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Old 2012-10-18, 20:00   Link #1061
Tiberium Wolf
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Holographic tech seems to be awesome. Specially useful in changing clothes.
The monitors in the office were kinda large. Doesn't make sense in futuristic world.
The Sybil telling what career ppl are more apt seems awesome too.
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Old 2012-10-18, 21:04   Link #1062
TinyRedLeaf
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What a difference a single episode can make. I echo the opinions of many: Ep2 helped to greatly expand on the premise of the story and the motivations of its key characters.

A number of thoughts come to mind, so I'll jot them down before I forget them. For a start, the idea that this world is "dystopic". My take on this, for the sake of discussion, is why should it be? Because, in truth, it's no more than a logical extension of many of our contemporary institutions.

Consider the dichotomy I've brought up much earlier, about the conflict between free will and determinism. Instinctively, we think "free will" exists, and that we are the sovereigns of our personal choices. Yet, even today, many would vigorously claim that "free will" is an illusion, that everything we can possibly be, can even possibly think of being, is determined from Day One by our biology. The scientific evidence for this point of view is compelling. Take, for example, brain-scan experiments that allow scientists to predict how we'd answer a question before we can even articulate our thoughts.

Take that view to its logical conclusion, and you'd be better able to appreciate why it's not a stretch to flag someone as a "latent criminal" from age five, especially if it's statistically possible to spot someone whose biology fits a criminal profile. You're not a criminal yet, but the risk of you falling over the edge is very high, hence remedial action needs to be taken immediately to prevent that from happening. Why is that necessarily a bad thing? If you are prone to a certain illness, wouldn't you take precautionary measures to prevent it?

Something else to mull over: it is made very clear, in this episode, that Akane enjoys an exclusive privilege by virtue of being exceptionally gifted. She has the luxury of choice, and the ability to experience the existential angst that accompanies such a choice.

Contrast this with the promise made by the Sibyl System, that for every job that needs to be done, there will be someone to match its requirements (I don't remember the exact words, but that's the gist of it).

This may seem dystopic for some but, in reality, how is it different from our modern educational system and the larger, capitalist-meritocratic society we live in? Particularly in East Asia, where children are "streamed" by examinations from a very young age, to determine which education tracks they are best suited for; where grades determine which schools you qualify for; the better your grades, the more prestigious the school, which in turn opens doors to careers that others aren't fit for.

We reward and promote people today supposedly on the basis of merit. People fall into severe depression from being unable to meet the expectations of their careers. That's a frequent story. What's wrong with creating a system that prevents this as far as possible?

Those are some of my observations, in rough form. No doubt they can be refined, when I have more time. For now, I hope they're enough to generate some discussion along those lines.
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Old 2012-10-18, 21:31   Link #1063
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I definitely liked that Shinya wasn't upset at Akane at all. In fact he even approved of what she did because it gave him another outlook on what he was doing. I wasn't expecting that at all, so it was a nice surprise.

Still his words about "something he has to do" makes me wonder if his criminal mind is linked to that.
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Old 2012-10-18, 21:33   Link #1064
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@TinyRedLeaf

Perhaps why Psycho Pass's world seems more dystopic is because our current world have a semblance of choice. As a student, I feel that one's success in education depend as much on the effort one is willing to put into their studies as much as one's talent. You can say how much effort I put in is all determined by biological and social circumstance, but I still felt like I made a choice. Locking up a 5 year old kid because of his CC, while can be a logical action, is not giving him a chance at life. It removes the "illusion of choice", plain for everyone to see, and here lies the depressing part of Psycho Pass' reality.
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Old 2012-10-18, 21:39   Link #1065
karice67
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
The way they make criminality out to be is more like potential threat level. Which really could be raised by stress from being near someone with high criminality
Hm...considering that Akane's 'virtual PA' suggested that she should take some supplements in order to protect her mind, it seems to me that they're really treating criminality as a disease, which is an interesting if frightening possible 'medical' development to me.

Then again, I suppose this is already considered normal in certain countries today...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarqu View Post
Spoiler for Ep 2:
I agree. Feels like Aldous Huxley's Brave New World...but I wonder if this show will go down a similar route, or try to explore some different, possibly more positive aspects of what seems to be a pretty restrictive system.
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Old 2012-10-18, 21:53   Link #1066
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Well they stole cloths changing thing from Lilpri


Any one else think they should be saying greeting and salutations when they meet
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Old 2012-10-18, 22:14   Link #1067
TinyRedLeaf
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Originally Posted by Gpower View Post
It removes the "illusion of choice", plain for everyone to see, and here lies the depressing part of Psycho Pass' reality.
Why do you need the illusion? Stripping away the illusion from your daily decisions does not make it any less necessary for you to make a choice.

If we argue that the "illusion of free will" is necessary, I can also argue that religion is an essential illusion for our psychological and spiritual happiness. After all, isn't religion the ultimate illusion in our daily lives today? Yet many people here would rather see religion abolished for all time.
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Old 2012-10-18, 22:23   Link #1068
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Criminals saving the city...
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Old 2012-10-18, 22:33   Link #1069
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What an awesome episode..........In merely 1 episode they managed to explain several unexplained things in previous episode in smooth and soft manner.
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Old 2012-10-18, 22:51   Link #1070
TinyRedLeaf
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Originally Posted by Lenneth4 View Post
Criminals saving the city...
Not quite criminals or they would have been literally liquidated by now. Rather, they are "latent criminals" (that is, potential criminals).

This link is helpful for elucidating the basis of my thoughts on free will versus determinism: Free Will, by Sam Harris.
Quote:
Harris prosecutes his orderly case by explaining what he sees as the illogic of our belief in free will, and the recent findings that have undermined that belief.

Compatibilists believe that "a person is free as long as he is free from any outer or inner compulsions", Harris writes, and they "have produced a vast literature in an effort" to salvage free will. "More than in any other area of academic philosophy, the result resembles theology," he continues, consigning it to what one assumes is, for him, the intellectual sub-basement.

Harris claims that doing so does not entail the end of morality, the idea of criminality and codes of ethical behavior. "Many people worry that free will is a necessary illusion," he says. "It is surely conceivable that knowing (or emphasising) certain truths about the human mind could have unfortunate psychological and/or cultural consequences." But it need not. We can still condemn "the conscious intention to do harm", he says, and he goes on to sketch a system of social and judicial evaluations that can lead to making valid moral judgments about people without invoking their wills.

"Once we recognise that even the most terrifying predators are, in a very real sense, unlucky to be who they are, the logic of hating (as opposed to fearing) them begins to unravel," says Harris.
I smell the beginning of the Psycho-Pass system in the above...

The point is simple. Abandoning the illusion of free will does not absolve us from the need to be responsible for our actions. More importantly, it forces us to confront the reality of what actually causes us to behave in any one way. In other words, it forces us to be fully aware of our biology, and to take responsibility for physical or psychological conditions that may predispose us to harmful, anti-social behaviour.

As this episode demonstrates, there are ample means for any well-adjusted individual to take complete control on his or her biology. Helpful drones advise people on the correct calorie intake, and also tell people to take medications to prevent mental/psychological contamination by the environment or other people. There is also ample opportunity, thanks to holographic technology, to create just the right kind of environment that would make any individual happy. Is it not reasonable therefore to assume that anyone who refuses to take such prescriptive measures is on the verge of criminal behaviour, and therefore requires tougher measures to make sure he or she stays in line?
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Old 2012-10-18, 22:52   Link #1071
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As for the Sibyl system and choosing one's job, recall the conversation between Akane and Kagari:
Spoiler:

This seems to imply that the individual can choose whatever job he has the qualifications for, with the Sibyl's selection of best job being a mere suggestion. This is consistent with the all C ranked friend being only able to get blue collar work.

Fundamentally, the system is pretty much how our world works: If you are capable and have the resolve, you'll probably be able to choose a wide range of jobs. If you lack one or both in sufficient quantities, your choices will be more limited. The main difference is how precise the system is in Psycho-Pass and how much people trust the system. Like the dominator's evaluation, the main flaw here appears to be the potential for people to come to rely on it rather than because it's eliminates choice.
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Old 2012-10-18, 22:59   Link #1072
whitecloud
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wow....you have to love the tech they have from holographic tech to changing cloth to augmented reality of the small mirror...i want those....would you?

ok..on to the story.... in psycho pass it seems CC is considered a disease so everyone who have one need to take a meds and suplement, arguably like those anti-anxiety medication.

Also it is detectable from very young age either from normal reading or DNA reading which entitled the person to be treated either way (so if one have hich CC from child the person need to take meds for life? like epileptic)

we see that sybil is actually is not just for crime but also being used for many life aspect like career and it usually right...whether it is against freedom of choice as some commenter said about, isnt it in the end only a suggestion? and sometime when we in confusion help is always appreciated right...

i believe the basis of sybil reading most likely just from seeing past performance record in this case and see the most likely job that good for the person...

we also see that akane is maybe the smartest out of them all, being (maybe) the only person who ever write a thesis in their team...(university grad) with exception of the doctor..

shinya dont exactly bothered by akane shooting him, because it is her right to do so and she has her own method of doing thing

the method that akane when apprehending the person in ep 1 is right and even though usually people not go by it, it is shown when they apprehend the jealous? guy while in stealth mascot suit

P.S : akane is really shy girl, easily depressed but quite considerate of other opinion, naturally kind, can be pro-active and smart, i think that the reason she was picked by cybil to be CID member...what i wonder what is the CID member criteria by sybil...

P.P.S : akane remind me of saber....but unlike saber who is stubborn she is more open to opinion

idea..idea..?
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Old 2012-10-19, 00:21   Link #1073
kk2extreme
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I think that I may be a latent criminal in the world of psycho pass

I wonder what my reading will be...
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Old 2012-10-19, 00:24   Link #1074
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
As expected, the system was solely defined by the enforcers and inspectors, which are basically "encouraged" by the guns, to the point it became an habit, so for a drastic and precise feature such as the psycho pass, they definitely hinder themselves by using the so called "latent criminal"...
Really, that just strengthen the statement that this system as a whole is flawed to no end, since it is momentum and highly circumstancial based, the latter being ignored by most of the sybil system crew. And the numbers determining even the fate of people who hardly had done anything by a long shot (latent criminal at 5? really...?) is textbook dystopia.
I can't really see how one can call medicating a mentally ill child a case of dystopia? I believe that if we could detect psychological issues within individuals before they become a problem we really could prevent all kinds of honorable things from happening.

I remember a news story some years ago were a little boy poisoned his whole family. The reason? He thought it would be funny. The way I see it had a system like Sybil had been around to detect this boy's psychological problems before hand that family would still be alive and the boy would've gotten the help he needed sooner.
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Old 2012-10-19, 00:39   Link #1075
Tenchi Ryu
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WOW...beautiful episode, and like others said...amazing how one episode can put so much on your mind to think about. We discussed many things last week, about the efficiency of this program, to whether or not it comes down to who pulls the trigger. I love the dynamic that was brought up during the one on one talk at his bed, cause it really shows you two sides of the coin. On one hand, we have what many were talking about, how Morals and good judgement can be used. I really liked how he mentioned who wants to PROTECT people, not just take them down.

But I ALSO loved how he showed us the opposite, how he doesn't think about anything except getting out alive. That puts so much to think about, because a lot of that is true. Police officers are human too, and even though they want to protect, I'm sure many also want to come out alive and be able to wake up the next morning. I remember someone here said you'd be surprised how willing the people of this world would go to assure safety, and we kinda see that here. With this program, no matter what its guaranteed the officers should come out alive. While the MC's method luckily did work this time, that might not always work out for her. So it comes down to whether you want to take that risk, or be able to successfully solve the problem with the least casualties possible....

Man, I swear I think this might be my favorite show of the season guys...
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Old 2012-10-19, 00:47   Link #1076
Dark Wing
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Originally Posted by whitecloud View Post
P.S : akane is really shy girl, easily depressed but quite considerate of other opinion, naturally kind, can be pro-active and smart, i think that the reason she was picked by cybil to be CID member...what i wonder what is the CID member criteria by sybil...
Actually from what was said in this episode she exceeded the requirements and could've gotten a job anywhere. However she picked that path solely because she was the only one out of her class who qualified and thought that there must be something she could do there that no one else could. What that something is she doesn't even know yet.

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Man, I swear I think this might be my favorite show of the season guys...
Agreed this episode really added more humanity to these characters.
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Old 2012-10-19, 01:00   Link #1077
TinyRedLeaf
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Actually from what was said in this episode she exceeded the requirements and could've gotten a job anywhere. However she picked that path solely because she was the only one out of her class who qualified and thought that there must be something she could do there that no one else could. What that something is she doesn't even know yet.
I don't know if she doesn't know, but from a viewer's perspective, I'd say it's pretty clear that Akane is destined to become the CID's conscience. That's the one thing she seems eminently suited for, the reason she received an "A" rating for the job. Despite her existential insecurities, Akane demonstrates clearly that she is someone who takes her moral responsibilities very seriously. And that is the one quality the CID unit desperately needs: a moral compass. The Sibyl System quite likely made a very accurate assessment of Akane's psychological profile in this regard.

To put it another way, Akane is to this series what Togusa was to the Ghost in the Shell universe.
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Old 2012-10-19, 01:17   Link #1078
Allium
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While this episode was slower-paced compared to ep 1, it provided us much more insight into the show's premise and characters - and managed to pull it off pretty well, although I felt that the transition from Akane's conversation with Kagari to her visiting Shinya was a bit forced (I think it's just me though).

Other comments:
- I liked the holographic technology stuff, especially the changing of clothes, but personally I'd get a bit annoyed listening to a holographic jellyfish was telling me about my calorie intake.
- The Sibyl System apparently also predicts your future career paths through grades based only on an examination, albeit in a much more 'deterministic' way. I find it mirroring our own society's system of doing things as well, for example, the education system, especially in East Asia such as mentioned by TinyRedLeaf. As with Akane's case, even the highest-scoring graduates are forced to 'wake up' to the reality of their jobs.

These two episodes are a good start to the show. I'd like to know more about the history of Sibyl, why was it implemented, etc etc, but I guess they'll bring it up along the way.
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Old 2012-10-19, 01:38   Link #1079
whitecloud
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what...its nice right being reminded about calorie intake....haha...rather than..what how do i get so fat... i dont think i eat so much???
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Old 2012-10-19, 01:54   Link #1080
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
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Well, it was a very interesting episode. What with the holographic tech. It left me in awe XDD LOL, is it just me, or there are gay women in this show? X33 It was implied XD They're hot too XDD
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