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Old 2012-10-07, 14:14   Link #61
janipani
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oh my... I really don't think Sanji is stronger than Law by just using Vergo as measurement.

Firstable Sanji got Vergo by surprise. Vergo never went at him at full power. Sanji made no harm to Vergo, neither did Law.

Vergo was after Law and also we can assume that he used much more power to tackle him than Sanji.

There are too much uncertainties to make any notations on whose who by looking at past fights. But as a supernova Law is considered to be closer to Luffy than Sanji what comes to fighting. And of course physical attacks can be seen as Laws weakness. Vergo is Law's cryptonite, super fast and physical, who also knows all Law's tricks and abilities.

Sanji however is also physical like Vergo, but Vergo beated him in Sanji's own game. That means Sanji got pretty much owned as well. Vergo is at the moment best kicker on the island... well if Luffy's axe or spear doesn't count as one.
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Old 2012-10-07, 14:48   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
That being said, Law couldn't have been all that powerful considering he is

1) Not a strawhat
2) Doflamingo's former subordinate, and as we all know, authority equals asskicking

He isn't the close combat type of guy anyway. His abilities are clearly of the utility variety.
^
I think it is more along the lines that we never understood the power he possessed. Most devil fruit users at first seem powerful but once you get to know them they start to lose their invincibility. For Law it is him who is the weakness not the devil fruit.

I am really curious to see what Vergo's powers or skills are. He beat Sanji by one factor and that was by having better quality body than Sanji. His movements when he traveled seemed like he probably weight more like 500 lbs. He lunches himself like he is letting the momentum of the weight carry him. What ever he is doing he seems like his can make his body harder and it almost seems like he can manipulate his weight. Sanji even described him has a mass of Iron. I know one of Crocs henchmen had the ability to manipulate her weight but I forgot the name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janipani View Post
oh my... I really don't think Sanji is stronger than Law by just using Vergo as measurement.

Firstable Sanji got Vergo by surprise. Vergo never went at him at full power. Sanji made no harm to Vergo, neither did Law.

Vergo was after Law and also we can assume that he used much more power to tackle him than Sanji.

There are too much uncertainties to make any notations on whose who by looking at past fights. But as a supernova Law is considered to be closer to Luffy than Sanji what comes to fighting. And of course physical attacks can be seen as Laws weakness. Vergo is Law's cryptonite, super fast and physical, who also knows all Law's tricks and abilities.

Sanji however is also physical like Vergo, but Vergo beated him in Sanji's own game. That means Sanji got pretty much owned as well. Vergo is at the moment best kicker on the island... well if Luffy's axe or spear doesn't count as one.
Chapter 681 displays a pretty even fight. Vergo also does not look like he was holding back. Second Supernovas range in power. Just because they were close two years ago does not mean they are close now. So after two years you have to wonder has the gap between Law and Luffy gotten smaller or larger? Fourth Sanji is very observant and smart. Yes Vergo beat Sanji at his own game but it was by only one factor. He had a better quality body then Sanji's. Finally the performance look at Sanji and Law. Sanji came out with a cracked leg, thats it. Law has bruises all over his body and he was soundly defeated. Has for being caught off guard Vergo actually had time to ask a question before he got kicked in the face. I think it is long the lines he could not dodge the attack. Finally getting owned is what happened to Law. Sanji lost to Vergo but it was a close fight not a onslaught.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2012-10-07 at 15:19.
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Old 2012-10-07, 15:34   Link #63
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Y'know, it's funny, but just a few pages back I also brought up how Sanji seemed to be on equal ground with Vergo prior to his leg getting broken. But in the end, I also feel it's too early to judge who's stronger between Law and the third of the monster trio, especially since neither of them were exactly in 100% tip-top condition when they encountered Vergo.....
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Old 2012-10-07, 16:10   Link #64
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Old 2012-10-07, 17:44   Link #65
janipani
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Well we'll see, but at least Sanji is no more match for Vergo than Law is, he would have had all his bones broken if they had fight longer.

Now we can wonder if Zoro is able to fight him, or is it Luffy who will actually put end for Vergo. And Law might still surprise you when he gets his heart back.
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Old 2012-10-08, 04:16   Link #66
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I want to point out a few thing. Although Vergo has the title of Vice Admiral, it doesn't mean that he is as strong a Vice admiral. He works under Doflamingo. He very well could be much stronger than a normal Vice Admiral.
Also most likely not all Admirals are of the same strength.
Also I think the power of Admirals are some what being underestimated ( IMO). When the Whitebeard war finished the Admirals took minimal damage. Even after Whitebeard ( One of my fav OP characters) using many strong combo attacks on Akainu, He was still fine. Yes, yes i know Whitebeard was weakened due to his old age, but the point is the same Whitebeard was one shotting Vice admirals with one/two hits and with much ease. He basically did like a super combo move on Akainu and he was basically more or less fine. Also not to mention that Akainu and Aokiji fought for 10 days in which they changed the weather in punk hazard. Don't forget Akainu had Lava vs Aokiji had ice and still they had a close 10 day match. This imo implies that beside abilities, Haki mastery/usage is very important and just shows how strong Admirals are.

I think Vergo, in terms of power is somewhere in between Vice Admiral and Admiral. I personally think there is a huge gap ( in terms of power) between a VA and admiral. That's why we only have 3 admirals.

As for Law vs Vergo, Imo Vergo is stronger than Law. But i think Vergo would have a hard fight against him. This could be one of the reasons that he won't let go of his heart. He knows if he has his heart back he is going to have a hard time( still win though). He still has to go after smoker and straw hats ( i think). I honestly don't think smoker winning this fight alone either. The way Tashigi was talking about Vergo it seemed as if Vergo is very strong ( much stronger than a normal VA). And i don't even think he is showing his real powers as VA either. So he probably has much higher potential that Tashigi or others know. But even after hiding his real power he seems to be formidable enough for Tashigi to be so worried. We have many VA. Imo It wouldn't be surprising if some were much stronger than the other.

Most likely Vergo leaves the island and he will eventually fight against Sanji at a later time. I don't see him going down any time soon if he is really Doflamingo's most trusted pirate.


Quote:
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Because he is wondering if he should ask her to join the crew .
I go with this . that's so luffy .
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Old 2012-10-08, 09:09   Link #67
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With all this talk about Vergo, one can't help but wonder what he was doing during the Marineford war. He would have been a great asset on the marines' side. Then again, it was only said that 100,000 marines from Marine Headquarters were assembled, and that doesn't necessarily include marines from the branches in the New World (in this case, G5).
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Old 2012-10-08, 15:04   Link #68
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^It's possible that he wasn't promoted to VA status yet at that time. After all, Law DID explain that it took him 15 years to rise to his current status. Or if he was already a VA then, he probably stayed at G5 under Doflamingo's orders.....
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Old 2012-10-08, 16:40   Link #69
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I wonder what Akainu would do if he knew where Vergo's hands are/were, since he already doesn't like the Shichibukai but puts up with them because of the standing condition between the WG and the War Lords.
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Old 2012-10-08, 16:51   Link #70
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
^It's possible that he wasn't promoted to VA status yet at that time. After all, Law DID explain that it took him 15 years to rise to his current status. Or if he was already a VA then, he probably stayed at G5 under Doflamingo's orders.....
His status wouldn't matter though. The marines were given a mandatory summon just like the shichibukai. There were tons of soldiers that weren't VA rank present at the war. Another noteworthy marine that wasn't present was Bogart (I know you also brought this up in the past), Garp's right-hand man. Perhaps Bogart also is stationed somewhere in the New World.
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Old 2012-10-08, 23:45   Link #71
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Another noteworthy marine that wasn't present was Bogart (I know you also brought this up in the past), Garp's right-hand man. Perhaps Bogart also is stationed somewhere in the New World.
Bogart could even be an Admiral now. He could be some one very strong but he also never decided to become an Admiral because he wanted to be under Garp.

I don't know if this is a filler or not, but wasn't Kizaru under Sengoku? He is now an admiral. Same with Aokiji. Bogart having been his right hand for such a long time could mean that he could be very strong.

Also i agree that maybe some of marines and or world government forces were stationed in other places.

Imagine another Yonkou would decide to attack another Marine/government location while they were fighting Whitebeard. So very plausible imo.

I think the Marine's biggest worry was Shanks at the time. This is my opinion/speculation. Maybe they thought they would have to deal with Shanks as well as Whitebeard. Maybe not the case but i wouldn't be too surprised if World government was some how involved in Shanks vs Kaidou fight.
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Old 2012-10-09, 14:33   Link #72
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Another noteworthy marine that wasn't present was Bogart (I know you also brought this up in the past), Garp's right-hand man. Perhaps Bogart also is stationed somewhere in the New World.

True, I certainly did bring up Bogart some time ago. Even now it puzzles me as to why he wasn't present at Marineford, But I have to admit that I can forgive his absence if he really WAS promoted and relocated to another branch as its commander (ala Vergo).....
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Old 2012-10-09, 19:01   Link #73
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between Law and the third of the monster trio, especially since neither of them were exactly in 100% tip-top condition when they encountered Vergo.....
Why third?

There is no evidence that Zoro is stronger than Sanji.
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Old 2012-10-09, 19:18   Link #74
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
There is no evidence that Zoro is stronger than Sanji.
Please no, not this discussion again...Everyone ignore it and it will go away.
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Old 2012-10-09, 21:43   Link #75
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Please no, not this discussion again...Everyone ignore it and it will go away.
Haha if this were an off-week I could see this convo coming up..

Back to the current chapter. I don't really get how Mocha is carrying away one giant candy, how are the kids suppose to share that?

I wonder if the changes Franky has in stored for the Sunny will be able to combat against CCs gas fruit and/or shinokuni...
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Old 2012-10-09, 22:20   Link #76
Whitemoon648
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Why third?

There is no evidence that Zoro is stronger than Sanji.
Yeah Why third . A very good question.

Imo the order should be like this, From the strongest to weakest

-Nami first ( because she is hot )
-Robin Second: Because we really don't know what she can do. She was perhaps trained under Dragon himself and we all know how epic Dragon is .
- Third is Ussop: He has a Wolf plant under his command enough said .
- 4th Sanji: Because he can go super sayan mode. He can fire up his whole body.
-5th Brook, Because Yohohohohoho . that line is just pure epic .
-6th Chopper: Because He is so darn cute
-7th Franky : LAAASER BEAM
-8th Zoro.
-9th Luffy Because because, I am sorry Luffy is number 1

Disclaimer: The above is a joke . Just for fun. It is not to be taken seriously .

As for your question ( Serious mode reply starts here), Well Although there is no definite evidence as why third, In my opinion it is implied/hinted.

- Zoro trained under the best sword man in the world and presumable lost his eye training so hard under him. It is assumed that Mihawk personally trained him. He was also stronger than Sanji before timeskip ( open for argument)

-Mean while Sanji trained under Ivankov and his subordinates. it is assumed that Ivankov although very strong is weaker than Mihawk. Also it can be assumed that Sanji didn't fully train under him. Unlike Mihawk, a guy who follows no name pirates to kill his boredom all the way to east blue, Ivankov is an officer of revolutionary army under dragon. He most likely didn't have the luxury of training Sanji for two years personally. Mihawk most likely did. Also let's not forget, most likely a lot of Sanji's training was about cooking. He is a cook after all.


Also other unknowns in terms of strength.

How strong Franky and Robin really are?
-One could argue Franky's power although strong might be limited. He requires fuel ( correct me if i am wrong).
-Second unknown is Robin. We don't really know about what kind of training she went under. Also she has two obsessions. One is history and second which imo is usually not paid attention as much is protecting Luffy.

She could have very well trained under Dragon himself. She could be capable of using Arms Haki. She could be one of the strongest Strawhats. People might ignore this but i am calling it today. Robin shouldn't be underestimated power wise.

I know the above is at this point unlikely/far fetched. This could serve as a surprise in future. Because we don't really know what Robin did in the two years.

It wouldn't be unlikely if Robin was hiding her full potential imo.

Feel free to disagree.

P.S. @ james, Sorry bro, i had to reply to this post. Although what Paradox said (imo) is unlikely, i don't think it should be shrugged off. This is a forum to discuss point of views/opinion ( no matter how unlikely). Feel free to delete/edit my post if you feel i went overboard/ beyond Animesuki rules/guidelines. Cheers.
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Old 2012-10-10, 00:45   Link #77
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Marvel is currently offline, so I'll start the new thread. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.
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Old 2012-10-10, 09:31   Link #78
marvelB
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Why third?

There is no evidence that Zoro is stronger than Sanji.

Since I also don't want to set off another fiery debate, let me make myself clear here: I'm not referring to Sanji as third in strength, but "third" in the sense that he's the "last" member of the monster trio (since he joined later than Zoro did). Just like how I'd refer to Chopper as the third of the "weak trio" (since he joined later than Nami and Usopp, though he's clearly stronger than them physically). So yeah, that's what I meant, and I apologize for the confusion....
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