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Old 2012-10-07, 22:07   Link #2121
RapidPotential
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Well, some of us here (me included) have learnt Chinese before and are not proficient enough in Japanese to be reading it in its native form, thus the Chinese translations are just about as close one can get to reading the novel. Moreover, the Chinese LN (or manga) community is pretty big too, and there're a lot more translators for them than for English ones.
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Old 2012-10-07, 23:28   Link #2122
Undertaker
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Also a vast majority of them are licensed through Taiwan and Hong Kong, as result people like us who are just amateurs in Japanese and much more proficient in Chinese can get a better grasp of details and grab them through online book shops.

But like RapidPotential said it's mainly the size of the fan community
Spoiler for and..:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Oku? What's the kanji?

I agree with Undertaker's assessment. Heck, Kenshin has been portrayed as a reserved, dignified person in both genders, so deviating from that would be quite an unique portrayal.
My bad, actual translation should "oogui" 大食.

Though they are much cuter in 2D, but it is a charm point for some celebraties and idols even if they are not quite competition-level eaters.
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Old 2012-10-08, 10:28   Link #2123
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It would be a clash of character if both Takeda and Kenshin were they be portrayed as both a tom-boyish general so I would like it if Kenshin turned out to be a refined high-class ojou-sama who is pure and innocent.
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Old 2012-10-08, 13:52   Link #2124
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I prefer kenshin appered to be a nun, as kenshin at samurai warrior game series he looked like a weaponed monk..
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Old 2012-10-08, 15:52   Link #2125
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Well, about that: It was probably to hide this:

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Old 2012-10-08, 16:00   Link #2126
HasNoLove
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dat face resemble of ranmaru mori from the same game I mentioned before...
who's dat..??
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Old 2012-10-08, 16:07   Link #2127
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Uesugi Kenshin from Nobunaga no Yabo: Tendou. You can choose either the male or female version of Kenshin in the game.
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Old 2012-10-08, 16:39   Link #2128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HasNoLove View Post
I prefer kenshin appered to be a nun, as kenshin at samurai warrior game series he looked like a weaponed monk..
He suppose to, he actually did shave(?) his head and become a monk while he was still a daimyo,..

Kenshin is actually his buddhist monk name, his full name in later live is actually Fushikian Kenshin (不識庵 謙信), but since he is still daimyo and to avoid confusion, people just refer him as Uesugi Kenshin.

Otherwise, Terutora is the last name he used in association with Uesugi.


I was actually playing Nobunaga no Yabo: Tendou and Romance of Three Kingdom XII lately....

The guy Kenshin and girl Kenshin actually have different stats...
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Old 2012-10-09, 09:40   Link #2129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
He suppose to, he actually did shave(?) his head and become a monk while he was still a daimyo,..

Kenshin is actually his buddhist monk name, his full name in later live is actually Fushikian Kenshin (不識庵 謙信), but since he is still daimyo and to avoid confusion, people just refer him as Uesugi Kenshin.

Otherwise, Terutora is the last name he used in association with Uesugi.


I was actually playing Nobunaga no Yabo: Tendou and Romance of Three Kingdom XII lately....

The guy Kenshin and girl Kenshin actually have different stats...
That would be obvious. Sense in every game whether you chose male or female your stats vary. Even in a retro gender bender anime like Ranma 1/2 his stats for girl and boy stats vary differently.
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Old 2012-10-09, 11:20   Link #2130
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True, but it it still amazes me everytime I decided on which Kenshin to include...
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Old 2012-10-09, 22:10   Link #2131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfsac View Post
The novels are on japanese right, so why we usually wait for chinese translations? It always made me confuse either on manga or LNs.
Cause there's a huge community in chinese for translating novels, not to mention there's official companies that's quite active in translating light novels to chinese, and seeing how it's an official company and all the translations are quite accurate, at least imo it is. Like the official company like kadokawa taiwan, translate at quite a fast rate only falling a couple of volumes behind some of the more popular series. Ofc there's also the fact that some of us here can read chinese but not quite profficient in japanese enough to read it well.
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Old 2012-10-10, 04:04   Link #2132
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Congratulations Kanbei. You just replaced Juubei for 2014 Taiga Drama. [source]
I remember the thread was full with Juubei's AAs, complains about it will just be a tragic drama for both Juubei and Nobunaga, and some even wanted it to be the life as a Tenkai to be depicted. The most funny part was they think the drama should include Azumi (manga, and movies which Ueto Aya was the heroine)

About Kanbei: it put a smile on my face when she studied Electromagnetism and onmyoudou. Our brethren of Electrical engineers, no matter what major they chose later, should performed black magic at least in their first year. The Tele and Microwave engineers are the ones that could not escape that thing
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Old 2012-10-10, 04:38   Link #2133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
Congratulations Kanbei. You just replaced Juubei for 2014 Taiga Drama. [source]
I remember the thread was full with Juubei's AAs, complains about it will just be a tragic drama for both Juubei and Nobunaga, and some even wanted it to be the life as a Tenkai to be depicted. The most funny part was they think the drama should include Azumi (manga, and movies which Ueto Aya was the heroine)

About Kanbei: it put a smile on my face when she studied Electromagnetism and onmyoudou. Our brethren of Electrical engineers, no matter what major they chose later, should performed black magic at least in their first year. The Tele and Microwave engineers are the ones that could not escape that thing
could you elaborate? ever since the 4chan mentioned that Kuroda Yoshitaka is a foul mouthed, bullying loli girl (challenging Takenaka Shigeharu's Onmyoudo with her own Mass produced Mobile Suit, threatening Nene to drown her in her own piss and insulting Hachisuka Hikoemon by making her tongue twisterring her name) i always curious with this embodiment of Pang Shiyuan and Jia Xu.

pretty pretty please please....

well in Japan there is a figure named Hiraga Gennai, so it is not surprising for Kuroda Yoshitaka to know Electricity, just like Benjamin Franklin.
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Old 2012-10-11, 12:32   Link #2134
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^
Spoiler for I've lost interest in this books, so don't ask me anymore:
Hmmm. Rather waiting for people to give summary, why not study the language.?
Though looking from the list of people who posted in this thread, I believe these guys and girls are Japanese-able: Sumeragi, Undertaker, Akumasama, larethian, Himmel, Teh Ping (why? why? ) KuroiHikari, Syokool, n0m@n, Darknemo2000, kuroishinigami. So let's hear it from them

I would like to suggest to go and nag my friend, kuroishinigami, because he was a translator, and good in doing summary

Thanks to the girl in my avatar I'm mad 20miles is cut short and moved to Saturday morning, I skimmed the Taiga Drama, Oda Nobunaga: King of Zipangu. One of the chapter title in vol 3 was called "QUEEN OF ZIPANG".
In the drama, Akechi Mitsuhide was highly regarded by Nobunaga that he overworked himself and fell into neurosis state, and it was the cause of Honnouji no Hen. Well that thing is already happening in the LN
And the drama used what was recorded by Lois Frois regarding Nobunaga thinking himself as a deity (not proven).

In Yoshikawa Eiji's novel Taiko, he wrote that Nobunaga abused Mitsuhide and called him Kumquat head. I remember one scene where Mitsuhide was drinking the booze with Takigawa Kazumasu in a celebration of the Oda, and Nobunaga got mad with Mitsuhide. MItsuhide was depicted as "never made a mistake" and has wise reasoning power.

In the LN, Nobuna already called Juubei as Kumquat Girl v6p144, when Juubei kept coming back with plans to counter Nobuna's plan of Azuchi Castle. As if her forehead was not enough to tell people that she is Akechi Mitsuhide, why would the author put a pair of kumquat for Juubei's hair pin. Fuck.

In the cave scene, when Juubei said she would like to take care of Yoshiharu like a mother, it quickly triggered my mind about the theory (not proven) of Mitushide's mother. It was the most used theory to romanticize the treachery of Mitsuhide. And Juubei did told Nobuna that she had given her body to Yoshiharu, so she has to marry him. Nobuna asked when and where, and Yoshiharu said it was a misunderstanding. Good for my girl that she didn't whore herself into telling Yoshiharu how and when, but poor her.

And so, I don't think I want to continue with the novel. Not like that I have much time anyway.
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-10-16 at 08:58. Reason: it was Kanbei who asked Goemon to say her name 5 times. Too tired, sorry
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Old 2012-10-11, 15:04   Link #2135
TJP1600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby View Post
Hmmm. Rather waiting for people to give summary, why not study the language.?
Though looking from the list of people who posted in this thread, I believe these guys and girls are Japanese-able: Sumeragi, Undertaker, Akumasama, larethian, Himmel, Teh Ping (why? why? ) KuroiHikari, Syokool, n0m@n, Darknemo2000, kuroishinigami. So let's hear it from them
You seem to be quite adamant about people learning the language. Unfortunately that is a distant dream especially when there are others out there willing to do the job. If the translators don't translate it people move on to another novel. Depressing world indeed.
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Old 2012-10-11, 20:12   Link #2136
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Actually i was asking about the Taiga drama, but i never expected you would kindly explain about Kuroda Yoshitaka more clearly than 4chan obscure description. THANK YOU VERY MUCH! this is what they say seeking Knut but instead end up with Galleon.

Well... i read them, but they wrote it in furigana which is not my forte. if only it was all katakana and hiragana i can manage... also with them writing in vertical east asian format writing only add salt to injury. Which make me want to quote Homer Simpson " Stupid japanese, why don't you learn my language (or at least English)!?! I learn to eat your food!"

Nah... I am training to be patient person , that is why i don't want to bother the translator or anyone. I will wait until the translation or summary be released. I have plenty of time. But hearing the gentleman offer.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby
So let's hear it from them
Let us hear it. people have different interpretation on a matter, after all.


But in Eiji Yoshikawa's Taiko itself, Akechi was quite hesitant to rebel. it was most of his retainer who pitied him who urge him to. in the novel, the first friction seems about Nobunaga unreasonable anger about hygiene in the castle's kitchen (or pantry). What more ridiculous is Eiji Yoshikawa portrayal in Akechi who have no ambition left after Honnouji revolt. now i understand why people like Luu Fengxian and Dong Zhuo is appreciated more. at least in Ravages of Time.

Scopedog, eh.... i always enjoy Chirico antics in using them, instead of nowadays Toy-Mecha. truly militaristic. so... the origin of General Hashiba Hideyoshi helmet which resembled sunlight come from.... Kuroda Yoshitaka's automata... i don't know... should i be surprised or... Toyotomi Hideyoshi was said to be man who is blind in aesthetic and artistic sense.... so... i guess it is plausible.
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Old 2012-10-12, 20:57   Link #2137
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The cause of Honnojj and the reason behind Mitsuhide's rebel is still a mystery. Most of the facts are al over the place and there are tons of theories from the court to Hideyoshi to even Tokugawa.

The hygiene was pretty legit IMO, it was supposedly during a festival with court official and Tokugawa in attendance. Mitsuhide was in charge of the organization and it ends up that the fish that was served was rotten and spoiled. Anyone would have been angered let along Nobunaga whe is know for short fuses (though it also seem he lets things down just as quick).

Staying on the theory that Honnoji was Mitsuhide's sole idea. That event shouldn't be the trigger for his rebellion especially when all records indicates that he was Nobunaga's most trusted and highly regarded as well as most high compensated general.

As for Kuroda, I haven't read much historical record to see what his personality is like. Most of record revolve around him are his accomplishments and not his relations.

Only thing notable was that Kuroda and Hanbei has respect of each other and both consider Nobunaga to be a genius and hence feels that working directly under Nobunaga is pointless and instead serves as Hideyoshi's guest retainer as the condition.

But maybe because Hanbei is always have this image of "white" personality and his namesake (Kuro means black). Kuroda is usually depict as a dark,scheming, counterpart who handle more shady part of Hideyoshi operation. As such he is usually depict as a non-well like among his peer and very cynical (hence the foul mouth).

His image is basically that of Jia Xiu if you use Xun Yu-Jia Xiu dynamic or more anime reference, Paul von Oberstein compares to Siegfried Kircheis from The Legend of Galactic Heroes
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Old 2012-10-12, 21:04   Link #2138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
The cause of Honnojj and the reason behind Mitsuhide's rebel is still a mystery. Most of the facts are al over the place and there are tons of theories from the court to Hideyoshi to even Tokugawa.

The hygiene was pretty legit IMO, it was supposedly during a festival with court official and Tokugawa in attendance. Mitsuhide was in charge of the organization and it ends up that the fish that was served was rotten and spoiled. Anyone would have been angered let along Nobunaga whe is know for short fuses (though it also seem he lets things down just as quick).

Staying on the theory that Honnoji was Mitsuhide's sole idea. That event shouldn't be the trigger for his rebellion especially when all records indicates that he was Nobunaga's most trusted and highly regarded as well as most high compensated general.

As for Kuroda, I haven't read much historical record to see what his personality is like. Most of record revolve around him are his accomplishments and not his relations.

Only thing notable was that Kuroda and Hanbei has respect of each other and both consider Nobunaga to be a genius and hence feels that working directly under Nobunaga is pointless and instead serves as Hideyoshi's guest retainer as the condition.

But maybe because Hanbei is always have this image of "white" personality and his namesake (Kuro means black). Kuroda is usually depict as a dark,scheming, counterpart who handle more shady part of Hideyoshi operation. As such he is usually depict as a non-well like among his peer and very cynical (hence the foul mouth).

His image is basically that of Jia Xiu if you use Xun Yu-Jia Xiu dynamic or more anime reference, Paul von Oberstein compares to Siegfried Kircheis from The Legend of Galactic Heroes
Thanks for the back story about Hanbei and Kuroda. Looking at it now in the Light Novel, Hanbei always wore white outfits and Kuroda always wore dark, plus their skin tones even indicate this.
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Old 2012-10-12, 21:05   Link #2139
justpassingby
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I don't have my Japanese copy right now, but this is the translated version of what Yoshikawa-shi wrote in Taiko
Spoiler for Taiko:
I believed Taiko was also translated into Malay Indonesia, right?

Edit:
Hmmm, so when Juubei said she had a headache and couldn't sleep, and then carelessly drink Goemon's ninja secret medicine that had the effect of aphrodisiac, could it be the neurosis? Is there even a cure for that?
Reading about neurosis (especially Jung's theory) was entertaining. :P [wiki][wiki-Jung][extra]
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-10-13 at 00:34. Reason: the fuck I was smoking?
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Old 2012-10-13, 00:39   Link #2140
rantaid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker
The hygiene was pretty legit IMO, it was supposedly during a festival with court official and Tokugawa in attendance. Mitsuhide was in charge of the organization and it ends up that the fish that was served was rotten and spoiled. Anyone would have been angered let along Nobunaga whe is know for short fuses (though it also seem he lets things down just as quick).

Staying on the theory that Honnoji was Mitsuhide's sole idea. That event shouldn't be the trigger for his rebellion especially when all records indicates that he was Nobunaga's most trusted and highly regarded as well as most high compensated general.
That idea was used as the basis in Eiji Yoshikawa's Taiko. hence my reasoning. Akechi Mitsuhide was thoroughly insulted by Nobunaga's treatment which affected Akechi Mitsuhide's retainer and urge him that "Warrior can die, not be insulted." ... okay that just my opinion as Wuxia's enthusiast.

But, Eiji Yoshikawa also portray Mitsuhide as indecisive. if only he decided firmly that as a retainer, it is his job to contain his lord anger it would be different. While in the other hand, General Hashiba Hideyoshi was frequently insulted by Nobunaga , calling him "Monkey, Simian" being sternly scolded, even being ignored once and refused of his presence because Nobunaga disagreed about his decision about Bizen clan. However, General Hashiba contain all the anger and insult with broad minded and simply laughed it off, because he understand the difficulty of his master.

This goes to the famous senryu , If the cuckoo did not sing, coax him.

This action greatly make the difference of Akechi Mitsuhide and Hashiba Hideyoshi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker
As for Kuroda, I haven't read much historical record to see what his personality is like. Most of record revolve around him are his accomplishments and not his relations.

Only thing notable was that Kuroda and Hanbei has respect of each other and both consider Nobunaga to be a genius and hence feels that working directly under Nobunaga is pointless and instead serves as Hideyoshi's guest retainer as the condition.

But maybe because Hanbei is always have this image of "white" personality and his namesake (Kuro means black). Kuroda is usually depict as a dark,scheming, counterpart who handle more shady part of Hideyoshi operation. As such he is usually depict as a non-well like among his peer and very cynical (hence the foul mouth).

His image is basically that of Jia Xiu if you use Xun Yu-Jia Xiu dynamic or more anime reference, Paul von Oberstein compares to Siegfried Kircheis from The Legend of Galactic Heroes
Well, for Kuroda Yoshitaka, there is one case. seems that he was formerly Nobunaga direct retainer which General Hashiba never has the chance to met him in person and only know him by letter and description. But it was said that Hashiba already admired him personally.

in Eiji Yoshikawa's Taiko, General Hashiba Hideyoshi once remarked having both Kuroda Yoshitaka and Takenaka Shigeharu is like having complete limbs and hands which put ease in mind. their effective leadership and troop deployment made Hideyoshi does not need to worry about anything.

then, the relationship between Kuroda Yoshitaka and Nobunaga soured because Nobunaga in fit of anger and suspicion during General Araki Murashige's betrayal, he intended to execute Kuroda Yoshitaka's son ....(i forgot the name) . of all who know Kuroda Yoshitaka, only General Hashiba and Takenaka Shigeharu numerously tried to prevented the execution. Takenaka Shigeharu who was in charge of Kuroda Yoshitaka's son even defied to order in pretext of his health condition, and he along the said child ask for audience to Nobunaga even at the cost of his own life. this made Kuroda Yoshitaka changed his loyalty to General Hashiba Hideyoshi and deepen the friendship between him with general Takenaka Shigeharu.

Well Don Simeon potrayal as dark or wicked seemed stemming from imitating Romance of Three Kingdom relationship of Pang Shiyuan and Zhuge Kongming. Shiyuan was said to be very ugly man which made Sun Quan refused his service. did not the LN Oda Nobuna vol.8 cover give the idea? with Takenaka Shigeharu in white, Onmyouji attire and her holding the crane fan? this felt like Zhuge Liang's appearance in ROTK in the Longzhong Three visit, where he wore a Daoist attire, and holding fan. his method was said to be white (Fiercely loyal to his lord, even until his death).

At first i dislike the idea of Master Strategist plus Magician. it kind of overkill... but now after discussing here, i realized they used the basis from Zhuge Liang, who was said as a capable trickster. which goes to Zhuge plays God against Zhongda during the Northern Expedition. seems that the cute Takenaka Shigeharu from the LN borrowed her basis of existence from Zhuge Liang Kongming. no wonder of her Eight Maze Sentinel.

While Kuroda Yoshitaka why felt like Pang Shiyuan due to their similarity in their fondness in dirty tricks. after all the end justify the mean. But for what i see , they are too similar with Cao Wei's capable minister. Takenaka Shigeharu being Guo Jia and Kuroda Yoshitaka as Jia Xu. Guo Jia leave a will to not march the army against Gongsun Kang of Liaodong, while Takenaka Shigeharu leave a will to not besiege one of the decisive fort of Mori Clan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justpassingby
Also, I believed Taiko was also translated into Malay Indonesia, right?

Edit:
Hmmm, so when Juubei said she had a headache and couldn't sleep, and then carelessly drink Goemon's ninja secret medicine that had the effect of aphrodisiac, could it be the neurosis? Is there even a cure for that?
Reading about neurosis (especially Jung's theory) was entertaining. :P
OUCH! you knew.... my trick has been revealed. Well that is correct. I read Indonesian translated Taiko back in my younger day and buy them recently after the publisher released a deluxe copy of them. And you write the part which become the basis of my argument.

But frankly speaking, i prefer if they also released complete Shin Heike no Monogatari (New Tale of Heike). it was far more satisfying reading. i once read them in bookstore, but... they only ended it before Shanao Minamoto Yoshitsune engaged in Genpei war! this force me to rely on the manga. But it was not as good as Chen Mou's Ravages of Time!

So.... Juubei drink Hachisuka Hikoemon's secret aphrodisiac which made her become.... hubba hubba in vol.09 illustration of Yoshiharu, Nobuna and Juubei.

I pray to God. don't make this a love triangle except it is a cuckold love scene. please....

Neurosis ? what is that ? some kind of Psychosomatic? can anyone explain to me?
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