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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 14
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 102 45.95%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 57 25.68%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 19 8.56%
7 out of 10 : Good... 16 7.21%
6 out of 10 : Average... 10 4.50%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.45%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 5 2.25%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 3 1.35%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.45%
1 out of 10 : Tortuous... 8 3.60%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-10-09, 09:10   Link #421
Metaneo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Except, Gurren Lagann actually has Spiral Powers in the foundation of its mythos.

No such supernatural powers have been hinted in this setup, thus feeling very awkward and unexpected.
There has been no suggestion of boundaries of science being broken, or a Neo-like natural manupilation of its environment.
You can't compare the two.
I didnt compare the two at all, I simply said I'm a fan of will power overcoming all, and I used TTGL as an example of willpower. I know the two have very little in common.
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Old 2012-10-09, 09:26   Link #422
ronelm2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
This was the most anti-climactic ending to a story ever. I have mixed feelings about this show, now.

It's high on drama, particularly the melodrama. It's a character driven science fiction/cyberpunk action/suspense anime. And the end to this arc had very little action and suspense. We got the Matrix collapsing and the mad scientist but what was missing?

Heathcliff... wtf? A villain I didn't give a crap about. We hardly knew him as Heathcliff. The betrayal would have worked better if we had some episodes where we learn about how much he meant to his legion and how he was a leader in the game world.

Asuna and Kirito lovey dovey on the time. We get some filler about side characters. And then all of a sudden there is a killer boss and Heathcliff's real identity is uncovered. Heathcliff gives Kirito a chance to end the whole charade then and he does. Boom... game over, user wins!

I guess it would sort of makes sense, Kayaba is a mad scientist who wanted to create an artificial but organic feeling world. He would have been cool with game ending abruptly. The moral of the first arc... "You hardly know who people really are."
I most certainly would incline to agree with you on the Adaption, since IMO, the entire thing could have easily been extended to 22 - 24 episodes and no one will complain. (like how Heathcliff was supposed to be in Inner Area Incident but nooo...... they just slammed everything into 2 episodes when it could easily be 3.).

However, take note that the genre is NOT shonen, but seinen. That means one thing: this is not action oriented. This was supposed to focus more on the AI/World/State/KiritoxAsuna side of things, not how the fight with the Skullreaper will go for say... an entire episode.

Well... Heathcliff, let's just say he's one hell of a schemer -- it seems that from the starting design up to the excecution he's got it all planned out -- I wouldn't be so surprised if Heathcliff actually initially designed the game to gather and try to interpret "image" thoughts. Heck the WMG in the TvTropes of SAO is very interesting and presents that very point, you should check it out (if you don't mind the spoilers of course...)
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Old 2012-10-09, 09:44   Link #423
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Originally Posted by ronelm2000 View Post
However, take note that the genre is NOT shonen, but seinen. That means one thing: this is not action oriented.
I'm just nitpicking and this is off-topic, but light novels don't have such specific demographic as manga. SAO is published under a male-oriented label, but manga demographic terms like shounen or seinen don't necessarily fit light novel all that well.

On a side note, shounen manga doesn't necessarily have to be action oriented. There are many shounen manga series that focus on things other than fighting.
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Old 2012-10-09, 09:54   Link #424
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Anyway, guys, your argument is just going around in circles, so let's just agree to disagree and move on.

In the end, there are things in the story that could have been developed differently to make things a bit more clear and to give more foreshadowing/hints, and this would have alleviated some of the concerns that some people have. But, by the same token, I think many people are still watching anyway because the story manages to be reasonably entertaining, and they don't weigh whatever flaws there are as heavily in their own mind. So in the end we don't need to get so hung up on it.

I think almost all stories have flaws. The issue is really how much those flaws impact your own enjoyment.
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:


I feel I'm nowhere near close to say wanting to drop it, but there is an element of disappointment that I just can't shake, and this is coming from somebody that disregarded all hype and promises made by LN fans going in. So anyway if I were to give this first cour a rating out of 10 it would probably be something like a 6.5. A little better than average, but a lot of little things that imo easily addressable issues that hold it back when it could have easily been much greater, similar to how I felt about the latest Gundam show actually.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:47. Reason: added spoiler tags for comparison
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Old 2012-10-09, 10:03   Link #425
Dengar
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
I'm in 100% agreement with relentless there.
It's evident that this show is littered with flaws, it's just not that big of a deal enough to not enjoy this MMO porno.
Can you at least accept that there are people who feel that this show isn't really that littered with flaws? And that they are not wrong? And neither are you?
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Old 2012-10-09, 10:10   Link #426
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:47. Reason: Added spoiler tags for comparison
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Old 2012-10-09, 10:23   Link #427
mechalord
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I'm just nitpicking and this is off-topic, but light novels don't have such specific demographic as manga. SAO is published under a male-oriented label, but manga demographic terms like shounen or seinen don't necessarily fit light novel all that well.

On a side note, shounen manga doesn't necessarily have to be action oriented. There are many shounen manga series that focus on things other than fighting.

Let's not forget seinen manga/anime can have a good amount of action and suspense in it...

- Darker than Black
- Cowboy Bebop
- Trigun
- Black Lagoon
- Jormungand
- Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
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Old 2012-10-09, 10:24   Link #428
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
A little better than average, but a lot of little things that imo easily addressable issues that hold it back when it could have easily been much greater, similar to how I felt about the latest Gundam show actually.
I somewhat agree with this. I have stated before that I believe SAO had too much potential. I feel the execution/presentation is rather lacking compared to the sheer awesomeness of the concept and background. It is still very enjoyable as a whole, but as of now, it's only decent. I know I might be comparing it to an elusive perfect standard, but I just can't help to feel that way, that's how huge I believe in SAO's potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:48. Reason: Spoiler tags for comparisons...
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Old 2012-10-09, 10:26   Link #429
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:48. Reason: spoiler tags for comparisons....
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Old 2012-10-09, 10:37   Link #430
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:48. Reason: Comparisons...
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Old 2012-10-09, 13:31   Link #431
Utsuro no Hako
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Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:49.
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Old 2012-10-09, 15:51   Link #432
Dr. Casey
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
(SAO was the first thing this guy wrote, when he was still a kid, and it shows)
Indeed, and on that note I think you'll enjoy the future story arcs a lot more, Kaioshin. The Sword Art Online story arc was something he wrote in 2002 as a novice; he picked up again several years later (I think a bit after he started writing Accel World), by which point his technique had matured to the level shown in Accel World.

Have to disagree with Kirito and Asuna being cheesy and sappy though, Kazu-kun-kun; to me it just feels like a lovely, sweet romance between two people that have a genuinely meaningful relationship, it doesn't feel... I dunno, wanky like the kind of teenage relationships you mention. Pictures such as the one in the image thread where Kirito, Asuna, and Yui are dressed up for Halloween together resonate with me well because, rather than being an eyerollingly overdone teenage couple with no real substance, they feel more like young adults, giving off the 'newlywed' vibe of a relationships whose closeness and tenderness is genuine and well-earned.

Yay I can argue without being a jerkoff now because I'm no longer a sleep-deprived wreck, thank you Clonidine
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Old 2012-10-09, 16:10   Link #433
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Have to disagree with Kirito and Asuna being cheesy and sappy though, Kazu-kun-kun; to me it just feels like a lovely, sweet romance between two people that have a genuinely meaningful relationship
One thing doesn't necessarily invalidates the other. I think they do have a "genuinely meaningful relationship", as you put it, and I also think it's cheesy and sappy as hell.

And I like it!!
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Old 2012-10-09, 16:18   Link #434
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Alrighty then. Maybe I misunderstood you because I'm used to the words cheesy and sappy being used as insults (in that's something isn't just unashamedly sentimental, but annoyingly or offensively so).
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Old 2012-10-09, 16:47   Link #435
Metaneo
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
One thing doesn't necessarily invalidates the other. I think they do have a "genuinely meaningful relationship", as you put it, and I also think it's cheesy and sappy as hell.

And I like it!!
I think most "genuinely meaningful relationships" are cheesey and sappy as hell. Maybe not so much in public (though I know quite a few couples who are sickeningly sweet in front of god and everyone), but behind closed doors even the most stand-offish couples can devolve into a loving mess.

Kinda like what we see between Kirito & Asuna, they arent all over each other in public like they are in their house/alone.

And I love it.
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Old 2012-10-09, 16:48   Link #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:49.
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Old 2012-10-09, 16:54   Link #437
Metaneo
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:50.
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Old 2012-10-09, 17:41   Link #438
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Originally Posted by Metaneo View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to Accel World:
I don't really see Asuna as his equal and I don't think she does either, but she's definitely one of the stronger characters in the game no doubt. She's indicated multiple times though that she's come to rely on him for his knowledge of the game and for his kindness towards her when she was basically alone. He essentially saved her and set her on the path towards becoming a front liner...but she's not his equal by any stretch. The only thing she seems to beat him at is cooking skill, but the lack of ability to dual wield pretty much instantly makes her nowhere close in terms of combat ability. Even Kayaba stated that for all intents and purposes he set Kirito up as the hero of the game and he expected nobody else but Kirito to be the one to face him at the final level, though of course that never happened.

Klein....I don't ever remember doing much of anything. That said there is some decent teamwork going on between Kirito and Asuna at times, but really the rest of the supporting cast just kind of feels like it's there to fall by the way side so that Kirito can save them, though from the sounds of Kayaba's speech it almost sounds like he might have been manipulating things so that this would be the case all along.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-09 at 20:51.
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Old 2012-10-09, 17:46   Link #439
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
....
Basically I see Accel World as more about team work and where hero can't succeed entirely without the good will and help of others, whereas SAO is more or less about Kirito doing absolutely everything in the long run and is more the traditional action hero.
But isn't SAO about team work too? In the end what we saw was in the end no matter what the stats, people are vulnerable when alone (the whole needing to play with a party then on your own), or if betrayed.

He never was the focus in the boss room, even when he pulled the duel sword skill out, without Klein and Asuna he would have died.

I think this is a hard one to categorise as it is pretty grey in a lot of areas, as his motives were never that clear cut.

If anything Kayaba wanted Kirito to fulfil the role of a traditional action hero, this imho by giving the duel wield skill and wanting to face off against him.

In terms of his heroism:

In the beginning he avoided people as it would slow him down, which he regretted through out the 2 years.

He went a bit suicidal after the Black Cats incident and would rather die first then see (or was it cause) others die.

Finally after coming to terms with that, he would rather run away with Asuna then put her in danger.

Him facing off against Kayaba on his own was imho an accumulation of those experiences and his death blow a sign of his love for Asuna.

More importantly his style of play is to leave himself a large margin of safety. Which I guess he would have regretted even more if the real heroic one wasn't there beside him... Asuna that is, she is the one who jumps into danger without any regard for margins or her own safety to save people she doesn't know.

I found his actions very human like which is one of the reasons why I like this show so much.
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Old 2012-10-09, 18:33   Link #440
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Originally Posted by grey_moon View Post
But isn't SAO about team work too? In the end what we saw was in the end no matter what the stats, people are vulnerable when alone (the whole needing to play with a party then on your own), or if betrayed.
Yeah like I said the two of them together is probably the best handled part of the show, but I've always though of a team as composing at least 5 or more players. Maybe that will come in time, but this felt like more of a partnership.

Quote:
He never was the focus in the boss room, even when he pulled the duel sword skill out, without Klein and Asuna he would have died.
Except the weird thing is even in spite of Asuna he did die....except he didn't or whatever. That part remains one of the vaguest scenes of the finale for me. It almost seems like he could have won even without Asuna jumping in front and somehow defying the paralysis stat. Like I said I really wish the show fleshed out it's mechanics more and the why of how things happened. It's probably number 3 on my lists of minor issues that bring an otherwise great series down.

Quote:
I think this is a hard one to categorise as it is pretty grey in a lot of areas, as his motives were never that clear cut.
Yeah....

Quote:
If anything Kayaba wanted Kirito to fulfil the role of a traditional action hero, this imho by giving the duel wield skill and wanting to face off against him.
Yeah this definitely seemed to be his goal.

Quote:
In terms of his heroism:

In the beginning he avoided people as it would slow him down, which he regretted through out the 2 years.

He went a bit suicidal after the Black Cats incident and would rather die first then see (or was it cause) others die.

Finally after coming to terms with that, he would rather run away with Asuna then put her in danger.
Yeah I'm not saying he makes for a poor hero or anything, he definitely goes through his share of trials too. He's a very traditional and archetypal hero in this sense.

Quote:
Him facing off against Kayaba on his own was imho an accumulation of those experiences and his death blow a sign of his love for Asuna.
That too me was one of the strongest scenes of this episode, that and the scene of him and Asuna gazing at their house falling into the abyss. Very good imagery. It's honestly just the sheer abruptness of the ending and those little continual issues I keep mentioning that bring an otherwise great episode down somewhat and leave me with mixed feelings.

Quote:
More importantly his style of play is to leave himself a large margin of safety. Which I guess he would have regretted even more if the real heroic one wasn't there beside him... Asuna that is, she is the one who jumps into danger without any regard for margins or her own safety to save people she doesn't know.
I wouldn't say that at all, if anything once he gets into the thick of battle he tend to get reckless and always seems to end up pretty much near death. Also I think it's more a tradeoff between the two. There have been times where she has come to his rescue when he's been reckless and tried to solo things to much and times where he has fought a duel in her stead or protected her from certain death as well when it would probably be wiser for him to take point. I wouldn't say their relationship is like Haruyuki and Snow Black's partnership wise where it's immediately clear that she is far and away the stronger and more heroic of the two by an unimaginably wide margin except in one particular instance. They're at least a little closer in skill as opposed to one being like the B leaguer to the others A leaguer that's slowly making his way up the ranks even if it seems clear to me that Kirito is the better, more skilled, and experienced fighter.

Quote:
I found his actions very human like which is one of the reasons why I like this show so much.
Yep he's a very traditional hero in that sense.
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