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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 14
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 101 46.12%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 57 26.03%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 17 7.76%
7 out of 10 : Good... 16 7.31%
6 out of 10 : Average... 10 4.57%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.46%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 5 2.28%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 3 1.37%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.46%
1 out of 10 : Tortuous... 8 3.65%
Voters: 219. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-10-08, 04:02   Link #361
relentlessflame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewthelord View Post
the hospital scene is a poetic license. And a great one.
Yeah, basically I think it was poetic license as well. The symbolism of him finding the strength to grab onto the IV and slowly push forward, all alone, with only one thing on his mind was, I think, what they were going for there. It's not necessarily realistic or accurate, but on a poetic level I thought it was pretty powerful.

But it's not like it's uncommon for there to be complaints whenever this sort of poetic license is used. Heck, I jokingly had one as well re: Episode 12. But they're basically a staple of almost all movies/TV shows/anime that have elements that look like they should be realistic. (This is why sometimes it's easier if your setting is even more fantastical, because then people are less likely to compare it to things they know in real life. )
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Old 2012-10-08, 05:15   Link #362
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Why does the goodbye scene between kirito and asuna seem like forever?

They never mentioned anything about exchanging phone numbers or email?
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Old 2012-10-08, 05:17   Link #363
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Originally Posted by MasterVampire View Post
They never mentioned anything about exchanging phone numbers or email?
Uh, well, they thought they were going to die, so it's not like it would have done them much good.

Before that point, there wasn't much need, because there's no way to use it until you get out anyway.
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Old 2012-10-08, 05:22   Link #364
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Originally Posted by MasterVampire View Post
Why does the goodbye scene between kirito and asuna seem like forever?

They never mentioned anything about exchanging phone numbers or email?
I'm just wondering what it was like for the 4k previous people waiting on deaths door.

Imagine being a member of a party where it could have been someone's fault.

Imagine if Kayaba was really Simon Cowell in disguise, I would guess he would have already broadcast the footage and called it XMoments or something like that!
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Old 2012-10-08, 05:24   Link #365
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Well, I think that even mentioning the name will do Kirito (or this case, Kazuto) good simply because it will be easier to find Asuna now that he knows her name. Just go to whoever was supervising the entire incident (if there is) and inquire from that guy.
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Old 2012-10-08, 06:56   Link #366
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My reaction by the minutes:
  • Ugh they cut short the epic skull monster battle. Damn budget.
  • Le despair. How are they gonna resolve this?
  • Immortal Object!? Heathcliff's trick is about to be revealed! I'm so interested.
  • ...
  • .....!!
  • KAYABAAAAAA!!!
  • ...
  • Hey, this is getting uncomfortably farewell death scene-y.
  • "Change into Immortal Object?" Oh right Engrish.
  • Great battle is great. Having skull battle cut short is forgiven.
  • Oh noes! Kirito accidentally activated combo's! Pinchi!
  • ASUNAAAAAAA!!!
  • Aw hell no, they just killed both main characters. It can't be for real. What's the twist?
  • They really are going to end the game!? THAT WAS THE FINAL EPISODE!? I THOUGHT IT WAS- Oh, I'll just wait for the twist.
  • *half-stunned, moved, a bit teary-eyed, still waiting for the not-the-end twist*
  • Why are they agreeing with Kayaba's castle in the sky statement?
  • Oh, he's actually called Kazuto. Too bad bro4life Klein will never get to know that. T_T
  • By the way, they're really gonna die...?
  • Hospital! I knew it!
  • "Asuna..."
  • Dramatic walking into the sunlight was dramatic. Cliché or not, it was beautiful.

Best episode ever. Now I'm really curious how they're gonna continue with this.

By the way, are the dead people actually really brain dead like Kayaba confirmed, and Kirito/Asuna just got lucky with the final stretch? No more Sachi?

Oh yeah, and Kirito better not forget his helmet. Your loli-daughter's in there man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronelm2000
Well, I think that even mentioning the name will do Kirito (or this case, Kazuto) good simply because it will be easier to find Asuna now that he knows her name. Just go to whoever was supervising the entire incident (if there is) and inquire from that guy.
And if they won't tell, all he has to do is start a SAO Survivors Anonymous forum online and post something like, "hey guyz im Kirito, the dude who saved ur asses. can u help me find Asuna? thx" and then just ask anyone who claim to be Asuna a few "only she knows it" identification questions. Et voilà the lovers reunited.

Plenty of alternatives.
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Old 2012-10-08, 07:07   Link #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
And if they won't tell, all he has to do is start a SAO Survivors Anonymous forum online and post something like, "hey guyz im Kirito, the dude who saved ur asses. can u help me find Asuna? thx" and then just ask anyone who claim to be Asuna a few "only she knows it" identification questions. Et voilà the lovers reunited.

Plenty of alternatives.
Funny, if it was that easy for them to reunite, then what will 11 episodes do for SAO? Portray the entire timeline in the view of the outside world? Do a Scilica POV of the thing? (Hey, I'm just throwing ideas at the table)

Non-serious mode aside,
Quote:
Originally Posted by (lazy to write your name)
Why are they agreeing with Kayaba's castle in the sky statement?
IMO, I would have stayed in that world forever, especially with the thought of "aww sh** I skipped 2 years of school" thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by (lazy to write your name)
KAYABAAAAAA!!!
Hmm, reminds me Steins;Gate. Again. and again.
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Old 2012-10-08, 07:13   Link #368
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
To further this, nurses are trained to move the bodies of such victims, of people who are unconscious or incapable of movement on their own to prevent bedsores and muscle atrophy from reaching the point where it permanently disables movement. Naturally, the hospitalized SAO players would also undergo this treatment while in the hospitals, so Kirito would retain some mobility upon awakening from the game.
That alone is absolutely not sufficient. Nurse care for such kind of patients are, at the very best, effective against bedsores, assuming specific beds are also provided etc, to which is the norm (albeit not almighty effective, especially past the 1-2 months mark).
Even if the muscles are stimulated, muscle atrophy will gradually happen sooner or later, since it will not substitute perfectly normal human activity, not to mention that parenteral nutrition is really not going to supplement indefinitely protein needs for such long period of time, and it will also lead to various complication due to the gastric tract and all.

It is a good thing they have shown Kazuto's apparent loss of weight and muscle, but past the muscle atrophy, he himself didn't move on his own for 2 damn years, which would require rehabilitation of several weeks or even months before he can even walk like that. I would be already impressed if he could CRAWL in such state, so my suspension of disbelief literally shattered with that scene.



Frankly, this episode could deliver a noticeable emotional build up, but it is noticeable how evident it is to cover few things that are brushed off by the writing: like other members, color me absolutely not convinced by Asuna's meat shield scene and Kazuto ability to act despite his HP bar is already depleted.
Really, the game is just a software that use brainwaves as input method, but it is simply similar to what we usually do with a pad. That is to say: I have no reason to believe "will" have any impact in such cold and calculating system (unlike Matrix), and absolutely nothing of such kind has been hinted before. Therefore, having Kayaba surprised by this outcome does absolutely not make that scene any legit: there was absolutely no logical reason or hints for that to happen, save the cliche "sacrifice" you could usually have.

Likewise, I don't really mind the "10 second timegap", which was hinted by the resurrection item, but at least, I would have appreciated if the studio made it consistent, since we have way too often variable "pixel shattering" sequence duration in the whole show. It is just again a convenient way to show "how some characters are more worthy to have their last words, than others", which breaks again the consistency of the show.

Another nitpicking point is that I would have liked a quick comment that how Kirito has no healing items anymore before engaging Kayaba, as if he still had some, it is just silly to see him rushing with barely half his hp.

At least, the animation was above average compared to other episodes, which is a relief considering it is an important turning point in the series.
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Old 2012-10-08, 07:29   Link #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Really, the game is just a software that use brainwaves as input method, but it is simply similar to what we usually do with a pad. That is to say: I have no reason to believe "will" have any impact in such cold and calculating system (unlike Matrix), and absolutely nothing of such kind has been hinted before. Therefore, having Kayaba surprised by this outcome does absolutely not make that scene any legit: there was absolutely no logical reason or hints for that to happen, save the cliche "sacrifice" you could usually have.
Actually, there has already been hints that will has something else in SAO entirely:
  • Diabel's ability to stave off "death" for a longer moment than others
  • Griselda's Ghost
  • Kirito can move even when paralzyed (druing Cradil's moment)
  • Yui's entire existence (Note: she was given emotions)
  • Asuna's blantant dashing over-limiting the AGI limits of SAO (she brushed it as "power of love")
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Another nitpicking point is that I would have liked a quick comment that how Kirito has no healing items anymore before engaging Kayaba, as if he still had some, it is just silly to see him rushing with barely half his hp.
Kayaba must have set it to equate Kirito's HP .. and it was meant to be a one-hit duel... because otherwise the fight wouldn't end.

-- Non serious corner... even though it's not (a corner) --
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I would be already impressed if he could CRAWL in such state, so my suspension of disbelief literally shattered with that scene
Oh, why... why did you remind me of that SAO meme....
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Old 2012-10-08, 07:32   Link #370
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If we can choose to believe they can do non-direct stimulus and reading of the nervous system to the point of being able to simulate reality, then we can also believe they managed to develop drugs and technology that counteract atrophy.
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Old 2012-10-08, 07:39   Link #371
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Originally Posted by ronelm2000 View Post
Actually, there has already been hints that will has something else in SAO entirely:
  • Diabel's ability to stave off "death" for a longer moment than others
  • Griselda's Ghost
  • Kirito can move even when paralzyed (druing Cradil's moment)
  • Yui's entire existence (Note: she was given emotions)
  • Asuna's blantant dashing over-limiting the AGI limits of SAO (she brushed it as "power of love")
-Diabel portion was basically similar to Kirito's "mortem" period.
-Kirito's ability to move a bit can be understood since he didn't drink a full bottle of that water, and even Kuradeel mentioned the effect will wear off at some point. It is completely different here as Kayaba used a admin privilege to force a paralysis state on everyone except Kirito.
-Yui is an AI, to which I can remotely understand that fake emotions can be engineered at some point in the future, it doesn't collerate with "will bending the rules of a game".
-Asuna's dashing isn't "that" surprising or game breaking, unless the anime failed to show/describe it.

Griselda ghost is a point I also got a gripe with, and I guess it is just your cliche used there like any regular series.
Quote:
Kayaba must have set it to equate Kirito's HP .. and it was meant to be a one-hit duel... because otherwise the fight wouldn't end.
Then the anime failed again to describe correctly this part, since it is evident that regular HP were taken in account, otherwise if only the first hit count, Kayaba HP wouldn't even flinch during Kirito's barrage of strikes against his shield, which it did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakshasa View Post
If we can choose to believe they can do non-direct stimulus and reading of the nervous system to the point of being able to simulate reality, then we can also believe they managed to develop drugs and technology that counteract atrophy.
I'm not going to pretend I know neurology enough to stand this point, but brain stimulation is "simple" as nerve stimulation is dependant of a single factor, whereas muscle AND skeletal atrophy are dependant of both activity and nutrition, to which is quite hard to replicate, no matter the technology used (even now, people would rather have nurses doing the muscle flexing routine than electrodes, as a non perfect stimulation might lead to "funny" muscle contractions).
And even if the atrophy is limited, rehabilitation is a non skippable step that would require such a long time that having someone like Kazuto walking like that is just plain impossible.
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Old 2012-10-08, 07:57   Link #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
-Yui is an AI, to which I can remotely understand that fake emotions can be engineered at some point in the future, it doesn't collerate with "will bending the rules of a game".
-Asuna's dashing isn't "that" surprising or game breaking, unless the anime failed to show/describe it.
I think you're partially undermining the concept of a sub-program not following a main program. That DOES NOT happen in computers. Computing is expected to be followed -- which means, in order for Yui to actually "rebel" against the orders of Cardinal, she'd have to have will, hence Asuna's words: "You really do have intelligence, don't you?" and her own words, "I don't understand, but I really wanted to meet you..." Thus, her will overrides the system.

- Okay, compute it like this:
They walk through the 55th floor(?) fields (or dungeon I forgot), until they had to rest due to stamina. Consider how far they've walk -- probably 5 kilometers worth. Asuna was able to dash from HQ until there in a short time..? I don't think anyone... not even Heathcliff ... can do that.

On the novels it's pretty blantant, so I guess we should blame A-1 then?
Spoiler for Vol 1 -- cut out detail from (too lazy to write Ep 10 or so title) - see above:
Short Edit: I just realized, I actually arbitrarily assigned 5 km... and it happens to be right on the novels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Then the anime failed again to describe correctly this part, since it is evident that regular HP were taken in account, otherwise if only the first hit count, Kayaba HP wouldn't even flinch during Kirito's barrage of strikes against his shield, which it did.
IMO, it's like the previous battle in the Arena (in ep 10 or so). Direct hits will kill you.
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Old 2012-10-08, 08:08   Link #373
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Originally Posted by ronelm2000 View Post
I think you're partially undermining the concept of a sub-program not following a main program. That DOES NOT happen in computers. Computing is expected to be followed --
I dunno about that, in my experience too many times a computer or program breaks for absolutely no reason and only after putting in the boot a few times does it mysteriously start working again

Anyway we are in the realms of AI which we still can't do in RL yet, and in anime land GITS is kinda a norm
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Old 2012-10-08, 08:18   Link #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronelm2000 View Post
I think you're partially undermining the concept of a sub-program not following a main program. That DOES NOT happen in computers.
A program to begin with has a set of priority and tasks (in a very gross generalization), but a real artificial intelligence would not respond like a normal program: surely some directive won't be possibily breached by the said AI, but everything else is left to their discretion.
Again, the author was shown a bit fuzzy with his explanations and had to pull a drama over a rogue AI, and I suspect it was something not planned until after SAO arc was done since it was introduced in a short story, according to LN readers. It is even more noticeable when we have -physical in-game- GM interface which shouldn't even happen to begin with.
Quote:
Computing is expected to be followed -- which means, in order for Yui to actually "rebel" against the orders of Cardinal, she'd have to have will, hence Asuna's words: "You really do have intelligence, don't you?" and her own words, "I don't understand, but I really wanted to meet you..." Thus, her will overrides the system.
That has nothing to do with any "will" whatsoever, but the liberty of a given AI, and simply speaking, the author went too nebulous in his explanations to be taken seriously.
Quote:
On the novels it's pretty blantant, so I guess we should blame A-1 then?
Failure from the anime again.
Quote:
IMO, it's like the previous battle in the Arena (in ep 10 or so). Direct hits will kill you.
No, Kirito stated clearly that he will "kill him", and there was -no- duel mode involved: there was no countdown, no UI statement, nothing.
They were basically attacking each other and aiming for the kill, whereas in the arena, it was the duel system, with the 50%hp or clean hit victory condition.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-10-08 at 08:35.
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Old 2012-10-08, 08:24   Link #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
No, Kirito stated clearly that he will "kill him", and there was -no- duel mode involved: there was no countdown, no UI statement, nothing.
They were basically attacking each other and aiming for the kill, whereas in the arena, it was the duel system, with the 50%hp or clean hit victory condition.
Although I know exactly what you're going to say about this, I'm still going to say it..

Spoilers
Spoiler for Detail left out from the anime that was present in the novels (episode 14)
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Old 2012-10-08, 08:33   Link #376
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I did realize that Kayaba got his HP reduced (thinking it was due to lifting his immortal status), but with the absolute absence of explanations from him or numerical value that literally disappeared ever since episode 3-4 (can't remember), it is absolutely impossible to conclude with the anime alone than a single hit would be game over for any of them, especially that HP bar should never be counted by the %/appearance but by their current/MAX respective value, especially with a game that involve obvious difference in term of stats.

Oh well, another "compliment" for the studio.
Side note: it makes Kuradeel stabs even weaker than it already look
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Old 2012-10-08, 08:39   Link #377
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
I dunno about that, in my experience too many times a computer or program breaks for absolutely no reason and only after putting in the boot a few times does it mysteriously start working again

Anyway we are in the realms of AI which we still can't do in RL yet, and in anime land GITS is kinda a norm
You don't know how much those actually have a valid reason behind it. From corrosive rusting of certain parts of the computer, to programmer mistakes in programs themselves that change what a computer does. In my experience as a programmer, everything is as is programmed, unlike a true AI like Yui who can actually be independent on the main program.
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
A program to begin with has a set of priority and tasks (in a very gross generalization), but a real artificial intelligence would not respond like a normal program: surely some directive won't be possibily breached by the said AI, but everything else is left to their discretion.
But Yui DID breach an important directive. Yui was specifically directed to NOT interact with humans. But without her even understanding it, she had gone close to Asuna and Kirito. That is the essence of will. It might be "rebellion" on a direct command... but "will" is "will". IMO, this is the author's theme at work -- does an AI have real will?
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That has nothing to do with any "will" whatsoever, but the liberty of a given AI, and simply speaking, the author went too nebulous in his explanations to be taken seriously. To begin with.
Well, I admit that the author was too nebulous, but was it really non-serious? For starters, why was an explanation needed? Why did Yui say that her emotions are fake? Are they REALLY fake? Then, how is Yui different from us? What makes "will"? Does "will" have to come from a human? I think this is the very reason the author went with this SS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Failure from the anime again.
In the end, I have to agree. But still, isn't the "dashing after the fodder guy dies" from HQ to what could easily be too far implicit enough?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
No, Kirito stated clearly that he will "kill him", and there was -no- duel mode involved: there was no countdown, no UI statement, nothing.
They were basically attacking each other and aiming for the kill, whereas in the arena, it was the duel system, with the 50%hp or clean hit victory condition.
That's why I said ~almost~. If you actually noticed, both of them had around 50% HP. One clean hit was enough to kill either player.

... but the original "rant" was...
Quote:
Another nitpicking point is that I would have liked a quick comment that how Kirito has no healing items anymore before engaging Kayaba, as if he still had some, it is just silly to see him rushing with barely half his hp.
Judging from their faces and Kirito's "let's finish this", he was willing to bet his life for that chance. And Kayaba opted the same. You can say it was (implicitly) implied that they agreed inherently to the current situation.

EDIT: ninja'd by someone who quoted the LN, which I wanted to avoid.
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Old 2012-10-08, 10:07   Link #378
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Lol...

I think this episode had the biggest asspull/deus ex machina since Guilty Crown. It puts that "Yui" episode to shame really on that scale. At this point, it's just hilarious rather than infuriating but unlike GC at least Kirito and Asuna are more bearable than Shu and Inori as characters. The plot and the directions it takes however, are just as bad as GC if not worse.

At this point I'm done with this series. 2 collosal asspulls within 3 episodes of each other is way too much for me for a series that already had questionable directions to begin with (aside from its opening 2 episodes) To those enjoy it and its source, good luck and have fun. I don't want to suffer through a "second Guilty Crown" if possible
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Old 2012-10-08, 10:39   Link #379
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While I still find the "deus ex machina" thing in this episode debatable, I do not recall any deus ex machina from the Yui episodes. You probably mean the part where she pulled out the GM sword. Which was explicitly stated to be an item granted by her admin rights. To call something a Deus Ex Machina, it has to come from nowhere with little explanation. Which is why I call the Deus Ex Machina status of the current issue "debatable" since things weren't fully explained.


Anyway, and this is an honest question. Is it really that far fetched of a theory that Kayaba intentionally left some things "open" to be influenced by "willpower" to allow himself to be surprised by the unexpected? I mean, in the end it's still just brain activity which can be measured.
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Old 2012-10-08, 10:49   Link #380
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Anyway, and this is an honest question. Is it really that far fetched of a theory that Kayaba intentionally left some things "open" to be influenced by "willpower" to allow himself to be surprised by the unexpected? I mean, in the end it's still just brain activity which can be measured.
If you consider...
Spoiler for The Anime:

Spoiler for The LN:

Spoiler for AW:
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