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Old 2012-10-11, 11:09   Link #161
Andrewthelord
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Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
According to the novel, it was because people would be depressed thinking about the other side and often fall into despair. Thus, they didn't mention their other lives as a faux pas.
and that's why so few of them were aiming to clearing the game. You must fight, and you must convince the others to fight, knowing that beating the game it's possible.

Thinking about war it's depressing, but if you are actually in a war, you have to focus on the enemy and fight the shit out of him.

That's what I think.
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Old 2012-10-11, 12:18   Link #162
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Andrewthelord View Post
and that's why so few of them were aiming to clearing the game. You must fight, and you must convince the others to fight, knowing that beating the game it's possible.

Thinking about war it's depressing, but if you are actually in a war, you have to focus on the enemy and fight the shit out of him.

That's what I think.
There were a myriad of factors, some are people who are just scared, when their life is on the line. A lot of the people here can talk the talk about what they do in a death RPG, but once you get there, it gets a lot more nervous.

Let me put it this way.

When I started WOW the first time, I was damn nervous from my experience at Everquest. Because in EQ there are hefty pentalities for death (including dangerous corpse run without gear, possible gear loss if you can't find the body, no auto map pointing to your corpse). I nearly freaked out when a level +2 of mine jumped me, because in EQ that could mean Epic corpse run.

It was until I hit level 10, died a few times then I calm down and started playing in a trend.

NOW, imagine that in a game with no respawn. Heck, if you are really curious, go play any MMO today (say WoW), in a PVP server that is fairly populated, and promise youself to delete your character if you die...even once.

Now you know what Kirto feel like And you still have the option to op out by either breaking that promise, or quit the game. In SAO, you can't quit


Also, think about the great dungon raid in WoW, Ragnos, one of the early raids. Hundreds, no thousands if not hundreds of thousands of players attempted the raid and get wiped and died. Would anyone would dare to attempt the raid if they were told they will die? Without any guidance, without anything?
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Old 2012-10-11, 13:22   Link #163
Andrewthelord
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this is different. In WOW (i played only LOTRO for some months in 2011, i wish i had some more time to spend) you can risk your life even in high level raids or tasks because you know you can respawn.

If you have only one life you must be more and more cautious, but this doesn't mean you have to hide and do nothing. You can give yourself the rule yellow zone = run away, and do everything for safety.

Like, level up a lot before doing tasks. Speaking of which, if you can beat a boss in a normal game at level 22, expect to be level 30 before doing it, and be always in groups.

It will take longer, but you'll have a lot of "top players" to fight boss and clearing the game.

By the way, i've never fought in a deadly MMORPG, so, I can't tell what i would do. If i do not turn crazy in the first place, i'd probably do the journalist thing, and think of myself like Soldier Joker in Full Metal Jacket.
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Old 2012-10-11, 14:32   Link #164
Vmem
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I think to put everything into perspective, let's take a look at the WW II era. essentially, everyone's trapped in a death game in the real world. many countries cowered in fear, including the US until pearl harbor. It's a natural instinct when the power of the enemy seems overwhelming and you're not sure if you can win even if you did put your life on the line and fought. I believe these's a similar sentiment here.

Do you fight for that slim chance of getting your old life back? or do you sit there and learn to deal and be content with what your life has transformed into? I believe the whole point of this LN series is to show us that there is a third way to look at things, the way Kirito, and probably many heroes of former wars have seen things.

That is, it's not a simple question of fighting your way to get back to the real world "or restoring the world to the way it was". It's about living in your time, the time of the war-zone, and do what you can to enjoy the little good things in life, and making sure the people around you aren't dying like flies. Many war heroes in the past thought this way as well. if you read any of their autobiographies, in the mist of battle, often it's not about honor or valor or saving your country, it's about getting you, and your bunk buddy lying next you, the fuck out of the trench alive to live another day. Asuna never lost sight of her goal of going back to the real world, Kirito? sometimes I'm not sure if he cared... he did say that he wouldn't mind running away with Asuna and just hide in a forest and life out their life that way. It was only when she pointed out that the life-span of their real bodies in the real world maybe limited that the need to clear the game became urgent. At the end of the day, given the choice between the real world and the virtual world, I think Kirito would be perfectly fine with the virtual one as long as all his friends are all there.

I don't think SAO is a show about the struggle to get back to the real world. One has to consider why Kyaba did this? and at some point one realizes that Kyaba's madness lies in that he wanted to be god, he wanted to create a new universe where real people lived real lives. and by trapping the players in SAO, in a way, he accomplished his goals. to an extent, the two years of Aincrad has become a permanent part of human history, at least for the 10,000 people involved
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Old 2012-10-11, 14:42   Link #165
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Andrewthelord View Post
this is different. In WOW (i played only LOTRO for some months in 2011, i wish i had some more time to spend) you can risk your life even in high level raids or tasks because you know you can respawn.

If you have only one life you must be more and more cautious, but this doesn't mean you have to hide and do nothing. You can give yourself the rule yellow zone = run away, and do everything for safety.

Like, level up a lot before doing tasks. Speaking of which, if you can beat a boss in a normal game at level 22, expect to be level 30 before doing it, and be always in groups.

It will take longer, but you'll have a lot of "top players" to fight boss and clearing the game.

By the way, i've never fought in a deadly MMORPG, so, I can't tell what i would do. If i do not turn crazy in the first place, i'd probably do the journalist thing, and think of myself like Soldier Joker in Full Metal Jacket.
....So how is this different from what I said?

Also, in a deadly MMO, it would be interesting to see how many people would attempt the boss, or dare to. Some simple end game raid boss would be down right deadly.

There wouldn't be many top players, because the death rate would be very high. Think of major WoW world first bosses. How did the raid team clear it? WIPE, WIPE, WIPE, watch battle blogs, playtest in BETA and get strategy.

How would you learn the fights if the 40 people who went in a head are all dead? SAO made the earlier level possible by letting people TP out, but then survivors would all be terrified, not feeling heroic.

What would be even deadlier are bugs. In SAO that Keiabh (or whatever the guy's name was) was a god like developer. If it happen with Blizzard's crew, god help us. Imagine Kirato dying at floor 10 because the boss had a glitch that regen to full health....forever, that wouldn't be rather LOL...since no one can even live report it
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Old 2012-10-11, 14:45   Link #166
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Vmem View Post
I think to put everything into perspective, let's take a look at the WW II era. essentially, everyone's trapped in a death game in the real world. many countries cowered in fear, including the US until pearl harbor. It's a natural instinct when the power of the enemy seems overwhelming and you're not sure if you can win even if you did put your life on the line and fought. I believe these's a similar sentiment here.

Do you fight for that slim chance of getting your old life back? or do you sit there and learn to deal and be content with what your life has transformed into? I believe the whole point of this LN series is to show us that there is a third way to look at things, the way Kirito, and probably many heroes of former wars have seen things.

That is, it's not a simple question of fighting your way to get back to the real world "or restoring the world to the way it was". It's about living in your time, the time of the war-zone, and do what you can to enjoy the little good things in life, and making sure the people around you aren't dying like flies. Many war heroes in the past thought this way as well. if you read any of their autobiographies, in the mist of battle, often it's not about honor or valor or saving your country, it's about getting you, and your bunk buddy lying next you, the fuck out of the trench alive to live another day. Asuna never lost sight of her goal of going back to the real world, Kirito? sometimes I'm not sure if he cared... he did say that he wouldn't mind running away with Asuna and just hide in a forest and life out their life that way. It was only when she pointed out that the life-span of their real bodies in the real world maybe limited that the need to clear the game became urgent. At the end of the day, given the choice between the real world and the virtual world, I think Kirito would be perfectly fine with the virtual one as long as all his friends are all there.

I don't think SAO is a show about the struggle to get back to the real world. One has to consider why Kyaba did this? and at some point one realizes that Kyaba's madness lies in that he wanted to be god, he wanted to create a new universe where real people lived real lives. and by trapping the players in SAO, in a way, he accomplished his goals. to an extent, the two years of Aincrad has become a permanent part of human history, at least for the 10,000 people involved
I still believe Kyaba had a major problem, being there was only 10K VR sets at start, most MMO need over 2 million subscribers to break even, I fail to even see how SAO would work economically. Maybe that is the reason he needed a death game to keep a "captive audience"

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Old 2012-10-11, 14:50   Link #167
Vmem
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Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
I still believe Kyaba had a major problem, being there was only 10K VR sets at start, most MMO need over 2 million subscribers to break even, I fail to even see how SAO would work economically. Maybe that is the reason he needed a death game to keep a "captive audience"

Well, I don't think he needed to break even considering his ultimate motives... Anyway, I think most MMOs are so expensive due to development costs... I think the LN kinda implies that Kyaba developed the whole thing, or the vast majority of it, himself >.< but still, why such a limit release? was he trying to weed out noobs and not let the town of beginners on level 1 get overcrowded?

Returning to one of your earlier points, I think you made a great point when you said that every when playing EQ, you have the option of logging out. this is exactly what made SAO a real world, it's not the fact that it's a death game that made it real, but the fact that you can't log out, or rather, you can't quit, just like how you can't quit life. thus:

bringing us back to the topic of this thread. for me, if I'm not allows to give up/quit and go do something else, I feel like I might as well make something good out of the situation... glass cannon DPS build FTW! hope I don't die early, but even if I do, I'll die knowing that I probably took something down with me :P
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Old 2012-10-11, 17:07   Link #168
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Vmem View Post
Well, I don't think he needed to break even considering his ultimate motives... Anyway, I think most MMOs are so expensive due to development costs... I think the LN kinda implies that Kyaba developed the whole thing, or the vast majority of it, himself >.< but still, why such a limit release? was he trying to weed out noobs and not let the town of beginners on level 1 get overcrowded?

Returning to one of your earlier points, I think you made a great point when you said that every when playing EQ, you have the option of logging out. this is exactly what made SAO a real world, it's not the fact that it's a death game that made it real, but the fact that you can't log out, or rather, you can't quit, just like how you can't quit life. thus:

bringing us back to the topic of this thread. for me, if I'm not allows to give up/quit and go do something else, I feel like I might as well make something good out of the situation... glass cannon DPS build FTW! hope I don't die early, but even if I do, I'll die knowing that I probably took something down with me :P
I don't think weeding out noobs was even being considered, given you had newbie like Asuna who would died horribly if not for Kirito's save that one time (where she was soloing a dungeon with bosses giving out paralyze).

Remember, there were 4,000 dead, and a lot was at the early levels and not on raids or PVP. I think Kayba only had ~10,000 units at release (and I am still surprised how he was able to make 10K of them without a engineer monkey somewhere realizing this was a death trap)

I think the author goofed, he would had much better of a story if there was millions of players who got the game, but only a specific 10K was on this "Death server"

I wouldn't pick glass-cannon build in a game like SAO. I rather be able to survive the hits (heavy tanking) or able to stay at range. Since soon or later the RNG God will come calling, and I rather not be caught with schoolgirl panties like armor when that happen.

Also, development cost is one part of it. But a much bigger day to day chunk is the server/IT cost. As the Controller of a Technology/Data provider, a HUGE chunk of our budget goes to IT. And all we do is provide Text/Data to our clients, something like WoW the IT cost, with all the graphic/sound trimming would be immense. For games like SAO with flavors/brainwave data/smell/feel, the mind just freaken boggles on how hard it would to maintain just 10K players.
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Old 2012-10-11, 18:14   Link #169
Vmem
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Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Also, development cost is one part of it. But a much bigger day to day chunk is the server/IT cost. As the Controller of a Technology/Data provider, a HUGE chunk of our budget goes to IT. And all we do is provide Text/Data to our clients, something like WoW the IT cost, with all the graphic/sound trimming would be immense. For games like SAO with flavors/brainwave data/smell/feel, the mind just freaken boggles on how hard it would to maintain just 10K players.
Kyaba's server/IT maintenance cost is essentially zero. as soon as he announces that it's a death game to the outside world, the government gets to pick up the tab... maybe this is why he had to announce it on day one? lol
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Old 2012-10-11, 20:15   Link #170
ArchmageXin
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Kyaba's server/IT maintenance cost is essentially zero. as soon as he announces that it's a death game to the outside world, the government gets to pick up the tab... maybe this is why he had to announce it on day one? lol

It was probably more than that. The 10K player that would need heavy medical assistance would be down right astronomical (I.E Liquid diet, nurse to clean up body to maintain hiyegine, then physical therapy recovery program once those guys finally log off cause their muscles would be mush)

Something like this could lead to immense expense to the tunes of hundreds of millions of dollars (If it happened in the USA), and in a year or two even crazy politicians might demand they all get cut off.
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