2012-10-12, 07:19
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Link #881 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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Meh...the problem with the author aiming so hard for Raku x Chitoge from the get go just takes away any and all possible suspense and drama out of the equation for me.
To me it's already set in stone that Raku x Chitoge is the final pairing so anything that happens in between is just a wasted attempt at drama. This is what happens when an author pushes so damn hard for a certain pairing since the beginning... |
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2012-10-12, 07:24
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Link #882 |
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Itadaki-nyaaa !!
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I dunno about the series going for much longer...
We've gone from "stupid beansprout!" (status quo) to "I'm an idiot." (heroine realizes her feelings) within like 3 chapters. I may be wrong but to me this romantic development seems very fast paced compared to the chapters before. 80-100 chapters total? Doubling the existing number now? That'd probably mean at least 35 more chapters of the protagonist being oblivious of any of the girls' feelings (yay  ). It would also mean Chitoge's development coming to an abrupt halt and the establishment of another status quo, which to me seems like an awkward way of writing character development into the plot.
Last edited by Waven; 2012-10-12 at 07:53. |
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2012-10-12, 08:34
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Link #883 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 27
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Randrak42 but thats how love usually work, doesnt it? Its not ....... contest to pleasure audience or shippers waiting to get sth to troll on forums...
Waven Chitoge feelings for him started to develop almost from begining... In last 3 chapters she realized her own feelings, but thats normal for tsundere, isnt it? Quote:
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2012-10-12, 11:42
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Link #884 | |
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LeaDfactor
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hungary, Budapest
Age: 22
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*snore snore* |
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2012-10-12, 12:30
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Link #885 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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I'm all for setting up a couple from the get go, but not how this author has done it. Here we have a harem like scenario with various girls but only one of them is truly being set up to be the end girl and it is practically shoved in our faces. Matching up a couple from the start doesn't work so well in harem series, VNs included. God, I can't tell you how annoying it is in VNs when the makers keep pushing one pairing in your face when you just want to go through a different route. Setting up a final couple from the start can work well. A good recent example of a couple being set up from the start was Magico, though the manga ended prematurely (IMHO) the whole relationship between Shion and Emma was great and when a love rival for either one appeared the readers did feel the relationship being threatened. An example of a certain pairing being set up from the beginning but them only getting together later on is Change 123 (I chose this mostly because I re-read the whole series recently) where you knew that Kosukegawa and Motoko set up from the start but for a few chapters you actually feel threatened when Mokoto has a crush on another guy and when another chick shows up later on and hits on the MC you actually feel that it could create good drama (and it did). Here...there's no feeling of threat in the whole thing because while it is a harem Chitoge gets so much more screen-time and development it's ridiculous, nothing can happen with another girl without Chitoge either being around or her having something happen right after of the same level. Think Rosario+Vampire...TsukuneXMoka is shoved in our faces so much that the rest of the harem is just there for the lols (and fighting later on) there's never any threat to the relationship. It would have been much, much better IMHO had the author distributed character development and screen-time amongst the girls while dropping only subtle hints that Chitoge was ahead. Weird as it may sound, To-Love-Ru did this rather well. It was a pure comedy harem manga, Lala was believed to be the final girl for a while at the start but as things went on we had other girls get as much screen-time and development as her, if not more at times. Before Darkness, it was still in the back of most people's minds that Lala would be the final girl but the mix of comedy and other girls being in the picture (and by being in the picture I mean getting center stage WITHOUT Lala showing up or getting further ahead right after) kept things fresh...hell plenty of times did I think "He could actually end up with her instead of Lala."...this became even better in Darkness. So yes, it's not about how love works...it's about how you tell the story. |
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2012-10-12, 13:50
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Link #886 |
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I never asked for this
Join Date: Sep 2012
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The fokus of this manga was never really about the harem anyway.
There are harem mangas like To-Love-Ru and harem mangas like Love Hina. Nisekoi was since the beginning like Love Hina. It was never question of who he ends up because it was already clear. The question was and still is the how. TLR and Nisekoi have only one thing in common and that is that a couple of girls like the hero and i'm glad that it is not more. |
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2012-10-12, 14:40
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Link #887 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 27
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This manga is more like love triangle then harem... Mari came to play late and... I didnt saw even subtle sign that Raku is interested in her for sth more then just friend. Developing this relationship would me meaningless...
Randrak42 but in this manga it would be impossible to do. Its not like Kimi where influence of Eba on Haruto was that big then even if Haruto would date Nanami seriously then it would still not work out for them and Haruto would end up with Eba in the end... In this manga just one little step from Raku or Kosaki and it would be END OF STORY... Just one little conversation, few worlds that she is interesting in him or he in her and they would enp up together... Now ofc its too late for it, Raku is in love wirh Chitoge, but earlier any kind of development between Kosaki and Raku would end this manga... Author cannot make any steps here, because love between them was already on stone. What did you expect? Ofc author could just write more scenes with just only two of them, but it would change nothing. Because it will be same cliche situations and status quo between them will still last. In most manga with characters in situation like Raku and Kosaki one of them or both isnt still sure about their feelings. But in Nisekoi both of them from begining of manga knew what are their feelings... Thats why any kind of development between them means end of manga...
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2012-10-12, 15:39
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Link #888 | ||
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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Yes, from the beginning the author made Naru the main girl and the most obvious choice for final girl...but then again Keitaro didn't come into the story already in love with another girl, he came in as a blank slate (as opposed to TLR). Raku came in already in love with someone else, however the author barely played with it seriously...none of the situations with Kosaki so far have pushed me into thinking that he could actually end up with her and this is wasted potential. The story doesn't need huge drama, it can stay comical and shounen but also play with Raku x Kosaki a bit more...make the readers think, even for a second, that she has a chance. This would greatly improve on the story and make more people interested in it. I know a lot of people that have dropped this manga saying something along the line "Chitoge's already the clear winner and no girl is a threat, what's left is cliche shounen humor." I rather like cliche shounen humor sometimes which is why I stuck around, not because I have any interest in the romance anymore. Quote:
If Raku and Kosaki started dating but he still had some lingering feelings for Chitoge it would actually make for an interesting plot... And cliche situations? Like we don't have plenty...almost too many of those already? This manga and manga like this one are build on cliche situations...it only thing it's missing is more stereotypical clumsy MC tripping over girls and ending up in awkward positions. As for it being a Love-Triangle and not a harem manga...no it is a harem manga, just because other girls come in later doesn't take away the fact that it has become a harem manga. If the only two characters with feelings for Raku were Kosaki and Chitoge and the other girls were not interested/interested in someone else then yes, this would be a plain love-triangle but not here. |
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2012-10-12, 16:03
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Link #889 | |
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I never asked for this
Join Date: Sep 2012
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I have nothing against cliché-ridden storries as long they can entertain me and that is clearly the case with this manga. This was never meant to be like one of those stories where people need to guess with who the protagonist will end up. From the beginning it was clear for me that it will be an Chitoge end. Rakus crush on Onodera was just something to not let him hook up with Chitoges too fast and it was somthing he will overcome after he realized which girl he really liked. |
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2012-10-12, 16:19
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Link #890 | |
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75% M
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 25
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Saying this can't be entertaining is like saying a "howdecatchthem" detective story can't be entertaining because you know from the start who the criminal is.
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2012-10-13, 07:18
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Link #891 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 27
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Randrak42 but Chitoge and Raku arent dating for real. And Kosaki already know that fact. And between them there wasnt any feelings in begining. If Kosaki and Raku would date in begining of series then it would be impossible for any girl to interrupt. because it was mutual feeling... Thats why it would be end of series...
Yes Raku and Kosaki dating would make sense- but only now when Raku develop feelings for Chitoge and Chitoge knew whats her real feelings are... It would be interesting... But we are talking here about past, not about current situation!! Earlier relationship between Raku and Kosaki would mean end of series... Not others girls, but only one girl- Mari... Its 3 girls in total... In end you can call it love triangle manga which change into harem... But its harem manga only in name... If you look only at chemistry between characters and feelings development between them then this manga is love triangle... Serious plot happen only between Kosaki- Raku- Chitoge...
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2012-10-13, 08:12
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Link #892 | |||
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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I never said it couldn't be obvious that Chitoge was the final girl...I'm just saying that it would have been better for the story (for me at least) if the author focused on the other girls a bit more and made us doubt that fact at least once. To me the romance side of this RomCom series has become incredibly boring, I'm really just here for the Comedy side by now. Quote:
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Raku and Chitoge being a pretend couple to keep a war from happening and all the while Raku was dating Kosaki for real. The time Raku spent with Chitoge pretending to date could easily allow for feelings to develop between the two making Raku torn between his two loves...add comedy and done well and it wouldn't even have to be that serious to be played out well. Just because two characters are dating doesn't mean Raku couldn't start to develop feelings for another girl, especially in the situation they were in. Tell you the truth now that I think about it, I much rather the story had developed like that than as it did. But hey, it could still happen so here's to me hoping for it. You're forgetting Tsugumi, that's four girls with a romantic interest in the MC. It doesn't matter if there's only any real development between two or three characters, it still is a Harem. Love Hina doesn't stop being a harem just because Naru and Keitaro's relationship develops more than the others. Ai Kora doesn't stop being a harem just because Sakurako and Hachibei's relationship is the only one with real development. TLR doesn't stop being a harem just because Lala and Rito get most of the relationship development (and then Rito, Yami and Momo in Darkness). HSDK doesn't stop being a harem just because Miu and Kenichi are the only ones with any real romantic development. Rosario+Vampire doesn't stop being a harem just because Moka and Tsukune are the only ones with any mutual romantic interest. Highschool DxD doesn't stop being a harem just because only Rias and Issei's relationship gets any real focus. And so on...then again we're just arguing about a little technicality... |
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2012-10-13, 09:30
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Link #893 | |
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75% M
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 25
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 I would definatly have found this concept interesting.
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2012-10-13, 10:00
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Link #894 | |
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I never asked for this
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Do you seriously read TLR for the romance aspect? |
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2012-10-13, 10:30
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Link #895 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 27
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Randrak42 but in most harem manga their is at least any development between MC and other girls... In Nisekoi development between Raku and Tsugumi or Mari was just only in first 1,2 chapters with them. After that there is nothing more. Ofc both girls fall in love with him more and more, but there is nothing from Raku... Im not talking that its not harem manga... It is, but only in name... If you focus only on romance part then its more love triangle that harem...
You forgot that Raku and Kosaki had mutual love in begining of series... Really if they would start dating it would be impossible for Chitoge to join the game... Gang wars, their parents, Mari, Tsugumi, that guy from Chitoge gang- nothing would matters... If Raku would know that his felings for Kosaki is mutual nothing would stop him from dating Kosaki and it would be end of manga- he is this kind of guy... Somewhere after Chitoge birthday party manga started to have place for Kosaki development. But still it could be done only really careful and slowly- to not destroy all development Raku got with Chitoge... And only now Raku and Kosaki can start dating with Chitoge still in game... It would be interesting... Earlier with Raku personalty any bigger development with Kosaki would destroy any chances for other girls to get him. Thats why it was hard for author to make any moves there... It would be interesting if Romeo and Juliet play would be big development between Raku and Kosaki. But thats probably will never happen...
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2012-10-13, 10:35
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Link #896 | |||
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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TLR may not look like it with that mask of semi-gag and pure ecchi but when it gets actual plots going it knows what it does and does it well. Quote:
If you focus only on the romance part you can very well take away Kosaki's part cause she as much a background haremett as the other three by now. Quote:
And by your logic...if Raku was dating Kosaki by the time Chitoge showed up, he would refuse to pretend to date her...thus inciting a gang war between the two groups? Because that is clearly the kind of guy that Raku is...he would always sacrifice everyone else, even the lives of his "family" for his one true love... I'll be over there banging my head against the wall... Last edited by Randrak42; 2012-10-13 at 11:24. |
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2012-10-13, 12:44
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Link #897 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 27
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Funny, you make list with examples of worst harem manga ever (ok Love Hina is average and Ai Kora could be good if not for end, but with this end its worthless sh1t) and its for you representation of harem genre which includes hundreds of titles? Good harem manga have developments with more then 1 girl. And isnt it what you was looking for? Manga with development with more then one girl and subtle sign that one of them will win in the end, isnt it? Compare it wih series like Seitokai no Ichizon, Fujimura-kun Mates, Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai- see difference? Omg we are talking here about fictional work, not about real people. MC in romances manga are specific. Raku isnt sb normal if he would date Kosaki from begining then it would be impossible to develop STRONGER feelings for Chitoge. Talking about others girls is useless, because even without relationship with Kosaki he still feel nothing more then friendship towards Mari or Tsugumi... Quote:
I never said that even if he would start relationship with Kosaki from begining (just being sure that its mutual feeling for them would be enough, they not need to start dating immediately) then he would not start fake relationship with Chitoge(only to prevent gang wars). I just said that in this situation even if he would develop any feelings toward Chitoge then it would be impossible for them to burgeon. See that even now its really hard for Raku to understand his real feelings... Then imagine how hard it would be if he would be mutual relationship with Kosaki for long time...
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Last edited by Dorsai; 2012-10-13 at 13:15. |
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2012-10-13, 14:32
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Link #898 | |||||
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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I consider the manga I named to be rather good as well as the ones you mentioned (Though I haven't read Fujimura-kun Mates, have been meaning too though...) so who are you to tell me that the examples I listed are bad just because you didn't like them? Hell, Love Hina and Ai Kora were two of my favorite Harem manga. Same goes for what makes a series a good or bad harem series. Some people think that shoving a bunch of girls in your face is enough, others believe deep relationships between the girls is most important. Personally I'm in between...hey I like a "large selection" of goodies but also a bit more of a connection with the girls but it varies on a case by case basis. Highschool DxD for example, the only real relationship development is between Rias and Issei yet it is played out well, we know from the beginning that he'll end up with Rias but it doesn't take away from the plot because the author does it well (And yes, hard to believe but I also watch read Highschool DxD for the plot D: OMG!). Quote:
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And again...not impossible. I'm done arguing with you...it's obvious that neither of us will change our minds on the matter and continuing this will only lead to headaches and wasted time. Make your last counter argument as you wish...I'm not really going to respond anyway. |
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2012-10-13, 21:35
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Link #899 | ||||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Poland
Age: 27
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I come back from all night club party (ofc i drink a lot), then my answers can be not perfect ;p
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I really liked AI Kora. It was good series with good development. And really you cant said that development in this series with other girls then Tenmaku was worser then in Nisekoi... MC develop feelings towars Tenmaku really late in series... But i really hate how author ended this manga... Everything was closed perfectly and author just destroy all in last chapter. I cant forgive him it... And Love Hina... It was probably my first harem manga i ever read... And i liked this series... But its mostly only sentimental feelings... If you want to be obiective then this series is average, at best... Quote:
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| open the damn pendant, romantic comedy, school life, shounen, slice of life |
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