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Old 2012-10-19, 01:48   Link #4721
bludvein
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
It's not actually a good point. You do realized that there's a reason why Guinevere is 'helping' him, right? Even he himself knows it, and is suspicious of Guinevere. Even so, the situation for him was so desperate that he had no choice but to accept 'help' from Guinevere.
Obviously, but Godou is more of a "deal with the immediate problem" type of person. No point in letting Athena run roughshod over everyone just because there is another player with an agenda. He can deal with her afterwards.

I just don't think he was completely at her mercy like you seem to think. Whatever though, since I obviously can't convince you of that and it hardly matters to begin with.

On a side note, when did Athena ever fly? It makes sense she could seeing as she is a patron goddess of witches, but I don't recall her ever doing so. Wouldn't that weaken her because of her earth attribute and render several of her powers unusable?
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Old 2012-10-19, 01:54   Link #4722
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Obviously, but Godou is more of a "deal with the immediate problem" type of person. No point in letting Athena run roughshod over everyone just because there is another player with an agenda. He can deal with her afterwards.

I just don't think he was completely at her mercy like you seem to think. Whatever though, since I obviously can't convince you of that and it hardly matters to begin with.

On a side note, when did Athena ever fly? It makes sense she could seeing as she is a patron goddess of witches, but I don't recall her ever doing so.
She can fly(oops, spoiler), the anime didn't make that up. Godou is the type of person, like most other shounen heroes, who generally tries to choose the best option that would not be morally ambiguous.Like how he tries to save both Hikari and kill Sun-Wukong--even though this would be a bit risky. He did not rule out this option though, but only when there's simply no choice. For this situation, he could have rejected Guinevere's help and go on to beat Athena if he believed he can do it. If he wins, the danger to others would be erased. The fact that he knows Guinevere is up to no good, and yet accepts her 'help' shows how desperate he is and the chances of him winning.
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Old 2012-10-19, 04:05   Link #4723
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she can fly?? :S? ///


ohh yeah i remember .. the first time they meet she came flying .. sorry i had forgotten that part :S
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Old 2012-10-19, 11:07   Link #4724
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Wow, Ena is pretty dedicated to Godou
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Old 2012-10-19, 12:40   Link #4725
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
She can fly(oops, spoiler), the anime didn't make that up. Godou is the type of person, like most other shounen heroes, who generally tries to choose the best option that would not be morally ambiguous.Like how he tries to save both Hikari and kill Sun-Wukong--even though this would be a bit risky. He did not rule out this option though, but only when there's simply no choice. For this situation, he could have rejected Guinevere's help and go on to beat Athena if he believed he can do it. If he wins, the danger to others would be erased. The fact that he knows Guinevere is up to no good, and yet accepts her 'help' shows how desperate he is and the chances of him winning.
Look, you seem to be able to read the original Japanese, so maybe you have a better idea of the desperation or lack thereof in those scenes than the rest of us do. But based on my personal read of the English translated portions of those scenes, it does not appear he was so desperate that he was down to his very last breath. It just wasn't conveyed across. It feels like he still could have had other tricks.

The fact that he doesn't go straight for the kill either makes me think of Godou's character more like: "I'll used anything and everything available to win" .. remember he was going to accept Athena's assistance against Perseus right away if Liliana didn't stop him. He's someone that will use anything and everything to achieve victory -- the fact that he doesn't do so easily is his own fault.
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Old 2012-10-19, 15:46   Link #4726
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Eh, Godou seemed desperate enough to me. Sure, he wasn't getting WTF curb stomped, but it was pretty obvious that Athena had the upper hand unless he did something.
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Old 2012-10-19, 17:26   Link #4727
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Eh, Godou seemed desperate enough to me. Sure, he wasn't getting WTF curb stomped, but it was pretty obvious that Athena had the upper hand unless he did something.
In which fight hasn’t the enemy had the upper hand? He is always the one at a disadvantage and the one being pushed in a corner.

Fact is he only used 2 authorities during the fight. Fact is that Athena only got one hit on him (if I remember right) which had already healed thanks to the Camel because he was able to use Raptor without any kind of physical problems.
He had a lot of options left. He could have combined 2 of his authorities or he could have combined one of his authorities with the sword. He could have used Athenas sucked up authority (whatever that might have been) or he could have mastered the art of becoming an avatar.

Athena was about to use her “freezing” attack. Godou could have defended with the horse like making a fire tornado around himself and Ena. He (might) could have connected the horse and “a gust of wind”(because Ena was in danger) to make a super powerful horse which overpowered the freezing attack and the defense Athena might have prepared(what tells us that she can use 2 authorities at the same time?). He could have combined the sword with the horse to achieve the same goal (the sword has a wind attribute after all) or some new super power. I could go on and on about this. From mastering an avatar to smashing her with as much of the stone ocean as possible.

Yes, he was in a disadvantage position but so was he in every fight he ever was. The holy grail option wasn’t an “oh my god I’m out of option” option but a “what has the highest chance of success” option. Those are after all life and death fights.
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Old 2012-10-19, 19:14   Link #4728
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Originally Posted by Hidfe View Post
In which fight hasn’t the enemy had the upper hand? He is always the one at a disadvantage and the one being pushed in a corner.

Fact is he only used 2 authorities during the fight. Fact is that Athena only got one hit on him (if I remember right) which had already healed thanks to the Camel because he was able to use Raptor without any kind of physical problems.
He had a lot of options left. He could have combined 2 of his authorities or he could have combined one of his authorities with the sword. He could have used Athenas sucked up authority (whatever that might have been) or he could have mastered the art of becoming an avatar.

Athena was about to use her “freezing” attack. Godou could have defended with the horse like making a fire tornado around himself and Ena. He (might) could have connected the horse and “a gust of wind”(because Ena was in danger) to make a super powerful horse which overpowered the freezing attack and the defense Athena might have prepared(what tells us that she can use 2 authorities at the same time?). He could have combined the sword with the horse to achieve the same goal (the sword has a wind attribute after all) or some new super power. I could go on and on about this. From mastering an avatar to smashing her with as much of the stone ocean as possible.

Yes, he was in a disadvantage position but so was he in every fight he ever was. The holy grail option wasn’t an “oh my god I’m out of option” option but a “what has the highest chance of success” option. Those are after all life and death fights.
You can see that he was out of options. He was already saying something along the lines of(not exact) "the horse is the most suitable comeback but I can't use it unless I can somehow get past her defences". From his expressions, you can already tell that Godou was thrown into confusion as to what to do. Athena had every initiative in this fight. The holy grail wasn't just a "what has the highest chance of success" choice, it was a deal with the devil. Godou knows this perfectly.Godou isn't the type of hero who would chose an option just because of it having the highest rate of success. If he was such a person, he would have killed Hikari along with Sun Wukong when he possessed her. As for Kusanagi Sword+the horse, I think Athena knows perfectly well what that sword can actually do. Afterall,she was able to
Spoiler for vol 9:
As for what says Athena can use two powers at the same time, no where did the novel say she could or couldn't. But she can use her powers immediately after another. If her freezing attack is overpowered, she could have quickly switched to using those stone snakes to defend herself, and if those things fall, she could have used her shield immediately. She has a lot of barriers.
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Old 2012-10-19, 21:39   Link #4729
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Just read the update, Godou's mind is still a child when it comes to Gods. His desire still remains to follow Modern society and claims to be a pacifist is getting annoying to me. I thought for sure by 9 volumes he would have grown up already. Erica even called him out on this issue but he only felt anger when being told about this.

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Old 2012-10-19, 22:22   Link #4730
Moe Connection
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Just read the update, Godou's mind is still a child when it comes to Gods. His desire still remains to follow Modern society and claims to be a pacifist is getting annoying to me. I thought for sure by 9 volumes he would have grown up already. Erica even called him out on this issue but he only felt anger when being told about this.
And this view remains to some extent in the future volumes. He gradually knows that the pacifist thing is a facade. But even so, he believes he is a normal person.
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Old 2012-10-19, 22:29   Link #4731
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And this view remains to some extent in the future volumes. He gradually knows that the pacifist thing is a facade. But even so, he believes he is a normal person.
I usually see this with people in denial, the more they deny it the more it is going to haunt them later. Sooner or later Godou will experience this sadly, often I wish for the protagonist to come out okay and maintain who he is at the end, but this is different. Godou face Campiones and Gods who could have easily killed him and the people he cared about like nothing, only to make it out as okay and the outcome is favorable as being lucky. It occured multiple time and usually when Protagonist face these situation they prepare or train to ensure it won't happen again. Godou doesn't, that is a problem. Chances are that luck is going to run out and Godou will see the extent of how naive he is at a great cost. There is going to be an enemy who will not fool around and outright kill him.
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Old 2012-10-19, 22:33   Link #4732
Moe Connection
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I usually see this with people in denial, the more they deny it the more it is going to haunt them later. Sooner or later Godou will experience this sadly, often I wish for the protagonist to come out okay and maintain who he is at the end, but this is different. Godou face Campiones and Gods who could have easily killed him and the people he cared about like nothing, only to make it out as okay and the outcome is favorable as being lucky. It occured multiple time and usually when Protagonist face these situation they prepare or train to ensure it won't happen again. Godou doesn't, that is a problem. Chances are that luck is going to run out and Godou will see the extent of how naive he is at a great cost. There is going to be an enemy who will not fool around and outright kill him.
I kinda hope he becomes like Issei from dxd. It's time he comes to accept that things will become more and more different than before.
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Old 2012-10-19, 22:53   Link #4733
ReaperxKingx
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I kinda hope he becomes like Issei from dxd. It's time he comes to accept that things will become more and more different than before.
In a way I agree with you, just only with the way Ise accept his new reality while Godou has difficulty with it.
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Old 2012-10-19, 23:08   Link #4734
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I kinda hope he becomes like Issei from dxd. It's time he comes to accept that things will become more and more different than before.
Honestly, I think being a King is part of the reason he's so in denial. In Issei's case, he couldn't act like that even if he wanted to, since he became one of Rias's followers. He got included in devil society, got a job and other various responsibilities to fulfill as a devil. Hard to be in denial then.

Compared to Issei, everyone lets Godou do whatever he wants, since he's a King. That gives him the self-indulgence to be as stubborn and in denial as wants.
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Old 2012-10-20, 00:30   Link #4735
Moe Connection
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Honestly, I think being a King is part of the reason he's so in denial. In Issei's case, he couldn't act like that even if he wanted to, since he became one of Rias's followers. He got included in devil society, got a job and other various responsibilities to fulfill as a devil. Hard to be in denial then.

Compared to Issei, everyone lets Godou do whatever he wants, since he's a King. That gives him the self-indulgence to be as stubborn and in denial as wants.
Speaking of which, I am starting to see Godou's character as underdeveloped compared to Issei. Thirteen volumes into the series, I have yet to see Godou's goal in life. What sort of life does he want to live? What does he want to do after he gets out of school? Instead of saying I want to be normal, he should ask himself what do you wanna be as a normal person? It's hard to picture him becoming a normal salary-man who skips work just to fight gods. He doesn't even ask himself why should he be normal?Is there even a reason he should even be normal?Issei is a better character in comparison because he has already mapped out his future. He plans to become a king, but even after attaining his goal, he would not discard his innate human.
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Old 2012-10-20, 00:48   Link #4736
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That's a good point actually. Even though we as the readers know his life is pretty much on a one-way street atm, Godou himself has no long-term goals. His dreams or ambitions are never discussed.

That is definitely something Issei has on him. Issei works his ass off because he has something in mind. Godou just deals with immediate problems that crop up out of a flaky sense of responsibility. He doesn't enjoy it(or at least claims he doesn't) and he clearly doesn't feel enough responsibility to actually prepare in advance for these situations. Its distinctly half-assed.

Got a feeling this attitude is definitely going to come to a head in the next few volumes.

EDIT: BTW way to go zzhk! You are a translating machine.
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Old 2012-10-20, 01:28   Link #4737
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Speaking of which, I am starting to see Godou's character as underdeveloped compared to Issei. Thirteen volumes into the series, I have yet to see Godou's goal in life. What sort of life does he want to live? What does he want to do after he gets out of school? Instead of saying I want to be normal, he should ask himself what do you wanna be as a normal person? It's hard to picture him becoming a normal salary-man who skips work just to fight gods. He doesn't even ask himself why should he be normal?Is there even a reason he should even be normal?Issei is a better character in comparison because he has already mapped out his future. He plans to become a king, but even after attaining his goal, he would not discard his innate human.
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That's a good point actually. Even though we as the readers know his life is pretty much on a one-way street atm, Godou himself has no long-term goals. His dreams or ambitions are never discussed.

That is definitely something Issei has on him. Issei works his ass off because he has something in mind. Godou just deals with immediate problems that crop up out of a flaky sense of responsibility. He doesn't enjoy it(or at least claims he doesn't) and he clearly doesn't feel enough responsibility to actually prepare in advance for these situations. Its distinctly half-assed.

Got a feeling this attitude is definitely going to come to a head in the next few volumes.

EDIT: BTW way to go zzhk! You are a translating machine.
It's true that we haven't heard anything about Godou's goals or ambitions. To be fair, I think that's because of Godou quitting baseball. By all accounts Godou was very serious about baseball, I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to be a professional player one day. Not being able to play anymore must have been a shock.

We often talk about Godou being half-assed as a Campione, but that's not the only thing he half-asses. He does that with everything. He doesn't even seem to have any hobbies or interests that he does by himself. he doesn't socialize unless someone asks him to go somewhere. He reads occasionally, but he isn't a reader. He plays video games occasionally, but he's not a gamer. He fishes and joins pickup games, but only out of boredom. He just reacts to everything, and seems not to have any real interest or like for anything other than fighting. In a way, he's like Salvatore only with common sense.
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Old 2012-10-20, 05:15   Link #4738
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It's true that we haven't heard anything about Godou's goals or ambitions. To be fair, I think that's because of Godou quitting baseball. By all accounts Godou was very serious about baseball, I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to be a professional player one day. Not being able to play anymore must have been a shock.

We often talk about Godou being half-assed as a Campione, but that's not the only thing he half-asses. He does that with everything. He doesn't even seem to have any hobbies or interests that he does by himself. he doesn't socialize unless someone asks him to go somewhere. He reads occasionally, but he isn't a reader. He plays video games occasionally, but he's not a gamer. He fishes and joins pickup games, but only out of boredom. He just reacts to everything, and seems not to have any real interest or like for anything other than fighting. In a way, he's like Salvatore only with common sense.
well if godou's amtions were either " ı will be the king of Campiones" or "ı will save the world from darkness"or to some "ı will be harem king", what would make this story interesting. there are all sorts of people. everyone reading this should look at themselves, everyone of us have different attidutes to life. well in every volume my expectation from this light novel is what will happen to him this time. ı expect new things not an old enemy makes appearence and each time we saw his new techniques.

as for his not having an ambition for god's sake he is high school first year. if someone said ı would study linguistic in university ı would say what are you talking about. people change in time. ı mean ı was a nerd when ı started high school and planing to study medicine. now ı was laughing what a strange person ı was. as for godou he is just a kid at the age of 16 and was a normal person. you can't ask him turn into a barbarian and murder anyone before you or go on adventure and kill gods. he calls himself normal. so it is normal to get angry when someone annoys you. even a pacifist can fight when his life is at risk. so saying he likes fighting why he is acting as if he is pacifist is ridicilous. ı am stupid person in order to be a nice person ı even didn't say anything against a person who kept insulting me and didn't even get angry and called myself understanding but another time got angry for stupid reason and tried smash person's head to wall. ı regret this action even today but ı thought it was right reation. which one would you call me "understanding" or "violent person who likes fighting" or even a complete idiot. really ı won't get angry well it is up to my mood.

all in all ı find Godou someone who is rather normal except his relation to magic world and his relation with girls because of it. well there are really lucky guys in real world as well
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Old 2012-10-20, 05:26   Link #4739
Moe Connection
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well if godou's amtions were either " ı will be the king of Campiones" or "ı will save the world from darkness"or to some "ı will be harem king", what would make this story interesting. there are all sorts of people. everyone reading this should look at themselves, everyone of us have different attidutes to life. well in every volume my expectation from this light novel is what will happen to him this time. ı expect new things not an old enemy makes appearence and each time we saw his new techniques.

as for his not having an ambition for god's sake he is high school first year. if someone said ı would study linguistic in university ı would say what are you talking about. people change in time. ı mean ı was a nerd when ı started high school and planing to study medicine. now ı was laughing what a strange person ı was. as for godou he is just a kid at the age of 16 and was a normal person. you can't ask him turn into a barbarian and murder anyone before you or go on adventure and kill gods. he calls himself normal. so it is normal to get angry when someone annoys you. even a pacifist can fight when his life is at risk. so saying he likes fighting why he is acting as if he is pacifist is ridicilous. ı am stupid person in order to be a nice person ı even didn't say anything against a person who kept insulting me and didn't even get angry and called myself understanding but another time got angry for stupid reason and tried smash person's head to wall. ı regret this action even today but ı thought it was right reation. which one would you call me "understanding" or "violent person who likes fighting" or even a complete idiot. really ı won't get angry well it is up to my mood.

all in all ı find Godou someone who is rather normal except his relation to magic world and his relation with girls because of it. well there are really lucky guys in real world as well
He likes fighting. He admits himself that the whole thing about pacifism was a lie.
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Old 2012-10-20, 06:53   Link #4740
Gore17
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
That's a good point actually. Even though we as the readers know his life is pretty much on a one-way street atm, Godou himself has no long-term goals. His dreams or ambitions are never discussed.

That is definitely something Issei has on him. Issei works his ass off because he has something in mind. Godou just deals with immediate problems that crop up out of a flaky sense of responsibility. He doesn't enjoy it(or at least claims he doesn't) and he clearly doesn't feel enough responsibility to actually prepare in advance for these situations. Its distinctly half-assed.

Got a feeling this attitude is definitely going to come to a head in the next few volumes.

EDIT: BTW way to go zzhk! You are a translating machine.
Actually, does he have a goal in life? Endscape might be right, if he's goal in life was to become a professional baseball player, then he's probably quite lost right now.

And personally, I think his denial and refusal of the situation, is him being "a selfish inconsiderate person". From what we've seen, all the Campione have a egotisical and stubborn personality in some way, and Godou's denial is just how it expresses itself in him. Combined with the fact that things turn out okay for him in the end, and it results in him refusing to change.

...Actually, now that I think about it, none of the Campione's truly have a "goal" in life. Even Alec was looking for the Holy Grail on what was basically a whim. It makes sense, actually. They're nigh-invincible, immortal battle-maniacs, who have the entire world at their finger tips, with very little that can actually challenge them. Their is simply nothing that could be a suitable life goal for them.

...I'm reminded of Exalted, actually.
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