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Old 2012-10-14, 22:29   Link #21
asaqe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Maestro View Post
If the lead guy is good and assertive to the women then there's no point in it. It's best for the women to be the one trying to get closer to the lead guy, That's what the harem's lead guy's traits.
I don't believe assertiveness will end the series so quickly. You will not believe what new problems you have after you decided to bang some girls in the harem. You start to feel that "lcrossroads of life" coming up. The fact you have to think about which girl in the harem is going to be your significant other since once you grow up...looks are going to go away and the only they have is their talents and personality.
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Old 2012-10-14, 22:55   Link #22
Uberchu
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The best harems usually have interesting MC's. imo, Issei from High School DxD was different from most since he wasn't such a wimp.
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Old 2012-10-14, 23:18   Link #23
starlol
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Someone mentioned shoujo and I agree. It's the same. So how about the harem members of a harem anime? We always have our usual few character types. Why are most of the characters about the same? Why is it so easy to see which member of the harem will be the most popular character just by reading 2 lines about the character?

Yes, they may be uninteresting and plain and that's the reason why normal girls won't be interested in him. Think of normal girls as the main girl in shoujo manga. They will only be looking at the good looking ones. The cutest girls have too many handsome guys around them and they are already used to it. So they are more or less immune to the good looking and powerful male characters.

Will you prefer a character that constantly think whether the female characters are in love with him over the dense ones? i doubt so. Cause it will be irritating to see the main guy thinking way ahead of himself.

I didn't watch much harem anime but for the ones I watched, I feel that most of them deserve their harem.
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Maybe slightly off topic: What really defines a harem? When more than 3 characters are in love with the main character? Does it include 'sister' who is a supporting character whom does not have much screen time?
Than why aren't manga like 'Namida Usagi'(I cannot think of any other example right now. But there's quite a few I have been reading the same as this series.) considered as '(Reverse)Harem'? At one point of the story, there are 3 characters in love with the main character.
I dislike how everyone automatically call a series with and 3girls and 2 guys a harem but not a series with 2girls and 3 guys a reverse harem.
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Old 2012-10-15, 00:00   Link #24
Marcus H.
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In fact, here's a challenge. Point out some harem male characters more alpha than this dude:
Does the MC of Hagure Yuusha no Esthetica count?
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Old 2012-10-15, 06:40   Link #25
aohige
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Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Perhaps... it's harder to find more "Alpha Male archetypes" in Japan. Funny thing is: the number of characters, who can be described as such have dwindled.

In fact, here's a challenge. Point out some harem male characters more alpha than this dude:
Spoiler:
Huh? I hated Tenchi even back in the 90s, and felt like another rather passive and boring hero.

I'd pick Dark Schneider and Captain Ohgami over Tenchi any day.

As for video games, the infamous bastard known for "GAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!".
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Old 2012-10-15, 07:02   Link #26
Sheba
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Dark Schneider is fucking awesome. The kind of guy I'd love to see dropping in universes like Nanoha's and Touhou's, just saying.

In the video game field, Takeru Shirogane, for the character development, just enough said.
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Old 2012-10-15, 07:41   Link #27
Casshern
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Lame male protagonists have prevented me from enjoying many decent shows. On the other hand, I liked Keitaro from Love Hina even though he falls into most harem protagonist stereotypes. So I think a harem protagonist can be a good character even if he's dense, weak, useless etc as long as it's done right.
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Old 2012-10-15, 10:17   Link #28
ArchmageXin
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Well, there are male leads that are lecherous, (DXD, Trinity Seven), etc, then they are strong (Tsukihime, Fate/Night, Negima)

The biggest problem with Harem manga is the slippery slope it might end up being a HENTAI Manga instead. For example, I was bored one day and saw a hentai anime, the MC was betrayed years ago by a elf girl (Now Queen), as revenge, he seduced her first borne daughter, her younger loli daughter, the Queen of the Guards, and herself, then proceed to kill the king and seize the throne while taking the entire group as his harem.

How was that with a MC...but then, it wouldn't sell very well Something like that, is still out of the mainstream.
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Old 2012-10-15, 11:34   Link #29
n120cky
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It's because if the male leads is more interesting then the harem will be unfocused. for example would you think code geass as harem anime? Maybe many of us (including myself) say no, but there still a possibility for it as there is Kaguya (which is suggest the harem), C2, Karen, or even Nunnally.
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Old 2012-10-15, 12:52   Link #30
stelok
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I always wonder why can't harem anime have a super-cool bad-ass bishounen like Archer (Fate/Stay Night) or Hei (Darker than black)
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Old 2012-10-15, 12:56   Link #31
asaqe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Maestro View Post
If the lead guy is good and assertive to the women then there's no point in it. It's best for the women to be the one trying to get closer to the lead guy, That's what the harem's lead guy's traits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Well, there are male leads that are lecherous, (DXD, Trinity Seven), etc, then they are strong (Tsukihime, Fate/Night, Negima)

The biggest problem with Harem manga is the slippery slope it might end up being a HENTAI Manga instead. For example, I was bored one day and saw a hentai anime, the MC was betrayed years ago by a elf girl (Now Queen), as revenge, he seduced her first borne daughter, her younger loli daughter, the Queen of the Guards, and herself, then proceed to kill the king and seize the throne while taking the entire group as his harem.

How was that with a MC...but then, it wouldn't sell very well Something like that, is still out of the mainstream.
Well softcore won't hurt pending on the series, a seinen harem manga should have a couple of softcore (no nipple or genitala but very obvious notes they are going at it.

I mean romantic comedies over here occasionally toss in actual sex as humour.
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Old 2012-10-15, 13:46   Link #32
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
Well softcore won't hurt pending on the series, a seinen harem manga should have a couple of softcore (no nipple or genitala but very obvious notes they are going at it.

I mean romantic comedies over here occasionally toss in actual sex as humour.
Then it become hentai. Once it is clear the guy is getting some (and not immediate receive a kick in the crouch, frighten in fear, or a fireball from another rival girl, hammered by little sister), then it goes to X-rate one way or another.

And once it go past that line, it gets labeled as such and suddenly the readership become difficult. There are a few that can still apply (I.E Future Diary or Ulblatt) but then it is already covered with blood and death that sex would be the least objective material.

Personally, I find sex in any anime to be a distraction from the plot anyway. If all the author can think up are sex scenes, then make it hentai and be done with it. I personally think Fate/Night would had been better without the mandatory sex
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Old 2012-10-15, 14:20   Link #33
aohige
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Dark Schneider is fucking awesome. The kind of guy I'd love to see dropping in universes like Nanoha's and Touhou's, just saying.

In the video game field, Takeru Shirogane, for the character development, just enough said.
If you like Dark Schneider, you should check out Rance series.
They're practically the same being.

As for anime heroes..... let's not forget the awesome, swagtastic Haran Banjo from Daitarn 3.




Rich. Swauve. Badass. Pilots a gigantic mech and whoops alien asses.
Lady's man with two girlfriends. SAVES THE GODDAMN WORLD.

Yeah, that's right, robot heroes used to be COOL.
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Old 2012-10-15, 14:50   Link #34
james0246
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Honestly, Harem protagonists always seem evil to me. They are either too bland or too MAGNIFICIENT, and consequently I always feel like their "targets" are being somehow brainwashed/mindbroken from being the cool and interesting characters they started as, and becoming somehow subservient to the whims of a relatively uninteresting protagonist.

That's not to say that a polygamist, polyamorous or polyandrous relationship can not be dramatically interesting, its just not the standard.

That being said, I admit to liking Ouran High School Host Club (and I'm softer on shoujo harems in general, mostly because the featured lead girl is generally just a hot girl wearing glasses (or whatever the trope is called), and it is somehow more fun seeing men act like fools over a romantic interest).
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Old 2012-10-15, 16:29   Link #35
asaqe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Then it become hentai. Once it is clear the guy is getting some (and not immediate receive a kick in the crouch, frighten in fear, or a fireball from another rival girl, hammered by little sister), then it goes to X-rate one way or another.

And once it go past that line, it gets labeled as such and suddenly the readership become difficult. There are a few that can still apply (I.E Future Diary or Ulblatt) but then it is already covered with blood and death that sex would be the least objective material.

Personally, I find sex in any anime to be a distraction from the plot anyway. If all the author can think up are sex scenes, then make it hentai and be done with it. I personally think Fate/Night would had been better without the mandatory sex
Think James Bond...well may it is not a harem, but sex is another element in harem dynamic. It becomes something like eating, sleeping and drinking with friends.
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Old 2012-10-15, 16:38   Link #36
Vexx
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Sex is only a "distraction" if it wasn't properly built up to. If there's a solid contextual basis it is just a natural flow of the story line. It should also practically assess the consequences.

And yeah, far too few anime do that properly but there are some gems where even if the sex isn't explicit it had a solid foundation leading up to it.
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Old 2012-10-15, 17:48   Link #37
NinjaRealist
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Huh? I hated Tenchi even back in the 90s, and felt like another rather passive and boring hero.
Oh man. It's your opinion, but for the sake of Tenchi lovers out there, I'd just like to offer my own opinion that Tenchi Universe (the best Tenchi Series, IMO) is way better than 95% of harem comedies I've seen.

In my opinion, Tenchi is much more willful than most harem protagonists but the real strength of this show is the supporting cast. All of the females are such over-the-top zany (though certainly not very realistic) characters that I can't help but find them entertaining, and Tenchi's grandpa is a true badass, in every sense of the word.
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Old 2012-10-15, 18:59   Link #38
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Sex is only a "distraction" if it wasn't properly built up to. If there's a solid contextual basis it is just a natural flow of the story line. It should also practically assess the consequences.

And yeah, far too few anime do that properly but there are some gems where even if the sex isn't explicit it had a solid foundation leading up to it.
Frankly, I personally find it way to annoying.

Spoiler for With comparison to Fate/stay night and Tsukihime:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-15 at 19:16. Reason: Added spoiler tags just in case people haven't seen these shows
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Old 2012-10-15, 21:48   Link #39
hyl
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Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Frankly, I personally find it way to annoying.

Spoiler for With comparison to Fate/stay night and Tsukihime:
I am sure that there are many people who read eroge (like in your examples Tsukihime and FSN) primarily for the story and the characters and not for the ero content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Honestly, I think this is changing, thanks in large part to eroge adaptations.

Eroge adaptations tend to be very harem-esque, and I find that the male leads in them have actually been pretty good, solid, and often entertaining characters.

Steins;Gate's Okabe kind of has a harem. It's easy to forget that due to the sci-fi and drama parts of the show, but the guy really does have several girls crushing on him in various ways. Okabe was the best anime male character of all of 2011, imo.

The Key/KyoAni main male protagonists all have their definite strengths and they even tend to carry the scenes they're in, imo.

Mashiro-iro Symphony's Shingo was the consummate diplomat with real smoothness and finesse, and Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate's Oojima was an awesome politician with a fair number of GAR moments, imo. Hell, Oojima/Shingo would be an US Presidential ticket that I would feel really good about.


If you're tired of classic-style harem anime, then just switch on over to eroge adaptations is what I would strongly encourage.
Unfortunately those kind of main characters are not that common in eroge. Unless you are reading action oriented eroge or nukiges, you are most likely stuck with donkan protagonists.

As for Steins;Gate's harem elements, it was mocked by it's own fandisc Hiyoku Renri no Darling
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Old 2012-10-15, 22:05   Link #40
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Ever noticed that in shoujo series the exact same thing happens but with reverse gender? Normal protagonists, whether male or female, are used to show how abnormal or special the love interests are,
I don't actually agree with that. "Normal" defined as what, exactly?

If it's looks, no.
Shoujo heroines (even with harems of guys) are treated a lot better than shounen heroes who have harems.

I can name a TON of loser/meh guys from harems but only one or two loser/meh girls from shoujo reverse-harems. On the other hand, I can name a ton of harem shows and only a handful of reverse-harem shows, so that might be why.

But because the shoujo heroine is supposed to be something of an idol for little Japanese girls, she is normally at least pretty as opposed to the "incredibly plain" design male leads get. She is normally well-liked at least by her target audience, whereas the target audience for the male lead normally hates him or is jealous of him....or just doesn't care about him.

If it's personality...that is also a no. Male leads of harems can have really BAD personalities...like being perverted or really indecisive or unloyal or just complete doormats. Shoujo leads of r-h, are normally good girls...and don't normally have bad/unlikable personalities unless you count Miaka from Fushigi Yuugi who is mind-numbingly stupid but is by no means, a girl with loose morals.
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