for whatever reason. But talking only about how 1x2 or 5xS has been sunk, when we have meowing mobile suits(/armors?) flying around and Duo and Wu Fei behaving like your standard anime cliché, is making one's criticism seem rather ...mindless.

EDIT:
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Originally Posted by Tendou Souji View Post
3x4 is the only male on male pairing that had any chance of happening in the first place since they never really had girls in the show. The novel even made them not be married or have kids of any kind.
What about Dorothy and Catherine? As tacked on as that thing between Quatre and Dorothy was, they did have a far longer and in-depth conversation than Relena and Heero ever had... And yes, everyone knows Catherine is Trowa's older sister. But it amazes me how people completely ignore that while Episode Zero revealed that, it also introduced Middie Une as a highly obvious romantic substitute. Just like Mei Lan.

By the way, was it said that Trowa had no offspring? I know it was stated for Quatre (at least that he wasn't married). 'Cause, you know, I'm still trying to figure out where Phobos came from.

Last edited by IkuzeMinna; 2012-10-16 at 16:00.
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Old 2012-10-16, 17:19   Link #4997
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Originally Posted by Tendou Souji View Post
No Gundam series has ever ended in happy romance outside of like G and X. MSG didn't really have romance for Amuro. Kamille didn't get happy romance. Judau got dumped eventually. Victory was about a child. G had Domon get a happy ending. Heero and Relena did not end up together. But honestly. Does anyone expect Heero Yuy of all people to settle down or tell someone he loves them? X was about Garrod being in love with Tifa. She was his whole motivation the whole show. Kira didn't get a happy romantic ending. Shinn didn't get a happy romantic ending. Setsuna didn't hook up with Feldt or Marina. Flit lost the girl he was in love with. Gundam is not about happy romance at all. It seems like people are into this for the wrong reasons. Shipping instead of politics and robots. It's like people that ship the guys together but obviously haven't seen the show.
I have to admit that what first got me to pay attention to Gundam Wing was the Heero and Relena ship. But hey, I was also in middle school so I have a good excuse!

These days the reason that I still keep watching Gundam is for the politics and mecha. Though, the pattern of failed relationships is somewhat depressing. But how realistic would that really be if a bunch of kids got thrown into a horrible war and in the end everything ended up rosy?
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Old 2012-10-16, 17:23   Link #4998
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I never saw Dorothy and Quatre as romantic. Having conversations doesn't mean you are interested in someone romantically. We can't ignore the fact that the girl tried to kill him and as far as we know they never interacted again after that. Quatre is kind of tricky when it comes to romance. He never displays any towards any other character. I wouldn't mind if Dorothy and Quatre was expanded on but it would still feel forced. I think people shipped them because they wanted a dominatrix type thing.

The thing with Phobos is that Trowa and Catherine are always together. They moved to Mars together, they live together, they lived together on Earth and everything. They lost their whole family when they were young and only have each other. If Phobos was Trowa's kid I doubt they would keep that in the dark. Catherine would want him to be accepted into the family. Middie Une randomly coming back into Trowa's life would be insanely stupid. She almost got him killed and then disappeared. She actually reminds me of Miharu from MSG. I don't think he would randomly shack up with her if she just showed up. He honestly didn't seem interested in romance with anyone anyway. So anyone shipping Trowa with anyone is kind of missing the point of his character.
Those 2 are hard to read. We see Heero, Duo and Wufei with girls they love but not those 2.
I honestly feel that Phobos is a clone of Trowa.Trowa was in OZ for a bit so they could have had DNA.

On another note I'm starting to feel that Wing Zero may show up as an enemy in the future. The cockpit was in decent enough shape for Heero to escape without any real injuries so if they didn't dispose of it the suit could have been salvaged. We saw the other 4 destroyed but not the remains of Zero. Unless Snow White uses the Zero System in Zero it could show up later just like Epyon has shown up.
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Old 2012-10-16, 17:32   Link #4999
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Well, uuuuhm. I have to say I do not agree with you last two in the sense that none of that is my biggest gripe with FT- mostly because I don't buy any of it, Relena isn't going to die, it's glaringly obvious.
I don't even know what you're complaining about, seeing how anything Sumizawa has done with her and Heero was ship them really hard ^^'
I'd actually ove it if he stuck to his guns and had the whole thing end tragically, because from a story perspective, it isn't very intriguing to add the whole plot surrounding them just as a plot device to ship them- very fan fiction-esque and even more awkward considering the rest of the cast is a xeroxed version of the previous cast. I don't get the point of maintaining only Relena and Heero as their original versions. Baffling, that.

Then again, I also really loved how 00 concluded the Marina/Setsuna thing, it made a lot more sense than sticking these two together (which would've made zero sense), and I actually enjoyed the Feldt/Setsuna development even though nothing came of it.
(The thing I'm really sad about is that she didn't end up with Shirin... ... ... nvm ) And that kind of ending would've suited Relena very well too, being "married to her country" (e.g. fully devoted to her work) instead of chasing after fruitless romance, imo. Kind of breaks the stupid stereotype that you need to end up with some dude to be fulfilled/badass/anything as a girl.

That said, holy cow, what the hell has been going on here? I go away for a bit and I come back to find merciless fairies and DDR combat.
At first I thought that Setsuna and Marina would be kind of like Heero and Relena 2.0, but I'm glad to see that 00 managed to avoid that. Not that I'm against anyone who ships them. I can totally understand why they do. And while I was disappointed at the way that Setsuna and Feldt turned out the truth is that pairing them together would have actually gone against Setsuna's character. Even if he was developing feelings for her he emotionally and mentally wasn't in a place where he could be in a romantic relationship.

Well, now that I've gone off topic I think it's time for me to get back on track. SkullFaerie brings up a very good point. Naturally they're not going to kill Relena, but the thought of it does have a bit of a Shakespearian flair. Not that I'm suggesting that they do, just that it would be something different instead of what I've currently been reading.

*shrugs*

Your milage will vary.
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Old 2012-10-16, 17:37   Link #5000
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Shipping has no place in intelligent conversation. Especially Wufei and Sally. (snip)

You shouldn't whine about something you haven't read, played, watched, witnessed etc. Secondhand information is often twisted each time it is passed along. Hilde being dead is still a common complaint whenever Frozen Teardrop is brought up even though she is alive.
I honestly couldn't care less for Sally and Wufei- but some people ship them. Why shouldn't they? Because you don't like it? Because you don't think it's canon? Well, if the Kathy theory turns out correct, then it would suddenly be canon though... whether we like it or not. And I fundamentally disagree that shipping concerns cannot be part of intelligent conversation where they are relevant to plot or character progression. Now, fangirling, is a totally different thing. Hence why I say fangirling=/ shipping

A lot of people on here ship 1xR- I personally do not as I've said previously, but that doesn't mean other people don't have every right to.
Honestly, the only ship I seriously support (because it is and always was canon) is 6x9 (and in my opinion they deserve a good end and I would be pissed if some 3rd class sequel like FT ruined it. Not necessarily because I'd object to a bad end, but to my favourite characters being sacrificed in a really really stupid novel. So I can totally understand if Sally fans are unhappy, or Hilde fans were unhappy when we thought she was dead) - I couldn't care less about the rest, ship-wise. I can't for the life of me see Heero and Relena together, ever, and I think it would completely ruin her character if they were. Same with Marina.
I lived in fear or a kitschy SetsunaxMarina end, and it not happening made 00 for me. Which, btw, had a happy romance in AllexMarie, so your statement isn't really correct.. So did, say, Turn A and there are other examples. Kira and Shinn included, technically. Rare they might be, but good ends for pairings to exist in Gundam.

To me, ships aren't about how cute they are but how much sense they make for character development and plot.
Hence I've got a problem with a lot of non canon ships and fangirling about it, but none with intelligent conversation about canon...


I agree with you that you can't complain about things you haven't seen/read, and I myself never do so (with the sole exception of 50 Shades, I just couldn't, I'm sorry, but there is no way. I read excerpts. That will have to do. Urgh)- that's difficult to apply to japanese novels though. Yes, we get summaries (and eventually translations) here thanks to Deacon Blues, but they are not exactly accessible- arguably not a whole lot of people know how to read the novel. It's unavoidable that a lot of information will be based on hearsay or word of mouth. Annoying, but unavoidable.

That said, all I did was try to reply to gundamgirl in an intelligent manner, regardless of whether she's ship-obsessed or not (after all I can't/shouldn't infer from one post if all she cares about is some pairing). Doesn't mean I support that kind of thing, so I'm not sure how I ended up defending shippers here xD

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About the shipping; I don't get it. I have seen so many people who get turned off by a good story, simply because they don't like a pairing. Just look at what was going on with Harry Potter.
Yeah, I never understood that, if the story was good, and the pairing made sense in context. Harry Potter's ships arguably all make sense (with Ginny making a wee bit less sense)
A bad example would be Aquarion Evol, where the total mess up with its pairings contributed largely to how crappy the show turned out. Or, to some extend Gundam Seed with what they did to Fllay and why.
In the context of GW though... I don't see it. Pairings shouldn't really be an issue...

Quote:
Likewise, would a bad story be better if it had the "right" pairings? Heero and Relena could have twenty children for all I care, it still wouldn't make me like FT. .
In the case of FT, honestly, I don't think anything could ever save it Now, if Quatre and Dorothy had 20 clinically insane babies on the other hand... I kid, I kid.

Quote:
I'm not trying to dis any displeased shippers. It's everyone's right to dislike something for whatever reason. But talking only about how 1x2 or 5xS has been sunk, when we have meowing mobile suits(/armors?) flying around and Duo and Wu Fei behaving like your standard anime cliché, is making one's criticism seem rather ...mindless.
this, yes.
merciless fairies.
I had a bad nightmare.

Quote:
By the way, was it said that Trowa had no offspring? I know it was stated for Quatre (at least that he wasn't married). 'Cause, you know, I'm still trying to figure out where Phobos came from.
I always had a bit of a soft spot for that Quatre Dorothy thing... because of what you said. And because he's bananas, she's bananas, it entertains.
As for Phobos.. well. He. Oh, for all we know he's probably Trowa's legitimate father who was frozen.
There were teardrops.
I don't know.
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