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Old 2012-10-17, 08:48   Link #21
C4B0S3
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So, if Sasuke and Naruto fuse together, they would have the rinnegan?
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Old 2012-10-17, 09:38   Link #22
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i think there'l be one more flashback, explaining what happened to.. tobi? spiral zetsu

unless that zetsu was still part of obito when deidara exploded and thats how it died, (which could even explain the goofy tobi)

and the hyperbolic time chamber for training has been explained too.. the infinite tsukiyomi genjutsu, just like itachi's tsukiyomi can probably alter the perception of time, so obito could learn yonton and all the neccessary kinjutsu's to fight almost on minato's level years later

also from how this chapter played out, it may be that by "transplanting" his eyes,madara might have done something similar to itachi transfering his amaterasu ability that time to sasuke (and perhaps he'd only have normal eyes underneath afterwards) because i'm not sure how you'd rip out a child's eyes and put in your own "without them even noticing"
although, with genjutsu...

and hell, nagato prob had a zetsu body guard to ensure he didn't accidentally blow up before obito could get to him

one question is where do you guys see obito bringing rin's body to his dimension? i didnt get that impression in the chapter

overall, i think i like this back story and development. it all works for changing obito, i can suspend my disbelief enough to accept this all

especially since it's looking more and more like madara was in charge of the whole mizukage incident, which is why the mist attacked rin in the first place
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Old 2012-10-17, 10:24   Link #23
james0246
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I'm unsure how to feel about this chapter. On one hand, there was some fun info: B.Zetsu being Madara's "will" is interesting, though I am confused as to what the black rod and "Rikudou no Jutsu" are (is the black rod the same as the tool Nagato used?), and Gedou-chan being the Jyubi's shell makes a lot of sense (it's a little stupid to think that the Jyuubi won't awaken if you shove all its parts back inside, but whatever). On the other hand, the fact that Obito turns based solely on Rin is a very hard pill to swallow, especially considering that Kakashi will probably be able to explain away the entire situation in just a few chapters (effectively making the emotional brunt of Obito's flashback pointless). And, Madara beign at the heart of everything is a little too simplistic (I expect to learn next chapter that Tobi and B.Zetsu were responsible for Danzou and Hanzou betraying Nagato).

Whatever the case, the flashback is almost over.
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Old 2012-10-17, 10:32   Link #24
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I'm unsure how to feel about this chapter. On one hand, there was some fun info: B.Zetsu being Madara's "will" is interesting, though I am confused as to what the black rod and "Rikudou no Jutsu" are (is the black rod the same as the tool Nagato used?), and Gedou-chan being the Jyubi's shell makes a lot of sense (it's a little stupid to think that the Jyuubi won't awaken if you shove all its parts back inside, but whatever). On the other hand, the fact that Obito turns based solely on Rin is a very hard pill to swallow, especially considering that Kakashi will probably be able to explain away the entire situation in just a few chapters (effectively making the emotional brunt of Obito's flashback pointless). And, Madara beign at the heart of everything is a little too simplistic (I expect to learn next chapter that Tobi and B.Zetsu were responsible for Danzou and Hanzou betraying Nagato).

Whatever the case, the flashback is almost over.
i find that after swallowing the aizen behind everything pill, this is a much more refreshing painkiller

wouldn't even mind if madara stole the just as planned catchphrase, at least he actually did some planning

*also with the black rods, (how phallic that they're coming out of hashirama's lower abdomen, willthe gay jokes between these two ever stop) didn't obito have the black rods coming out of him in the last chapter with hiss rampage?
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Old 2012-10-17, 10:36   Link #25
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Rinnegan transfer

Can someone explain something to me, why hasn't Madara transfered the Rinnegan from Nagato to Obito right after Obito acquired the senju cells! I mean at that point Obito was able to use the Rinnegan (he even proved it by transplanting the Rinnegan in his right eyes socket later), this way controlling Nagato would not have been necessary!
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Old 2012-10-17, 10:45   Link #26
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^ Hadn't he already given them to Nagato? Anyway, okay chapter in that a lot of things are finally clear, albeit with the nasty aftertaste of
Quote:
Obito turns based solely on Rin
without ever wondering why things happened as they did.
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Old 2012-10-17, 11:39   Link #27
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Still think it's a pathetic reason to start a war, cause the death of thousands, force your own sensei to seal himself and his wife while sealing a tailed beast in their own child.
as i got bashed for before, it's the same reason the trojan war started in the iliad. and helen wasn't even dead. losing someone you love can destroy a fragile mind like obito's. just saiyan...

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Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear View Post
What do you base your conclusion on? In this chapter, Madara says that one cannot control the Mazou without having both the Uchiha's and Senju's powers.
like Artimus Prime said, the rinnegan would account for the uchiha dna part right? i just figured that since they went into a bit of detail about nagato's ancestry between madara and obito, and didn't mention nagato's possible uchiha lineage, then he probably didn't have one. he could still i guess, meaning madara left it out in his explanation, but why not just tell obito now if he's explaining everything else? it just doesn't seem likely to me after this chapter

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Originally Posted by Senju View Post
Can someone explain something to me, why hasn't Madara transfered the Rinnegan from Nagato to Obito right after Obito acquired the senju cells! I mean at that point Obito was able to use the Rinnegan (he even proved it by transplanting the Rinnegan in his right eyes socket later), this way controlling Nagato would not have been necessary!
my guess would be that it's because madara is too weak and can't leave that cavern anymore and at this time, nagato is too strong to allow anyone to take his eyes. the rinnegan seems to have a self-preservation mechanism that activates whenever nagato is in trouble or in distress. as strong as obito is now, they still reasoned that it was best just to manipulate nagato rather than fight him. he's a pretty powerful pawn to have in a grand scheme. and him fighting for them saves obito the trouble of always exhausting his own powers and risking himself
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Old 2012-10-17, 11:54   Link #28
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Good chapter that slowly brings everything together, but still adds to a mess for Kishi.

- How come MAdara couldn't keep his Rinnegan eyes and use a path to bring himself back to his young self - remember Nagato did when he absorbed chakra during edo
- Why did Madara give his eyes to Nagato, why him!?
- WHat happened to Kakashi & Rin, where's the reflection?
- What happened to black zetsu and why was he treated as fodder this entire time when it was Madara's consciousness?
- I fill Kishi pulled these twists out of his butt
- obito should've said "You must be Madara" because he never saw Madara's young self.
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Old 2012-10-17, 12:11   Link #29
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Woman...the cause of all that is evil in Narutoverse.
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Old 2012-10-17, 12:27   Link #30
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Wow, a lot of posters that registered even before 2009.

I liked tis chapter, but still more information could have been packed in it.
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Old 2012-10-17, 12:47   Link #31
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What I liked about this chapter is that it filled in a lot of missing information. (Madara's Death, Black Zetsu's Origin, Black chakra rods, Gedo Mazou, etc) What I didn't like was that Kishi tried to fit all of it into one chapter. I was hoping that Black Zetsu would turn out to be more than something that could be explained in a single panel. And now that it seems we have to full story of Obito's journey to the Dark Side, I have to agree that it doesn't hold together so well. He just goes along with Madara's plan way too easily. He didn't even want to know why Kakashi killed Rin?

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
like Artimus Prime said, the rinnegan would account for the uchiha dna part right? i just figured that since they went into a bit of detail about nagato's ancestry between madara and obito, and didn't mention nagato's possible uchiha lineage, then he probably didn't have one. he could still i guess, meaning madara left it out in his explanation, but why not just tell obito now if he's explaining everything else? it just doesn't seem likely to me after this chapter
Oh. I thought you meant that there was something in the chapter that ruled out the idea. It's just my own guess. And I think it would make the story a little bit more cohesive. If that's all we hear about Nagato's relationship with Madara, it would be a little unfortunate. Madara spent his entire life trying to get the Rinnegan and then, several years before his death, he hands it off to a kid he has no connection to?
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Old 2012-10-17, 13:12   Link #32
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"I guess it's because you let Rin die"

He wasn't lying. The part he left out was that he did not directly hold Kakashi responsible for it.

I do believe he is somewhat aware of his lunacy. It's just that he accepts it.
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Old 2012-10-17, 13:20   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Mists View Post
Good chapter that slowly brings everything together, but still adds to a mess for Kishi.

- How come MAdara couldn't keep his Rinnegan eyes and use a path to bring himself back to his young self - remember Nagato did when he absorbed chakra during edo
- Why did Madara give his eyes to Nagato, why him!?
- WHat happened to Kakashi & Rin, where's the reflection?
- What happened to black zetsu and why was he treated as fodder this entire time when it was Madara's consciousness?

- obito should've said "You must be Madara" because he never saw Madara's young self.
Hm, thats some brilliant work there Inspector Kluzo, except that this isn't a "mess", its simply a list things that haven't been explained to the audience yet. Quite a few highly anticipated explainations to some controversial plot anomolies have been released already, and most of the explanations have been hilariously simple --I say hilariously because some of the other "chief inspectors" around here usually come up with very elaborate predictions and "conclude" that Kishimoto will not be able to create a viable explanation for certain anomolies, only to be proven wrong by a very simple explanation in the following chapters. I'm sure this entertaining little trend will continue.

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Originally Posted by Mists View Post
- I fill Kishi pulled these twists out of his butt
It would be even more entertaining and constructive to the discussion if you backed up some claims like which "twits" you're unsatisfied with, and why you feel they are pulled out of his butt?
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Old 2012-10-17, 13:21   Link #34
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Still think it's a pathetic reason to start a war, cause the death of thousands, force your own sensei to seal himself and his wife while sealing a tailed beast in their own child.
I don't understand all these complaints about this issue, it's really natural behavior what Obito thinks and feels, as opposed to the still not explained large plot holes.
Real people started real wars because of love and such things. People are selfish, they care more about one loved person's fate than the fate of thousands of unknown people. Even the great "will of fire" and all that "king" stuff is just Konoha people caring about other konoha people, they didn't give a shit about how they messed up the rain country. As for killing people in war, it doesn't really matter to Obito any more, since the main goal of his plan is to end the world and create a new one.


I liked this chapter, but the main questions were not explained or only partially explained, will they remain a plot hole or not is still unclear. Such questions as:
- why did Madara leave Nagato alone with his precious eyes in a war zone, or maybe Zetsu was watching him the whole time, maybe even killed his parents to make him hate konoha and the ninja system. I can accept if this is not explained now if the explanation is that both the death of Nagato's parents and Rin were made by Madara. Then this might be explained later when Obito turns against Madara or something similar.
- how did Obito's personality turn into the masked guy who fought Minato. And why did he attack Konoha like that if he already had akatsuki to collect the 9 demons in order (kyuubi should be last).
- what's with all those scenes where Obito tells he is Madara even when it's a stupid or crazy thing to do. Was he under black zetsu's mental influence?


An interesting sentence in this chapter: "Nagato is from the Senju lineage" So Uzumaki is now also Senju, it's kinda messy now

Also nothing has been answered about Madara. When his clan "betrayed" him and he left the village did he go to attend a university to learn about cell biology?
The chapter says he implanted Hashirama's cells into his wound, if that wound is the same as where Kabuto placed the Hashirama face then why would the whole world think that Madara is dead, that wound was not that large.

The chapter also tells that Sasuke can't possibly awaken the rinnegan if he doesn't have senju cells, that doesn't sound good for Sasuke Unless it turns out that the reason Sasuke's father was talking so much about Sasuke to his mother is because he and Obito/Tobi had genetically implanted Hashirama's DNA into Sasuke's embryo. That sure would be a fun revelation

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2012-10-17 at 13:40.
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Old 2012-10-17, 13:23   Link #35
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Can someone explain something to me, why hasn't Madara transfered the Rinnegan from Nagato to Obito right after Obito acquired the senju cells! I mean at that point Obito was able to use the Rinnegan (he even proved it by transplanting the Rinnegan in his right eyes socket later), this way controlling Nagato would not have been necessary!
He had already given it to Nagato, and there was no need to take it back. He had basically given Obito the rinnegan since he gave him Senju Dna and he was already Uchiha. He gave Nagato Uchiha Dna when he was already Senju. I don't really understand why Obito only took 1 of Nagato's rinnegans, and what happened to the other one. Madara was able to use both his Sharingan and Rinnegan when they showed him fighting with Naruto. He switched his Sharingans to Rinnegans. I guess this means maybe Obito never awakened his own Rinnegan but had to take Nagato's but only took One.
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Old 2012-10-17, 13:47   Link #36
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Mists View Post
- How come MAdara couldn't keep his Rinnegan eyes and use a path to bring himself back to his young self - remember Nagato did when he absorbed chakra during edo
my guess would be that madara only had just obtained rinnegan and hadn't had the time to fully master it like nagato did or was close to anyway. nagato was a prodigy as well, even if slightly less of one than madara. it could be a rinnegan technique that nagato learned on his own and was unknown to madara. there could be other reasons as well including madara wanting to die for some reason. like Artful Dodger said, your questions all look like ones that will eventually be answered.

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
- why did Madara leave Nagato alone with his precious eyes in a war zone, or maybe Zetsu was watching him the whole time, maybe even killed his parents to make him hate konoha and the ninja system. I can accept if this is not explained now if the explanation is that both the death of Nagato's parents and Rin were made by Madara. Then this might be explained later when Obito turns against Madara or something similar.
that would be very interesting if zetsu killed nagato's parents. at the very least, i assume zetsu was watching over him. that's how obito got to nagato after all in this chapter. and i also think that there will be another revelation flashback series when obito eventually turns on madara. something along the lines of zetsu being responsible for rin's death.

Quote:
- how did Obito's personality turn into the masked guy who fought Minato. And why did he attack Konoha like that if he already had akatsuki to collect the 9 demons in order (kyuubi should be last).
it should be sealed last, but he could have captured the kyuubi and stored it until then. i think when he fought minato he must have killed his emotions entirely and was just a nihilistic machine seeing everyone as expendable for the moon's eye plan and not worth a second thought.

Quote:
- what's with all those scenes where Obito tells he is Madara even when it's a stupid or crazy thing to do. Was he under black zetsu's mental influence?
as the last panel suggests, obito figuratively becomes madara and doesn't drop the role under any circumstance. like how groucho marx always stayed in character. i thought obito would accept the name madara and become him in these flashbacks since that's the only way for scenes like the konan fight to make sense. he took on madara's will and his past.

Quote:
An interesting sentence in this chapter: "Nagato is from the Senju lineage" So Uzumaki is now also Senju, it's kinda messy now
this was basically already said by obito prior to the kage summit to naruto and again in more detail during the kushina flashback. it is a bit messy since kishi started the story out with no senjus left, but we just have to accept that uzumakis are senjus for naruto and sasuke's rivalry to echo the sons of the So6P

Quote:
Originally Posted by b1gdawg View Post
I don't really understand why Obito only took 1 of Nagato's rinnegans, and what happened to the other one.
obito kept his MS since the kamui power is so useful there's no reason to give it up for another rinnegan when he could just use both. i assume he has the other one in storage like the rest of his backup sharingans
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Old 2012-10-17, 13:51   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I liked this chapter, but the main questions were not explained or only partially explained, will they remain a plot hole or not is still unclear. Such questions as:
- why did Madara leave Nagato alone with his precious eyes in a war zone, or maybe Zetsu was watching him the whole time, maybe even killed his parents to make him hate konoha and the ninja system. I can accept if this is not explained now if the explanation is that both the death of Nagato's parents and Rin were made by Madara. Then this might be explained later when Obito turns against Madara or something similar.
- how did Obito's personality turn into the masked guy who fought Minato. And why did he attack Konoha like that if he already had akatsuki to collect the 9 demons in order (kyuubi should be last).
- what's with all those scenes where Obito tells he is Madara even when it's a stupid or crazy thing to do. Was he under black zetsu's mental influence?
Ah, another chief inpector with another list. Unfortunately, none of these are plot-holes either, and they can be explained so easily that the author probably wont waste time with even a short flashback, or bother explaining some of them at all for that matter and in fact, I hope he doesn't as the panels can be put to far better use.

To be honest, some of these really aren't even that relevant, as they are almost self-explanatory, like the details of how Madara expected Nagato to survive in a "warzone"(either zetsu clones watching over him and/or the eyes themselves being protection), or how Obito's personality turned into the masked man who fought Minato (this weeks chapter showcaseing Obito's new world paradigm should probably be sufficent for that one).

These are by no means "large plot-holes", they're nothing more than trivial little anomolies that aren't answered yet --some of them so trivial that the plot wouldn't affected if they remained unanswered.
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Old 2012-10-17, 13:56   Link #38
james0246
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post

Real people started real wars because of love and such things
. People are selfish, they care more about one loved person's fate than the fate of thousands of unknown people.
Can you name a few? Seriously, I'm having a hard time remembering any significant war in the past 100+ years based on emotions, and even the few I can recall from antiquity were romanticized after the fact (e.g. The Trogan War, First War of Scottish Independence, etc).

No, Tobi's reasoning and thought-process is stupid. He is yet another clear indicator that only idiots seem to get massive power in the Narutoverse (and as usual, the idiots always seem to fuck everything up).
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Old 2012-10-17, 14:00   Link #39
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Rin's spirit wasn't sealed or anything like that, it sounds simpler to revive her using one of the two jutsu introduced that can achieve that then pick up a fight against the world in order to be with an illusion of the one you love...
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Old 2012-10-17, 14:03   Link #40
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Rin's spirit wasn't sealed or anything like that, it sounds simpler to revive her using one of the two jutsu introduced that can achieve that then pick up a fight against the world in order to be with an illusion of the one you love...
She still wouldn't love him. Obito is going around the bend not only to bring her back (which she won't actually be brought back, he'll just "dream" she is), but also to brainwash her into loving him (or at least he is creating an artificial version of her that loves him).
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