AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Bleach

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-10-10, 22:24   Link #1021
Bassoonicmayhem
The Procrastinator
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: it's too dark to tell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
As for how Bach could know about an event we haven't seen, he might've just assumed the most likely scenario.
I can find that plausible. I thought that he was referencing moments in time that had actually happened that I just couldn’t remember; that this new villain had somehow knew about. But that makes much more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Cat-Sama View Post
Bleach has moved past the 'emotional' death point, where drawing things out like that would ruin the flow of things.
I feel that Bleach has never really had an emotional death. Out of the characters that have died, the majority of them have been villain, with a few good guys scattered in there—Yamamoto, Sasakibe, Kaien, Ichigo’s mom, and Gin (who was an anti-hero). I won’t count Byakuya either, until it is confirmed. You can show me him hunched over and bloodied, but that isn’t good enough. He has to be vaporized just like Yamamoto to count on this list because I can see him easily being healed back to life.

But a theme that Kubo likes to use involves killing off a character (whether off screen or during an epic battle) then giving them ‘backstory’ that essentially makes the character who they were as a person/arrancar/soul reaper/ext. For villains, this shines some light on them and makes them seem more relatable or at least, less wicked. For heroes, this further places emphases on their honor or what really made them good. Unfortunately, most of these characters are already known to be fodder (the villains) or are hardly known at all (the heroes). So this ‘development’ feels forced and contrived.

I really wish that Yamamoto had been given an honorable death because we as the readers didn’t know his past as being a ‘gangsta badass’ (or at least, I was unaware). It hadn’t been established. Now something vaguely mentioned by this new villain is how we are supposed to see Yamamoto—just some dried up old gangster that didn’t stand a chance. And I know that this will be used against Ichigo, to make his resolve waver in a future battle. Kubo has done this in the past, in almost all of the arcs.

When Bach gets his speech (because all villains in shonen get these) he will tell the terrible truths of the SS’s malicious and malevolent ways. How SS made up lies to the new soul reapers that Qunicies had to be eliminated because they disrupted the balance to cover up the fact that they committed a mass genocide all because of a turf war (or something to this affect). Kubo will change the history that has already been established like he has before. And even if everything the villain is saying turns out to be true later on, Ichigo won’t believe him. He can only speculate in that one moment of doubt. And maybe that’s why Kubo didn’t give Yamamoto an honorable death. Yamamoto may turn out to be not a very good character at the end of this arc.


Quote:
Seriously though, can someone answer this for me? The Mohawk Stern Ritter was roasted by Yamamoto when he, As Nodt and Nananananaa Jakoop tried to sneak attack him, right? Then how is he still standing whent he soldiers storm in?
I was wondering the same thing. At first I couldn't recongize the character and thought that Ikkaku had grown a mohawk, but then I realized it was one of the people that Yamamoto fried. I have no clue how he's still standing. Maybe fire attacks are less affective on him, since all of these Quincies seemingly have special powers.
__________________
Speical thanks to Haladflire65 for the awesome Signature
Bassoonicmayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 22:30   Link #1022
ronin myael
lost ronin
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: in the recesses of my convoluted mind...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Yamaji got taken out like a punk.
Really i can't help but compare this to how other old anime badasses got taken out. In Naruto the 3rd Hokage had a fierce fight against one of the most prominent villains and in death managed to severely injure him and force him to retreat; considering Bach was planning on leaving anyway to wait for the royal guard maybe Yamaji could have achieved something similar. In One Piece, we had whitebeard who stormed the battlefield plowing through even the toughest opponents; he was taken out by the shear number of wounds that was inflicted upon him by the entire ARMY he was fighting against. Yamaji of bleach... he wastes his best moves taking out a minion and is then taken down effortlessly by the villain. Thus he dies achieving nothing and dying like a punk
i agree. he could have used his bankai to at least take out the shitritters who were currently in soul society, save for juha bach himself who would obviously survive the attack. then at least his efforts wouldn't be for naught. that would have been a good death for such a powerful character.
__________________
"Sometimes you wake up. Sometimes the fall kills you. And sometimes, when you fall, you fly."~ Neil Gaiman (The Sandman)
ronin myael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 22:42   Link #1023
SeanQ
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassoonicmayhem View Post
When Bach gets his speech (because all villains in shonen get these) he will tell the terrible truths of the SS’s malicious and malevolent ways. How SS made up lies to the new soul reapers that Qunicies had to be eliminated because they disrupted the balance to cover up the fact that they committed a mass genocide all because of a turf war (or something to this affect). Kubo will change the history that has already been established like he has before. And even if everything the villain is saying turns out to be true later on, Ichigo won’t believe him. He can only speculate in that one moment of doubt. And maybe that’s why Kubo didn’t give Yamamoto an honorable death. Yamamoto may turn out to be not a very good character at the end of this arc.
Kinda too late for Bach to QQ about his people dying...seeing as he kills his own man anyways

Any soft-hearted reason now for this attack on SS by Bach would be as stupid as Ichigo's explanation for Aizen.
__________________
Your signature was deleted by a Mod because it exceeded the size limit requested in the forum rules! Please take a look at it.
SeanQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 22:48   Link #1024
Marcus H.
Hunk o' Burning Love
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
Quote:
I wonder what did bach do to Aizen for declining his invitation? lol
Here is the reason why.
__________________
Marcus' Handpicked!
Autumn 2014: Log Horizon S2, Amagi Brilliant Park and Fate/Stay Night (2014).
Summer 2014: Hanayamata, Rail Wars!, Rokujouma no Shinryakusha!?, Sabagebu!, Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun and Hanamonogatari.


Contact me on Wikia, MyAnimeList and Hummingbird.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 36. Completed: 214. Plan to watch: 33.

Marcus H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 22:48   Link #1025
Bassoonicmayhem
The Procrastinator
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: it's too dark to tell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanQ View Post
Kinda too late for Bach to QQ about his people dying...seeing as he kills his own man anyways

Any soft-hearted reason now for this attack on SS by Bach would be as stupid as Ichigo's explanation for Aizen.
I don't think it would be considered 'soft-hearted'. It would and still be for revenge. The reason Ichigo has always been so powerful (besides being the chosen one) is because he has the resolve to take care of business, protect his friends, not want to die, ext. He's gone through numerous reason of why he has to kill some baddy or at least neutralizer them and usually, they can say a few words and suddenly he's broken. I think that Bach will just mention this, just to break Ichigo's resolve, when we eventually get to their fight. But that's a long ways to go.
__________________
Speical thanks to Haladflire65 for the awesome Signature
Bassoonicmayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 22:56   Link #1026
SeanQ
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassoonicmayhem View Post
I don't think it would be considered 'soft-hearted'. It would and still be for revenge. The reason Ichigo has always been so powerful (besides being the chosen one) is because he has the resolve to take care of business, protect his friends, not want to die, ext. He's gone through numerous reason of why he has to kill some baddy or at least neutralizer them and usually, they can say a few words and suddenly he's broken. I think that Bach will just mention this, just to break Ichigo's resolve, when we eventually get to their fight. But that's a long ways to go.
It doesn't make sense for him to hold a grudge against them for killing quincies when Bach does it himself,unless Shinigamis assraped him as a child...his reasons for revenge would be just -_-. Imma just call it, since this whole arc is just a rehash of Aizen's...Bach is doing it because he's lonely.
__________________
Your signature was deleted by a Mod because it exceeded the size limit requested in the forum rules! Please take a look at it.
SeanQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 23:01   Link #1027
Bassoonicmayhem
The Procrastinator
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: it's too dark to tell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanQ View Post
It doesn't make sense for him to hold a grudge against them for killing quincies when Bach does it himself,unless Shinigamis assraped him as a child...his reasons for revenge would be just -_-. Imma just call it, since this whole arc is just a rehash of Aizen's...Bach is doing it because he's lonely
I'm not saying he's the brightest villain. Possibly insane. I could also buy the possibility of Back starting the war because he was bored and had too much free time.
__________________
Speical thanks to Haladflire65 for the awesome Signature
Bassoonicmayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 23:19   Link #1028
xky
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I wish Yamamoto had fought back at least a little. Dying in one slash doesn't befit him.

As for the monster metaphor, it's pretty obvious it was referring to Yamamoto himself. It seems like he pretty much destroyed Soul Society while trying to defend it in the past. He probably even killed his own subordinates too. That was something he deeply regretted and swore it would never happen again.
first thought that popped in my head was, it was Yama-jii, in Zanka no Tachi, Nishi: Zanjitsu Gokui. and some insane Shinigami painter was close enough in the battle scene to paint him
xky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 23:31   Link #1029
sayde
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanQ View Post
It doesn't make sense for him to hold a grudge against them for killing quincies when Bach does it himself,unless Shinigamis assraped him as a child...his reasons for revenge would be just -_-. Imma just call it, since this whole arc is just a rehash of Aizen's...Bach is doing it because he's lonely.
Well if we go along with the notion of Bach being a former shinigami, he might have tons of potential reasons to wage war against Yamamoto and his army if the old way Yama-jii and his band of "thugs" conducted their affairs was really as cruel and unjust as was implied this chapter.

Actually, what's somewhat interesting to note is that Juha Bach revealed Yamamoto to once act in a similar matter to the way Yamamoto claimed Juha Bach acts right now. In other words, Juha Bach accused Yamamoto of once being someone who would do anything it takes to win and who also didn't care for the lives of his subordinates at all. This sounds like it describes Juha Bach perfectly. To top it off, it almost sounded like Juha Bach was praising him for these former qualities. So regardless of the fact that they opposed each other, it sure seems possible that Yamamoto's old ways may have influenced and eventually created the man we see now.
sayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 23:35   Link #1030
SeanQ
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
They were both dicks back then...difference is, Bach remained a dick and Yama became a pussy.
__________________
Your signature was deleted by a Mod because it exceeded the size limit requested in the forum rules! Please take a look at it.
SeanQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 23:37   Link #1031
sayde
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanQ View Post
They were both dicks back then...difference is, Bach remained a dick and Yama became a pussy.
Obviously. But the question is, was Bach always a dick, or was that somehow Yamamoto's doing?
sayde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-10, 23:40   Link #1032
SeanQ
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Obviously. But the question is, was Bach always a dick, or was that somehow Yamamoto's doing?
Did Yama-ji ass rape him as a child for him to turn out this way? Looking at Bleach's track record for main villains, they're just evil just to be evil. Or I don't know, kinda hard to make someone feel comfortable with killing their own race so...
__________________
Your signature was deleted by a Mod because it exceeded the size limit requested in the forum rules! Please take a look at it.
SeanQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-11, 01:16   Link #1033
Lendial
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
This is so much like the bounto arc- which imo was the lowpoint of the series.
__________________
Lendial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-11, 01:31   Link #1034
Bassoonicmayhem
The Procrastinator
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: it's too dark to tell...
^And Bount was anime filler, wasn't it? (I'd have to ask because I really don't watch the anime.)

To me, the lowest point of the manga was the Fullbringer Arc. Fullbringer, to me, had potential, with the main villain of that series being a substitute soul reaper, like Ichigo, but it was done poorly and was seemingly overshadowed by all of the other characters that didn't amount to much. It wasn't to the point, when if it had been, it might have had more impact. It possibly would have been shorter, but better. I really can't say anything about the anime arcs (that are filler) because I don't think I watched any of them. I just know of them.

I know that this arc, by the end of it, won't be very good, but I don't think it will be the worst. More things have to occur other than the Soul Society getting destroyed though. It's become a little redundant and boring by now. Changing paces and going off the Hueco Mundo will do some good. (If Kubo does do that in the next chapter or two.)
__________________
Speical thanks to Haladflire65 for the awesome Signature
Bassoonicmayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-11, 02:14   Link #1035
Nintendo
start thinkin bout clones
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles,California
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to Nintendo
bach seems so powerful that when aizen declined to be a sub character he probably just left him to his devices. its not like aizen can punch him or do anything to him since hes locked up, tied to a chair and gagged.
__________________
Nintendo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-11, 02:36   Link #1036
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Obviously. But the question is, was Bach always a dick, or was that somehow Yamamoto's doing?
Probably a mix of both. The Quincy were pushed to the brink of extinction by Soul Society, which according to Bach, and implied by others in the story, used to be ruthless in their judgment.

It's probably fairly close to the truth that the initial forming of the divisions was the result of the strong banding together in a warped sense of justice. Just look at how poor the various districts are, and how characters like Zaraki and Yachiru lived. Outside the walls of SS, existence is brutal. If you can't fend for yourself, it's even worse.

So the divisions are tasked, or choose to task themselves, with preserving order, and the Quincy were literally unbalancing it. I doubt diplomacy was used much - just look at how they treated Ichigo before he saved their asses a bunch of times. He might have been the agent of change that helped SS become better, but they still have a lot of demons in their history that have come back to bite them.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-11, 03:20   Link #1037
Excelion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
That Bach on the upper panel last page doesn't look like Bach at all and the expression is silly. Kind of bugs me.

I think the next stage of battle won't be in SS. Probably that Ice Palace. 0 squad will follow.

So what's Unohana going to do? Just heal everyone? So no one has to die except Yamamoto (and maybe Kira).

Regarding Aizen, I think Bach just left him alone too. Can't exactly kill him, being immortal and all.
Excelion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-11, 10:19   Link #1038
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelion View Post
So what's Unohana going to do? Just heal everyone? So no one has to die except Yamamoto (and maybe Kira).
of course anything can happen, but kubo made sure to eradicate the bodies of not just yamamoto but also byakuya so that they are almost certainly gone forever. byakuya was just a blood stain when as nodt was done with him. it's pretty rough, but there's no alternative really since kubo has had characters return from such fatal-looking injuries that it became silly. now it's like, unless they are a puddle, they can be revived.
itachi-san314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-11, 10:44   Link #1039
Hisoka??
Ultra noob
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Would be interesting to see the reactions if next chapter, it shows Bach waking in front of Aizen with Aizen mocking him for his day dreams of success. He did pay a visit to the supreme illusionist afterall.
Hisoka?? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-10-11, 11:35   Link #1040
unameit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enishi316 View Post
Ok..this is crap at it's best. Kubo shows us after waiting for hundreds of chapters. His Banki..just for him to use it on a FAKE...THAN get it stolen and killed by 1 sword swipe....ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????????
yeah, agree with that.. it's also laziness from kubo.. he keeps mentioning sternitters are strong and can only be defeated with bankai but not even 1 evidence showing what kind of ability they have.. what we see here they just somehow managed to injure the captain with ease.. logically their speed and power should be shown in significant mode but did we witness it? no, just plain movement.. we just have to imagine it ourselves, eh..


most battles in bleach are so disappointing nowadays especially the ending..
unameit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bleach, chapter

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.