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Old 2012-10-14, 02:10   Link #841
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane View Post
What if it is a case of a serious crime network or something that needs tracking evidence and such.....blowing up people this way will leave little evidence to work with.
I believe they can override the kill setting and downgrade it to paralize at will. Therefore I think that nowadays law enforcement is in the very same position. If the perp accepts to be detained (or is subdued with a good old close combat) they can do some interrogation and do some dna testing. But sometimes in the heat of the moment a gunfight ensues and they die in the operation, there is still tissue to do some dna testing on the dead tissue, but any info the perp had dies with him.
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Old 2012-10-14, 02:23   Link #842
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Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
Possible case that will be problematic to handle under cybil:

case 1 : true psycopath or trained assasin..CC rating normal, no stress, basically dominator is locked cannot shoot (must unlock manually)....i can imagine a case where our MC see a person that with normal CC, declared safe, suddenly the person just go killing spree while still maintain normal CC...
Then that assassin must be really trained to the point that he's capable of killing his own feeling.

Quote:
case 2 : "exception" case...special goverment agent, high ranking officer with lot of influence
I wouldn’t be surprised if this system is really corrupted to the core that those who are in the power are safe from it, when they’re the ones who need to be apprehended the most. Just like the real world.

Quote:
case 3 : situational case...just like current case it will provide "false" reading thus incorrect judgement
This is the most complicated problem. When the criminals status got updated to allow lethal shots, Masaoka said that the Sybil system ranked him as a person who is no longer needed to the world. However when the victims Psycho-Pass got this update and Akane saved her, it recovered back to “normal” criminal levels, showing another flaw in the system.

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any other idea?
case 4 : Whether Sibyl decide suicide as a crime, and the tendency to do suicide as high Psycho Pass.
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Old 2012-10-14, 02:24   Link #843
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Insane View Post
I think it's quite understandable for a newbie like her. All this crime-fighting business is as alien and new to her. She may have written a thesis before her graduation (which is only tangentially related to field work), but she has zero field experience (even if she's the top ranking student from Academy). She hadn/t yet understand that her pacifism and peace loving solution won't work on the real thing. It's like a little child who isn't even able to walk on his own feet suddenly got into a bicycle.
More like she's a civil servant who still thinks she's out there to serve the public rather than do the minimum of effort to be said to do her job. Talking down the woman would have worked if the other idiot hadn't been busy threatening her.

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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Also the old guy was going to say something about being made an enforcer but I guess we'll have to wait for that explanation.
He has an old cop feel to him. Maybe he used to be a supervisor who saw too much and became an enforcer.


I agree with whitecloud about the exceptions. This being a similar setup to Equilibrium, you probably have flaming hypocrites at the top. The only question is why they don't encourage the general population to self-medicate themselves into apathy.
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Old 2012-10-14, 03:47   Link #844
desrtsku
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Originally Posted by Insane View Post
Somehow i got feeling that Psycho Pass is no more than "Stress Pass". What if, say, someone, a real psychopathic, who doesn’t feel a thing about killing people, wouldn’t he just be ignored by that shitty scanner?
There's no mention anywhere they're only basing their analysis on small factors like stress or similar things.
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Old 2012-10-14, 10:31   Link #845
arekwibowo
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Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
Wow, in just one episode the plot somewhat parallels what Madoka took 11 episodes to reveal. Who knows which levels of hell Urobutcher will take us to over the next 23 episodes?
Umm, based on what i saw on Wikipedia, this show only got 22 episodes (typical of noitaminA anime shows).
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Old 2012-10-14, 11:41   Link #846
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okay, the 1st ep really brings up a lot of discussion
as a huge fan of Urobuchi's work, I don't think I am satisfied with the 1st ep

The major problem of this ep is: how stupid the whole system is
This flawed, inhumane policing system seemed to create problems than solutions
and this is exactly why I think Urobuchi has done wrong in this ep
As I comprehend, the whole "psycho-pass" system should be "in order to create a better world" by "curing the disease in the society"
Immediately go into showing the flaw of the system isn't a good idea
That make all of us think about "why should they implemented this system with so many obvious problems at the first place?"
I think they should show us the "Better world" first to convince people the system is indeed "building a better world"
Then we won't think the system is really so stupid and useless at all

If I were the director, I would make the scene like this:
At first, I will show the normal daily life of mentally healthy Ms "hostage" (I forgot her name) and show the safe and lively world (all in a bright mood - bright light, laughing crowds...)
then the "criminal" show up and kidnap Ms "hostage" (change into the dark mood)
and then follow by the ep

The contrast is the key
With this contrast, we can complete the argument on utilitarianism and humanism - "Is it right to ignore the human mind and freedom for the greater good of society?"
then if yes, "how can we know a person which is "useful" to our society or not?"
This question should be the origin of the psycho-pass measurement
Urobuchi may have think about this but this ep can't show me this argument clearly
maybe he will make this up in this next ep

so I am looking forward for the next ep
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Old 2012-10-14, 11:56   Link #847
MartianMage
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Originally Posted by kemal_1915 View Post
okay, the 1st ep really brings up a lot of discussion
as a huge fan of Urobuchi's work, I don't think I am satisfied with the 1st ep
I doubt you even read the recent pages if that's what you have to say for the episode.
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Old 2012-10-14, 12:24   Link #848
kemal_1915
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
I doubt you even read the recent pages if that's what you have to say for the episode.
I don't what you mean
I am talking about the presentation of the ep and what I think about how they should present the idea
I am talking about some scenes they could be add to enforce the plot
I don't think the content of the last few pages is about this aspect
you are discussing about the idea and plot of the ep
and I have nothing to add because it has been deeply discussed

In short, my idea is
show bad side of the system only (which is presented now) --> most of us know it is bad --> it is stupid to use it
show both good side and bad side of the system (in this ep or later ep) --> some of us may weigh the pro and con --> maybe the system is useful
adding some scenes can make the difference

Last edited by kemal_1915; 2012-10-14 at 12:39.
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Old 2012-10-14, 12:36   Link #849
MartianMage
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I guess I'll repeat myself again....

Why aren't we even considering that the Psycho Pass is actually accurate and acceptable? Because yeah if it was soooo bad then why was it passed in the first place? People are always saying "obviously flawed" but have you ever thought why was it presented this way if the flaw was so obvious? Maybe we need to step back and let the show try to explain things before we say "this is flawed that is flawed etc etc" we're only at the first episode...
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-10-14, 12:55   Link #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
I guess I'll repeat myself again....

Why aren't we even considering that the Psycho Pass is actually accurate and acceptable
It's tough to call the system accurate when it changes its mind so much on the rape victim: not a target ----> non lethal target -----> target for lethal action ------> non lethal target
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Old 2012-10-14, 12:59   Link #851
desrtsku
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
It's tough to call the system accurate when it changes its mind so much on the rape victim: not a target ----> non lethal target -----> target for lethal action ------> non lethal target
On the contrary, I'd pretty much call that accurate : she was okay ----> she snapped -----> she's gone nuts -----> she put down the lighter

And for some reason, Akane looked like she knew that would happen ...
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:06   Link #852
MartianMage
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And like I said earlier... if Akane didn't interfere and just let Masaoka paralyze the victim then it would have ended there with them taking the victim into custody and give her theraphy. Akane's interference only gave the victim more time to work herself up and get a lethal judgement.
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:10   Link #853
Klashikari
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The problem is like this: we have no idea what is the therapy, and it is implied it is not a "enjoyable" experience either. Also, if the victim memories aren't erased, she will remember that she was tazed despite being the victim.
Really that's the same as a cop apprehending the kidnapper, and then use a tazer on the victim to take her to the box. That's something no normal law enforcer in their right mind would do that, even if the victim is in a hysterical state.

In therm of practicability, paralyzing her would be the easiest way, but that's absolutely not the best course of action, if we take in consideration the context and the potential aftermath.
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:13   Link #854
totoum
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Quote:
On the contrary, I'd pretty much call that accurate : she was okay ----> she snapped -----> she's gone nuts -----> she put down the lighter

And for some reason, Akane looked like she knew that would happen ...
The thing is the enforcer told Akane that lethal action means " she's gone nuts beyond the point of no return" which wasn't the case since she did "return",so either the system got it wrong or enforcers are not using the system correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Akane's interference only gave the victim more time to work herself up and get a lethal judgement.
Akane's interference isn't what got her worked up,having a gun pointed at her is what got her worked up.When Akane gets to interfere without someone pointing a gun at her she calms down.
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:17   Link #855
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
The thing is the enforcer told Akane that lethal action means " she's gone nuts beyond the point of no return" which wasn't the case since she did "return",so either the system got it wrong or enforcers are not using the system correctly
I think the system is only judging the individual mental state at the given time, without the context, which means: if the individual were in a "normal condition", reaching such level in their psycho pass means they are no good anymore. But if you consider the context at hand, the outburst is obviously temporary, so no need to pull the instagib trigger.

Unless the system consider an individual to be dangerous the very moment they reach such treshold a single instant, it means the enforcers are too focalized on the numbers, and don't read between the lines. Either way, not going to be pretty.
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:19   Link #856
MartianMage
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And thus I say before we tag the system flawed and whatnot maybe we need to know how the system really works?

As for the therapy... maybe the criminal is exagerrating... maybe he's not confident that he can clear the therapy because he knows that he really has serious issues. Akane certainly didn't think it was bad(around 04:19).

Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Akane's interference isn't what got her worked up,having a gun pointed at her is what got her worked up.When Akane gets to interfere without someone pointing a gun at her she calms down.
Please check Akane's dominator GUI.

Like I said... if Akane didn't interfere it would have ended there with them just paralyzing the victim. The result would be acceptable if that was the case.

edit: I just noticed that the dominator GUI actually belonged to Akane.
__________________
Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!

Last edited by MartianMage; 2012-10-14 at 13:34.
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:27   Link #857
andyjay729
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We already have fanart! This one is my favorite (caution: NSFW ads).
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:42   Link #858
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
And thus I say before we tag the system flawed and whatnot maybe we need to know how the system really works?
We know the system very nearly killed the rape victim for being upset. So, yeah, it's fucking flawed. If you want to say it possibly results in less crime and fewer violent deaths than what we've got, and that that woman should therefore be considered "acceptable loss" or "collateral damage", go right ahead. But don't insult our intelligence by pretending there's any possibility of the system being perfect and the setting being a utopia.
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:47   Link #859
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We already have fanart! This one is my favorite (caution: NSFW ads).
Ok I may have loled a bit too much after that one.

I just hope our main girl won't be getting the same treatment Sayaka got but since this IS Butcher Gen we're talking about...
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Old 2012-10-14, 13:49   Link #860
MartianMage
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
We know the system very nearly killed the rape victim for being upset. So, yeah, it's fucking flawed. If you want to say it possibly results in less crime and fewer violent deaths than what we've got, and that that woman should therefore be considered "acceptable loss" or "collateral damage", go right ahead. But don't insult our intelligence by pretending there's any possibility of the system being perfect and the setting being a utopia.
And do you know if enforcers are actually forced to follow what the gun tells them to do? And nowhere did I say that the system is perfect. I said the system might actually be accurate and acceptable.

And again(lol)... if Akane didn't interfere then the whole incident would have ended with them taking the victim into custody and giving her treatment. Is that not an acceptable outcome?
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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