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Old 2012-10-13, 03:44   Link #61
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
That's the problem...why must it even be defended?

You like what I like, I like what I like...if sometimes those likes overlap all the better.

The way all those people get instantly blasted for their likings is....stupid? After all, it's not like they shove it in your faces unlike say....K-On......

Hell if you interact more with them there's much in common interest-wise I usually find...
I don't think it needs to be defended, nor do I think it should be (much as I don't think Smut, Ecchi or Hentai should be defended either). If Yaoi floats a person's boat, that's fine, so long as people aren't pretending their interest in it goes beyond watching two men bang each other (okay it's a little more complicated then that, but not much more complicated).

Defending Yaoi is like defending Pornography, Smut or Erotica. It's indefensible.

I've read Smut and Erotica. Do I enjoy it? Sure, I wouldn't otherwise read it. But I don't talk about it. And that's why I think Fujoshis rub people the wrong way, they're obsessed with pairing characters, Yaoi, and steamy pages, and not much else. It's a culture built on the obscene. You talk to guys and they don't start comparing notes on porn or hentai (at least not the ones I know). Ecchi is about on the same level as Yaoi, and I wouldn't be so keen on spending time with the people obsessed with that either.

At least Moe is not so brazenly sexual in it's intent. Moe is easier to compare to two girls discussing why a particular character is cute, whereas Yaoi is all about girls discussing about how they wish this guy would finally pop that guy's cherry.
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Old 2012-10-13, 05:57   Link #62
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I've read Smut and Erotica. Do I enjoy it? Sure, I wouldn't otherwise read it. But I don't talk about it. And that's why I think Fujoshis rub people the wrong way, they're obsessed with pairing characters, Yaoi, and steamy pages, and not much else. It's a culture built on the obscene. You talk to guys and they don't start comparing notes on porn or hentai (at least not the ones I know). Ecchi is about on the same level as Yaoi, and I wouldn't be so keen on spending time with the people obsessed with that either.

At least Moe is not so brazenly sexual in it's intent. Moe is easier to compare to two girls discussing why a particular character is cute, whereas Yaoi is all about girls discussing about how they wish this guy would finally pop that guy's cherry.
I don't know... we do have threads to discuss eroge (though I suppose the conversation usually centers on something other than the "porn", or the porn-driven games), and some of the light novels/manga (and some of the anime) that people discuss are pretty darn explicit. Obviously we don't allow straight up "adult content" on this site, but I think people do talk about it. I'm not sure that it's so healthy to be so ashamed about it either, or that there's nothing worth really talking about because it's "indefensible". Perhaps bringing this sort of topic up when it's contextually inappropriate or whatever might rightfully annoy, but it seems a bit... I don't know... repressive? to argue that people can have whatever fantasies they want but "just don't talk about it because it's undignified". Part of me wants to say that's all the more reason to talk about it. In fact, perhaps that's part of the reason we have fujoshi in the first place; the more vulgar the fantasy, the more it goes against what the stereotypical "good girl" is supposed to think/say.
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Old 2012-10-13, 06:10   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I've read Smut and Erotica. Do I enjoy it? Sure, I wouldn't otherwise read it. But I don't talk about it. And that's why I think Fujoshis rub people the wrong way, they're obsessed with pairing characters, Yaoi, and steamy pages, and not much else. It's a culture built on the obscene. You talk to guys and they don't start comparing notes on porn or hentai (at least not the ones I know). Ecchi is about on the same level as Yaoi, and I wouldn't be so keen on spending time with the people obsessed with that either.
This seems appropriate.



Dean: You don't... watch porn in a room full of dudes. And you don't talk about it!


But ah, we do, we do talk about it.
Unfortunately we also share room here with squimish audiences that screams mommy! at the slightest sight of so-called "fan service" as well, so it's somewhat understandable that what's appropriate to one isn't appropriate to another.

When I'm confronted with unnecessary long yaoi content, or fangirls going "OMG@#)(*)(EWR@!+RER!!!" I usually resort to rolling my eyes and skipping content, or skipping posts talking about it. And quite frankly, they should do the same to MY smut content, namely immature fan-service tasteless ecchi content, thank you very much.
Stay off my lawn, and I stay off theirs, right? Right.
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Old 2012-10-13, 06:24   Link #64
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I don't know... we do have threads to discuss eroge (though I suppose the conversation usually centers on something other than the "porn", or the porn-driven games), and some of the light novels/manga (and some of the anime) that people discuss are pretty darn explicit. Obviously we don't allow straight up "adult content" on this site, but I think people do talk about it. I'm not sure that it's so healthy to be so ashamed about it either, or that there's nothing worth really talking about because it's "indefensible". Perhaps bringing this sort of topic up when it's contextually inappropriate or whatever might rightfully annoy, but it seems a bit... I don't know... repressive? to argue that people can have whatever fantasies they want but "just don't talk about it because it's undignified". Part of me wants to say that's all the more reason to talk about it. In fact, perhaps that's part of the reason we have fujoshi in the first place; the more vulgar the fantasy, the more it goes against what the stereotypical "good girl" is supposed to think/say.
Nothing wrong with having the fantasy. But building a subculture around a sexual fantasy just seems distasteful to me and, frankly, boring. I only think of my sexual fantasies at one time and that's when I'm doing the deed. They are quite dull otherwise. Fujoshis obsess about them outside of when they're "doing the deed", and that's why I find them unpleasant to be with.

But as I said, if you have that fetish, nothing wrong. I just think it's dysfunctional when your hobbies revolve around your fetishes.

Likewise I find people obsessed with BDSM, swingers and people who are a bit too keen on sex in general to be at best dull. It's a private and intimate thing. I don't think people should be afraid to talk about it, but I don't think people should spend an inordinate amount of time on it either.
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Old 2012-10-13, 07:09   Link #65
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Nothing wrong with having the fantasy. But building a subculture around a sexual fantasy just seems distasteful to me and, frankly, boring. I only think of my sexual fantasies at one time and that's when I'm doing the deed. They are quite dull otherwise. Fujoshis obsess about them outside of when they're "doing the deed", and that's why I find them unpleasant to be with.

But as I said, if you have that fetish, nothing wrong. I just think it's dysfunctional when your hobbies revolve around your fetishes.
I think there's an element to this you may not be considering. This sort of thing may not even necessarily be each fujoshi's "personal sexual fantasy" at all, but just the sort of lingua franca of the subculture. People don't necessarily want to talk about their personal fantasies because they're revealing and embarrassing, but they may argue all the time about their favourite pairings in fiction because it's part of their fan identity. Even if it has its roots in something "vulgar", it comes to take on a different sort of meaning. (Whether you find them "unpleasant to be with" as a result is notwithstanding.)

That aside... your attitude about sex and related issues strikes me as very... stereotypical male. It's very... practical? (There are oh so many puns that could be used here...) Well, now that we've given the fujoshis more to fantasize about, we'd probably better leave it here...

(When Midonin wanted us to talk more about the fujoshi angle of his question, I'm not sure if this was exactly the foreseen destination...)
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Old 2012-10-13, 07:46   Link #66
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Another thing saying Yaoi just equals smut is 100 % not true. All you have to do is go on tumblr and look up a few popular series with fujoshi and you can see this right away. Of course a lot of it is smut but Yaoi is not exclusively smut. As Relentlessflame mentioned a lot of what I see from fujoshi is more akin to "shipping".

I mean yeah I think some fujoshi are annoying when they tell me I just don't see the obvious subtext that so & so are actually a couple but if they just enjoy something I don't I say let them be.
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Old 2012-10-13, 07:57   Link #67
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I think there's a gap between the "yuri fandom" DonQuigleone is talking about and the one others are talking about.

DQ is talking about "yuri fandom" that watches animes like Aoi Hana and Sasameki Koto while others are talking about the "yuri fandom" that watches Rinne no Lagrange or hentais like Shoujo Sect

Those aren't always the same people
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Old 2012-10-13, 08:50   Link #68
Midonin
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Stay off my lawn, and I stay off theirs, right? Right.
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
(When Midonin wanted us to talk more about the fujoshi angle of his question, I'm not sure if this was exactly the foreseen destination...)
No, it wasn't. And the thing is that it seems to extend to the fictional fujoshi as much as the real ones. I remember the reactions that Nakuru from Mayo Chiki! kept getting up until the very last episode, while I was one of the few who liked her from the beginning, for a clear reason - she's also a secondary content creator. Sure, her content is BL, but she's an artist who expresses herself, and while that might not mean much in the days of the internet when everyone has a pixiv account, she also publishes and distributes and is passionate about her art. That's how I feel about the real ones, too.

I may not read anything they write, but I am damn sure going to defend their right to keep making it. Expressing your fandom and your tastes through something you create yourself is a great thing, and a good way to find out something about how a person thinks. (This last part isn't always pleasant, but I've been in the interests of being open minded.) And that all goes back to my opening statements - rather than dismissing fangirls, learning a thing or two from them might not be such a bad idea. You can still do serious analysis and write a fanfic about two girls who you think should be doing each other and not have one cancel out the other. People are multidimensional, and so are fandoms.
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Old 2012-10-13, 14:51   Link #69
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No, it wasn't. And the thing is that it seems to extend to the fictional fujoshi as much as the real ones. I remember the reactions that Nakuru from Mayo Chiki! kept getting up until the very last episode, while I was one of the few who liked her from the beginning, for a clear reason - she's also a secondary content creator. Sure, her content is BL, but she's an artist who expresses herself, and while that might not mean much in the days of the internet when everyone has a pixiv account, she also publishes and distributes and is passionate about her art. That's how I feel about the real ones, too.

I may not read anything they write, but I am damn sure going to defend their right to keep making it. Expressing your fandom and your tastes through something you create yourself is a great thing, and a good way to find out something about how a person thinks. (This last part isn't always pleasant, but I've been in the interests of being open minded.) And that all goes back to my opening statements - rather than dismissing fangirls, learning a thing or two from them might not be such a bad idea. You can still do serious analysis and write a fanfic about two girls who you think should be doing each other and not have one cancel out the other. People are multidimensional, and so are fandoms.
My point is, and I'm not sure if you got it, is that you can't force people to want to reach out to something they are not interested in it. There's nothing wrong with not being interested in another medium or genre. There's no problem with people of different taste respecting each other, while staying off their grass.

If I show no interest in Country Music, but don't do anything to bash it in front of someone who likes it, then it's only courtious they do the same to music I like. You can't go "OH! OH! You're so narorw minded for not liking Country muisc, how dare you you bigot! HERE! LISTEN! LIKE IT!".

Does that make sense?
There's nothing I said that goes against expressing your taste or art.
I'm talking about, if you want to express your thingy, don't diss other people's thingy. Capiche?
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Old 2012-10-13, 20:30   Link #70
Triple_R
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Honestly, I never really understood getting annoyed over fan-works.

Well, occasionally fanworks will take on a life of its own, and start to predominate a fandom in a way where it can get annoying for people that are in the fandom but not particularly keen on a particular fanwork (for example, I'm a big Madoka Magica fan, but I'm not keen on the "perverted Homura" meme, and so that meme really has come to annoy me a bit). But for 90% or more of the fanworks out there, they're easy enough to ignore, so it honestly really is a metaphorical case of "just change the channel if you're not liking it".

And I personally haven't seen a "fanworks take on a life of its own" with fujoshi fanworks in a long, long time. Even with Tiger and Bunny, I never felt much desire to search for fan images of the show, so I largely avoided all the yaoi imagery surrounding it.

Perhaps I've just been lucky here, but I honestly don't see fujoshis causing problems in general anime fandoms, so I'm not sure why they would get so much heat. I mean, if fujoshis were constantly shipping bizarre all-male pairings in popular anime titles, and insisting on those pairings on message boards like this one, then yeah, I could see that getting quite tiresome. But honestly I haven't seen anything like that since... NaruSasu in Naruto, and I was never that big of a Naruto fan anyway.
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Old 2012-10-13, 20:37   Link #71
Midonin
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Honestly, I never really understood getting annoyed over fan-works.
I think I place more value on fan works than some other people, simply because of what they represent. The best ones are like a "thank you" to the show, giving back as much as the show gave to them. What their content is can range from good to bad and everything in between (like the shows themselves), but I find them as much part of a show's identity as the actual canon material. A particularly strong fan community can extend the life of a show for several years, and strong secondary content creators are part of that.

I realize my original statements might have been about two different groups (consumers and creators), but in the best cases, these groups can overlap.
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Old 2012-10-13, 20:47   Link #72
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I think I place more value on fan works than some other people, simply because of what they represent.
Well, don't get me wrong, I think that fanworks are great.

For a couple years, I was massively into AMVs. I made about 100 myself (mind you, only a couple were anything fancy, since I was using Windows Movie Maker ). and watched likely hundreds of other AMVs.

I used to search DeviantArt regularly for images of my favorite anime shows/characters, and I found a lot to love there. Nowadays I surf the booru sites from time to time.

I've completed one major anime fanfic (The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya), and am most of the way through a second (Madoka Magica: Pure Pink Pretty Lovers).

So yeah, I think that fanworks are awesome in general. But for the ones I don't like, they're usually easy to ignore.

I definitely think that fanworks have done way more good than bad for the anime industry, and for the anime fandom. I don't see a problem with fujoshis having their slice of that fanworks pie, even if I don't check it out myself (I did do a semi-comedic yaoi AMV once though, based on how amusing I found it).
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Old 2012-10-13, 20:50   Link #73
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That aside... your attitude about sex and related issues strikes me as very... stereotypical male. It's very... practical? (There are oh so many puns that could be used here...) Well, now that we've given the fujoshis more to fantasize about, we'd probably better leave it here...
Can't say I can speak much for how male and female sexuality differ.

For me, I have only two states. I'm either thinking from below, or from above, never in between. I'm either drooling over boobies, or contemplating philosophy. There isn't really a middle ground. I'm even attracted to different women in those two states. Given that I'm only in a state of arousal once or twice a day, I tend to think with my head, and keep that other side private.

After climax it's interesting how quickly my mood changes, I almost immediately lose all interest in anything sexual.

Can't really say what it's like for other men.

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I think there's a gap between the "yuri fandom" DonQuigleone is talking about and the one others are talking about.

DQ is talking about "yuri fandom" that watches animes like Aoi Hana and Sasameki Koto while others are talking about the "yuri fandom" that watches Rinne no Lagrange or hentais like Shoujo Sect

Those aren't always the same people
That is true, but I think in talking about Yuri/Yaoi it's more helpful to avoid hentai, which is an entire category in itself.

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Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
I may not read anything they write, but I am damn sure going to defend their right to keep making it. Expressing your fandom and your tastes through something you create yourself is a great thing, and a good way to find out something about how a person thinks. (This last part isn't always pleasant, but I've been in the interests of being open minded.) And that all goes back to my opening statements - rather than dismissing fangirls, learning a thing or two from them might not be such a bad idea. You can still do serious analysis and write a fanfic about two girls who you think should be doing each other and not have one cancel out the other. People are multidimensional, and so are fandoms.
Sure, I just think that only writing about pairing is a bit limited, and vulgar. If they can write to a high standard, more power to them. I just don't like what they write.

The squeeing and glomping doesn't help either.
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Old 2012-10-13, 21:30   Link #74
GDiddy
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I like what I like; you like what you like. Or, as an old saying goes, 'one person's trash is another person's treasure'.

And as for the Japanese and otaku overall...I just go by what I read on other sites, mainly sites like ANN. I don't know what otaku are like over there. I've never been to Japan. I only go by observations from other sites.

And not all of us female fans are crazy and yaoi-obsessed who surf deviantart and pixiv. I don't mind yaoi...but for the most part, I'm not a fan of it. I'm not a major fan of yuri either, but I do find that the yuri series I know of seem to be better written than yaoi series.

I guess I do have to admit that I like looking for art of certain characters...and I have dabbled in fanfic. It's a good way to challenge myself...or at least I think it is; how can I keep my story true to the creator's vision without it spinning into Mary/Gary Stu territory?

And there's nothing wrong with shipping people...though I seriously hate the ones that insist 'MY SHIPPING IS OTP!' Maybe it's me, but I do it out of fun.
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Old 2012-10-13, 21:45   Link #75
DonQuigleone
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And there's nothing wrong with shipping people...though I seriously hate the ones that insist 'MY SHIPPING IS OTP!' Maybe it's me, but I do it out of fun.
Shipping is fine "for fun". Even I was shipping when I watched Macross Frontier (for him to end out with the VF-25, turns out I was right...)
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Old 2012-10-14, 08:29   Link #76
Cosmic Eagle
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Who wouldn't want to end up with a fighter aircraft.....

best end ever
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:08   Link #77
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Some interesting discussions here! To go back to Midonin's original point I'll be more careful about how I express myself in future. It occurs to me that I've used phrases such as "otaku-pandering moeblob" and "otaku-bait" in the past when I should have said something like "I fear someone on the production committee is adding an element to this series that doesn't, in my opinion, improve it, and that I personally find somewhat irritating, in the belief that it will appeal to stereotypical otaku". In other words I don't have a problem with otaku, but rather the tendency when making a show to go for the perceived lowest common denominator in the market. Understandable in our current difficult economic times but sometimes they try too hard and end up with something that really is an insult to otaku. According to Midonin's division of fans I would fall into the otaku class anyway. (Although I am that semi-mythical creature, the fan who has bought both the original Gundam film trilogy and is eagerly anticipating the release of the second series of K-On!! in the UK).

As for fujoshi, no problem. There are probably some long and interesting discussions about homophobia, misogyny and what each of us finds acceptable or not in erotic fiction to be had in other threads. The point for this thread is, if someone enjoys a show in a different way and for different reasons than you, does that, should that, stop you enjoying it? If your answer is yes, I can't see that that's their fault.

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Old 2013-03-28, 23:28   Link #78
Midonin
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It's been a while, and my old thread is the best place to go. Both of these posts are from this forum, but I've removed the names, because I want to focus on what was said rather than who said it.

Quote:
I feel it's more that Girls und Panzer was made this way because that's what the creators wanted rather than them thinking this would be what viewers were interested in. The previews and the first episode seem to be purposefully set up like a lot of those other cute girls doing cute things shows to sucker viewers in.
Quote:
The 3rd episode is when [Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo] delved into something much more than just generic harem anime fanservice-fest, imo.

It might be sad to say, but I think marketing is the answer for why the first two episodes are the way they are.

"Let's hook in the biggest fanservice fans first, and then see who else we can pick up through good character drama and romance." - Production Member A

"Agreed, but going by the three-episode rule, we need to move to the deeper material no later than episode 3" - Production Member B
These two comments are on shows that are very different in tone, goal and style. Curiously, they both have Ayako Kawasumi playing someone from the Anglosphere.

I like both of them, one for having a quirky cast of schoolgirls, the other for having a focus on the arts, but I also enjoyed the first two or so episodes of those shows for their comedic, some might say "generic" atmosphere. These two comments, while neither of them is malicious in nature or intent, both have this unspoken undercurrent about the media and about fans with my interests. I'm not saying these are indicative of a larger trend, either. The second one in particular has been bugging me since October when they first debuted.

I don't like the implications that Akiba-type fans are being thrown under the bus.

Now, many people probably enjoy both of these things, or many of them. People who can enjoy over-the-top, somewhat fanservicey comedy and drama. People who can enjoy cute girls doing cute things with the background adding flavor and military things. But what annoys me about these two posts is the idea that the "fanservice fans" or the "moe fans" are somehow more gullible, and the ones who see what either show ends up evolving into and is glad it isn't another "generic" thing are somehow above them. Even if there's probably a good chunk of people out there* who would've enjoyed the shows just as much, or even more, if they were familiar, defining themselves in other ways. Depth comes in many forms.

*not verified.

A variant of this argument could be applied to Madoka, too, but when it comes to Madoka, what I was watching the show for - the magical girl element - remained roughly the same even as the show's tone and story changed. With Sakurasou, the comedy never entirely vanished, but it certainly became downplayed. It ties back to something that's been a common gripe of mine - why is it that comedy, or certain genres, are always considered "generic" at the outset and have more to prove? I often enjoy the first six or so episodes of many series more than the more dramatic turns - I feel comedy simply gives me more to discuss.

In GuP, the character-driven relationship stuff was quickly replaced by clunking machines and characters acting more as teams than individuals. Like with Sakurasou, the elements I started watching for never completely disappeared, but they were downplayed. But I posted plenty about that in its own thread.

I enjoy cute girls and nerd slang and marveling in the derivative works fan create based on these things, on character goods and character songs and anime that doesn't feel a need to conform to realism. The Akiba-type of fan and Akiba culture aren't just peripheral to anime, to me, they're a vital part of the experience. But all I ask is to not feel like, if I'm watching for those elements, that I'm just a tool of marketing, a momentary distraction before the "real" show begins.

Either side sees things as an uphill battle for themselves. Either you have plenty of series to choose from but no "credibility", or almost instant credibility but a lack of series to choose from. I don't know what portion of this board's readership composes of fans like myself - for all I know, I could be the only one - but every time I see a post about how an anime can be "taken seriously" or "isn't like the others" or isn't "pandering", that unspoken subtext of "not like them" is infuriating. It can be done even without meaning to. And it's always that type of anime that's the target for these kind of comparisons. Why always compare against a negative? You can build up a show's merits without tearing something else down in the process. Or if there is going to be snark, I like having some form of appreciation behind it instead of vitriol, though I understand not everyone thinks that way. Word choice and tone can imply a lot of things, even if the rest of the post is formal and polite. The actual picture is probably like neither side paints it, but the credibility makes a huge difference. This blog post summarizes the problem much better than I could.

Which takes me into a second, slightly different, but related thesis.

A lot of stories are about humans, or a place, that also holds humans. The planet Aqua is as much a character as Akari. Even robots can be human, as Akiho has attested. But for someone who's trying to bridge the gap between various types of otaku, I don't want to appear hypocritical, and will thus put forth something personal. I can get along with almost any type of fan, but I have a tough time seeing eye to eye with military otaku, at least in regards to show discussion. The reasons why stem from various things entirely outside the scope of this forum, but if we're speaking in terms of anime discussion, it's because for shows like GuP and Upotte, discussion focused primarily on tools, treating characters as secondary. For someone who's viewed a story through characters all their life (thus affecting the kind of stories I'm likely to view in the first place), I want to find some way to find common ground. If there are going to be more shows like GuP down the line (I know at least one is already set), then I don't want to go through this again - though I understand it was mostly my fault, a simple personal reaction, the first time.

A fujoshi and a casual fan and a yuri fan might view a character differently, but they're ultimately both looking at the same character. In this case, the "focal point" from the Akiba and military types isn't on the same plane - they're more likely to look at the plane, I'm more likely to look at Charlotte Yeager and want to know about her personal relationship with Lucchini, which I likely envision as a yuri one because my goggles are always on. It's like we're watching two entirely different shows. Which is a given, but with this type of fandom clash of ideals... The first step to creating discussion is finding common ground, and we're all in this together, so what common ground can be found here?

This has worked before - I'm not a super dedicated fan of Strike Witches, for example, but if I'd mention it and So Ra no Wo To in the same breath as "military anime" (albeit in different ways), I'd say I like both, but the way Upotte and GuP expressed themselves... I wanted to like them, and for the most part I did, but I found myself unable to discuss. And being able to talk with my fellow fans, even if we're only connected by a small thread or two, is important. GuP's overwhelming popularity with the Western fandom was a factor, and I'd be dishonest if I said it wasn't, because I felt the reasons it was becoming popular show a difference in the Western fandom and the Japanese fandom, in military otaku and Akiba types like myself, that represents a wide gulf that I had never really come into contact with before.

I don't want to irrationally hate a group. Especially if, in all other instances, for all other shows, discussion may progress in a perfectly normal way. I'd only be hurting myself. I even find some of them cool, even if they're fictional. Ota-Ma!'s Ameri is a friend I'd trust with any of my troubles.



The file name even has "i luv" in it. I think that's a sign. Or a really cheeky random letter generator.

It's a debate that has come up hundreds of times before, but I hope I was able to bring a new angle to it this time.
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Old 2013-03-29, 00:02   Link #79
Ithekro
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There is a particular style of fandom. I'm not sure if it is a sci-fi thing, or something wider. But there is a subset that will treat both the characters and the hardware as characters alike. Certain naval based series tend to give the ship a personality of sorts even though the ship is not a life form, rarely if ever speaks (even if it has a computer system, the computer isn't always the same as "the ship"). Eventually the ship gets treated like one of the cast. Or sometimes even the star of the show, when the largest cheer is for when the ship arrives. Not the crew or hero or the captain, but the ship.

The original Star Trek was like this after a while with the USS Enterprise. The ship became a character via the reactions and interactions with the characters (mostly through Captain Kirk and Mr. Scott). Captain Kirk was practially married to his ship. No matter what love potion or hypnosis he might be under, the ship was the first love over any woman of the week (save one, and even then, he had to let her die to save humanity) Mr. Scott treated the ship like his child and babied her.

Another example would be the Millenium Falcon, which was tempermental and it showed in all the Star Wars films she was in.

For anime, there is Space Battleship Yamato, which was said to have a spirit in it. It sometimes seemed almost alive.

GuP on the other hand, the tanks don't generally have a personality, but because of the style of the telling, the tank and the teams driving it becomes their collective personality. Where the tank's personality is the team's personality. Though that, if becomes part of the team, and could almost be a character itself. It works if you can feel for the tank when it is hit baddly just as you would for the girls inside it. Te only difference is that the we know the girls will be just fine due to the carbon coating and the rules against death. The tanks on the other hand, get messed up and abused, so they take the place of the sympathy from the girls when on the battlefield.
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Old 2013-03-29, 00:16   Link #80
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Fandom is like racism in anime/manga against the unbelievers....
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