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Old 2012-10-15, 19:09   Link #4641
bludvein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
Fairness assesses Godou's strength in relative to his opponent. If he beats an enemy that's at his prime, then it could be classified that Godou is stronger than that enemy. If Godou kills a weakened opponent, it couldn't be said that he's stronger than that opponent. And guess what? The time of having become a campione is actually considered irrelevant. It isn't experience nor training that guides them in fights, it's instinct. Either way, the fact that he has such an unreliable set of powers is his own personal fault. As we have discussed earlier, he should have went out of his way to farm gods and get more authorities or develop his powers.
If that was really the case Salvatore wouldn't be waiting for him to get stronger before fighting again. Athena and Luo Hao also expect him to be a big deal in the future.

Although a Campione's instincts are certainly useful, experience and skill play a large part as well. Both can only be obtained from participating in fights. Godou has been busy, but he still has a lot of room for growth with his powers.

From a strictly practical point of view, "farming" gods would make sense. 2 problems with that though. Heretic gods aren't that common, and for a moralistic person to just go around slaughtering heretic gods for their powers....Wouldn't that make him too much like Voban?
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Old 2012-10-15, 19:13   Link #4642
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Do Mariya's parents know about Godou and his being a Campione?
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Old 2012-10-15, 19:20   Link #4643
kokolores
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
The fight with Sun Wukong wasn't even fair. It was a 3 v 1. You do realize that the subordinate gods he has are counted as his powers, right? It's because of the unfairness of the situation that Godou did not receive any authorities after he defeated Sun Wukong.Please mind that the fights we are talking about are one vs one fights that are fair--as in both parties are undamaged prior to the fight.Like I said, stop pointing to the fight with V-tan. He doesn't have that luck anymore. The tome is gone--and neither was that fight fair either--he assassinated V-tan.
Hmm, from what I understood the fight was fair. Sun Wukong was only able to call upon his subordinate gods because he was facing three Campiones. Had he only faced Godou he would have been weaker. Atleast that is what I understood from the translation on BT. Instead of fairness I'd say the fight was just too messed up and too ambiguous for anyone to gain a new authority. Each of the 3 Campione getting a third of an authority wouldn't make sense.

One thing I think which determines whether a Campione gains a new authority other than fairness is that the god has to entrust his or her power to the Campione to atleast some extent. V-tan did it and Circe does the same from what you yourself said. I don't recall whether that sword also made a choice.
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Old 2012-10-16, 00:35   Link #4644
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Mmm I dont know what are you discussing.

I think the topic is whether godou is strong or not.

And yes he is. That is the answer.

If his sword becomes unusable who cares is just one of the many possible strategies to win against him. Some people say farm Gods. But he is not in a level to do it.

Alec mastered his first authority when? 3 years or 4 after becoming a Campione. Doni has the most simple yet easily the most offensive autorithy posible in all the world.

Some people say the Gods should do this, or they do that. But Godou doesnt play fair. He has never played fair and he never will. He has his own mentality to win and he has never been talented. So in his mind he has never considered himself being special. He doesnt want problems but as a Campione the problems follow him. Give him time. The ladies have changed for the better. He will too.
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Old 2012-10-16, 01:10   Link #4645
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by kokolores View Post
Hmm, from what I understood the fight was fair. Sun Wukong was only able to call upon his subordinate gods because he was facing three Campiones. Had he only faced Godou he would have been weaker. Atleast that is what I understood from the translation on BT. Instead of fairness I'd say the fight was just too messed up and too ambiguous for anyone to gain a new authority. Each of the 3 Campione getting a third of an authority wouldn't make sense.

One thing I think which determines whether a Campione gains a new authority other than fairness is that the god has to entrust his or her power to the Campione to atleast some extent. V-tan did it and Circe does the same from what you yourself said. I don't recall whether that sword also made a choice.
He is able to call all his subordinates without having ANY campiones around.He summoned his bros before Godou and co re-entered the area he was in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
If that was really the case Salvatore wouldn't be waiting for him to get stronger before fighting again. Athena and Luo Hao also expect him to be a big deal in the future.

Although a Campione's instincts are certainly useful, experience and skill play a large part as well. Both can only be obtained from participating in fights. Godou has been busy, but he still has a lot of room for growth with his powers.

From a strictly practical point of view, "farming" gods would make sense. 2 problems with that though. Heretic gods aren't that common, and for a moralistic person to just go around slaughtering heretic gods for their powers....Wouldn't that make him too much like Voban?
Salvatore sure didn't give Godou any handicaps. He went full power on him. If I am not mistaken, he even
Spoiler for vol 11:
. As for god farming, at the very least, he should have went to hunt Melqart again. We know that guy is alive, and there's probably more heretic gods like him out in the wild. As the moralistic thing, Godou should stuff himself. Before we got into the discussion of whether he could win without the Golden Sword, we were just talking about how pathetic and unrealistic his attitude is. Like I said before, when you become a Campione,you either get stronger or you are gonna get killed. He is the only campione who relies on subordinates, and we have discussed sometime earlier, gods do target followers. He seriously needs to farm gods. Voban's point of view is correct, the only problem with his method is that he doesn't give a crap about collateral damage. Just lure the god into the wild, or just have the area evacuated. Like I said, the Last King isn't going to be anything like the gods Godou have fought before. If he doesn't man up and get stronger, he is gonna die.

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Originally Posted by Mars Mode View Post
Mmm I dont know what are you discussing.

I think the topic is whether godou is strong or not.

And yes he is. That is the answer.
He's strong in a sense, but has too many weaknesses to be exploited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars Mode View Post
If his sword becomes unusable who cares is just one of the many possible strategies to win against him. Some people say farm Gods. But he is not in a level to do it.

Alec mastered his first authority when? 3 years or 4 after becoming a Campione. Doni has the most simple yet easily the most offensive autorithy posible in all the world.
.
Most of the time, he NEEDS the sword to win. You obviously haven't read what I wrote earlier. The only times he managed to win or draw with an opponent is the fight with Lao Hao , Sun Wukong and his assassination of Verethragna. In the other fights,he was either killed or badly injured when he went into a fight with the other opponents without using the sword.

Remember what happened to Godou when he went into a fight with Salvatore without the Golden Sword?

Remember what happened to Godou when he went into a fight with Melqart without the Golden Sword?

Remember what happened to Godou when went into a fight in volume XIII without using the Golden Sword?
Spoiler for vol XIII:


Remember what happened when the Golden Sword was
Spoiler for vol 9:


Remember what happened to Godou when he went into a fight with Voban without using the Golden Sword and what would have happened if he didn't have it?I really wonder which one of his other avatars got rid of Vobans' armies?

Remember what happened to Godou when he went into a fight with Perseus without using the Golden Sword?

Remember what Godou
Spoiler for vol 10:


The Golden Sword isn't only one technique Godou can use--it's his trump card. It's been stated a lot of times.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:02   Link #4646
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You dont like the sword or something?

maybe you like the sword too much?

I dont understand what is your point.

The sword is strong against gods. But is not omnipotent. Is not a trump card. I would say is more of a joker.

The sword is also a simple ability, but the conditions are troublesome.

I think Godou is okay being passive. Even Doni going around causing trouble in what 4 years has only 4 authorities. Gods dont appear daily.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:06   Link #4647
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by Mars Mode View Post
You dont like the sword or something?

maybe you like the sword too much?

I dont understand what is your point.

The sword is strong against gods. But is not omnipotent. Is not a trump card. I would say is more of a joker.

The sword is also a simple ability, but the conditions are troublesome.

I think Godou is okay being passive. Even Doni going around causing trouble in what 4 years has only 4 authorities. Gods dont appear daily.
My point is, he would have been killed without using the golden sword in those fights. My point is that without the golden sword, he would have been defeated in those fights. My point is, without the golden sword, he wouldn't have won those fights in the end. My point is, without the golden sword, Godou is pathetic. My point is, the golden sword is no simple ability. My point is, it's been stated a number of times by the characters that the golden sword is Godou's trump card.

"To not use your other name casually.... You did say that, right?"

Even the simplest of words could be turned into words of power, a sacred sword.

The golden secret sword that rend gods.

However, the trump card that was his strongest weapon, to what extend could its potential be reached this time?

His other forms having been sealed, anticipating that the [Sword] would be an exception, this way of thinking was somewhat weak. Yet, he did not care, he would simply go ahead. " Vol 4, Chapter 7, Part 1

"Transforming spell-words into a golden radiance, the power of the [Sword] which can cut the flesh of gods and their divine powers.

This was his greatest trump card for attack and defense." Vol 1, chapter 7, Part 2.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:10   Link #4648
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if you wanna put it that way ... then its not the sword .. is the girls ..
without the girls .. he will be dead by now ... they are either retrieving his body when he dies .. or giving him knowledge .. so its not the sword .. its the girls ..

without the girls he will be dead for a long time by now
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:15   Link #4649
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by Phoenix221186 View Post
if you wanna put it that way ... then its not the sword .. is the girls ..
without the girls .. he will be dead by now ... they are either retrieving his body when he dies .. or giving him knowledge .. so its not the sword .. its the girls ..

without the girls he will be dead for a long time by now
Exactly. That was the original point of the argument some pages back. We were talking about what would happen without the girls. The argument back then was that if someone targets the girls, he's screwed.We debated whether gods would target the girls, which they evidently did in a certain volume. Then all of a sudden the discussion turned into a debate about whether the absence of the golden sword due to the elimination of the girls would affect the fights much.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:21   Link #4650
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The sword and the girls are of him.

So whats the point is like saying a martial artist without his martial arts is a nobody which is true. Is like saying a gun without ammo doesnt function which is also true. He defeated Ama no Murakumo without the sword. But there are Gods out there where the sword is necessary why because they have abilities so hax. So he shouldnt use his Warrior form is what youre saying. I dont see your point. He has fought battles where his enemies wanted to kill him and he is alive until vol XIII so he has done well,

I think the question here is what do you expect?

Oh but they have already been targeted before is it not?
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:25   Link #4651
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by Mars Mode View Post
The sword and the girls are of him.

So whats the point is like saying a martial artist without his martial arts is a nobody which is true. Is like saying a gun without ammo doesnt function which is also true. He defeated Ama no Murakumo without the sword. But there are Gods out there where the sword is necessary why because they have abilities so hax. So he shouldnt use his Warrior form is what youre saying. I dont see your point. He has fought battles where his enemies wanted to kill him and he is alive until vol XIII so he has done well,

I think the question here is what do you expect?

Oh but they have already been targeted before is it not?
I have no idea what you are talking about. What do mean the sword and the girls are of him?As for defeating the Kusanagi Sword, do I even have to remind you that the Kusanagi sword is a demi-god, not a genuine heretic god? As for getting out alive, that was the girl's job. Without the girls and the sword, his corpse would have been rotting in the midst of no where.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:29   Link #4652
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i already say this a while ago .. but ill repeat it =/

if one of them is taken out he might snapped =/ and breakdown the restrictions of the authorities this is base on the fact that the only ones who have weird restrictions in the use of his authorities ( at least that we know ) are godou and smith they care for what they do
but when you see the others fighting they don't have restrictions since they don't care what happens to their surroundings

i think we can take what was in vol 11 ( that was just posted in baka tsuki ) that Erica just make him think she was injured by the killer spell .. and godou just out of anger release the boar =/ imagine what would he do if one of them dies in front of him ??

also you cant say he defeated the sword .. the sword went to him because he had power he find him worthy .. ( just like all the talking sword in anime history ... )
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:34   Link #4653
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The discussion before was, if somehow godou golden sword doesn't work on the enemy or stolen, does Godou still has a chance (not 100%, just a chance bigger than 0%) to beat a god with only his other power and innate luck that all Campione was born with or not. My opinion was yes, Godou still has a chance because he still has something to kill the enemy although he might be heavily injured in the process, whie darthfanta opinion was no, Godou has 0 chance to win once the sword can't be used based on that so far, he does need to use said sword to weaken his enemy first if ot ouright kill them.

BTW, although I also want Godou to get stronger, I'm in the camp that against god-farming method. Just look at Luo Cuilian who manage to be very strong with just 2 authorities. I feel that Godou should also do the same approach, use his other skill to make-up for the lack of authorities. Maybe he should level-up his lady-killing ability and get rid of his guilty feeling for doing kiss-kiss time?
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:35   Link #4654
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by Phoenix221186 View Post
i already say this a while ago .. but ill repeat it =/

if one of them is taken out he might snapped =/ and breakdown the restrictions of the authorities this is base on the fact that the only ones who have weird restrictions in the use of his authorities ( at least that we know ) are godou and smith they care for what they do
but when you see the others fighting they don't have restrictions since they don't care what happens to their surroundings

i think we can take what was in vol 11 ( that was just posted in baka tsuki ) that Erica just make him think she was injured by the killer spell .. and godou just out of anger release the boar =/ imagine what would he do if one of them dies in front of him ??

also you cant say he defeated the sword .. the sword went to him because he had power he find him worthy .. ( just like all the talking sword in anime history ... )

He still can't use the sword even if he goes Berserk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
The discussion before was, if somehow godou golden sword doesn't work on the enemy or stolen, does Godou still has a chance (not 100%, just a chance bigger than 0%) to beat a god with only his other power and innate luck that all Campione was born with or not. My opinion was yes, Godou still has a chance because he still has something to kill the enemy although he might be heavily injured in the process, whie darthfanta opinion was no, Godou has 0 chance to win once the sword can't be used based on that so far, he does need to use said sword to weaken his enemy first if ot ouright kill them.

BTW, although I also want Godou to get stronger, I'm in the camp that against god-farming method. Just look at Luo Cuilian who manage to be very strong with just 2 authorities. I feel that Godou should also do the same approach, use his other skill to make-up for the lack of authorities. Maybe he should level-up his lady-killing ability and get rid of his guilty feeling for doing kiss-kiss time?
That's only because Lao Hao is a genius at martial arts and magic.Also, I can't see how Lao Hao only having 2 authorities is a legitimate excuse to say that god-farming doesn't work. He would get stronger regardless if he kills more gods.And in addition to that Lao Hao had two centuries of experience to perfect her skill. Godou only has a number of years at most before he faces the strongest steel. The quickest way to level up is to kill as many heretic gods as possible.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:37   Link #4655
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now that i think about it . didn't he copy the tigers howl and dragon's roar from luo ?? :S?
that count as an ability right???
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:38   Link #4656
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We dont understand each other xd

Spoiler for Campione vol 7 ch 7:


So it doesnt matter if they are messenger or something like that, and even if he didnt have an unshakable ego he won. When nobody else could have won against kusanagi sword. Luo Hao has tried to kill Yuri and Erica and he could protect them both.

And yes he can win just by sheer luck, or "fighting dirty". If someone wants to kill me Im not going to stop to think Im fighting dirty.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:39   Link #4657
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We dont understand each other xd

Spoiler for Campione vol 7 ch 7:


So it doesnt matter if they are messenger or something like that, and even if he didnt have an unshakable ego he won. When nobody else could have won against kusanagi sword. Luo Hao has tried to kill Yuri and Erica and he could protect them both.
Kusanagi sword isn't even a heretic god....I already told you.Besides that, he's a subordinate god at most.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:42   Link #4658
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Where does it say it isnt a God.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:43   Link #4659
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Where does it say it isnt a God.
The novel...please go and reread the volume where Ena and the Kusanagi sword comes in.The Kusanagi sword is a demi-god, not a heretic god.There are different classifications of gods in this series. Susanoo himself, for example, is a former heretic god.
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Old 2012-10-16, 02:47   Link #4660
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And later durring the kissing scene the sword descibes itself as [steel] . And passes knowledge to Ena which she passes to Godou about their origins.
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