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Old 2012-10-21, 11:13   Link #101
james0246
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The comparisons can be made amongst the characters that are currently living. That's how it works; it's all relative to the times/era. If the world acknowledges someone as the strongest, and there's no one to contest that title to prove otherwise, then that person will irrefutably be declared as such. That being said, the title of "strongest" is still up for grabs.
The world only acknowledged Whitebeard as the "Strongest" because someone of greater fame (Roger) bestowed the title upon him. Since there is currently know one of Roger's fame active (maybe Dragon?), the title of Strongest is relatively meaningless.

That being said, I do agree that it is a generational idea, and that the title will have meaning in the future, I just don't see it as having meaning presently or in the near future.
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Old 2012-10-21, 11:21   Link #102
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
The world only acknowledged Whitebeard as the "Strongest" because someone of greater fame (Roger) bestowed the title upon him. Since there is currently know one of Roger's fame active (maybe Dragon?), the title of Strongest is relatively meaningless.
Roger bestowed the title upon Whitebeard? That doesn't make sense though because Roger was Whitebeard's equal, and thus Whitebeard wasn't the strongest when Roger was alive (they were equals). No, after Roger's death, the title was transferred to Whitebeard by default because no one else proved to be Roger's exact equal.
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Old 2012-10-21, 11:26   Link #103
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There is no way Whitebeard is stronger than Roger,Kong and Sengoku pre skip. I see them as equals just like Roger.
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Old 2012-10-21, 11:27   Link #104
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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There is no way Whitebeard is stronger than Roger,Kong and Sengoku pre skip. I see them as equals just like Roger.
Too bad that Oda himself said Whitebeard was the strongest pre-time-skip. So you're basically saying that Oda is wrong which is silly.
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Old 2012-10-21, 11:46   Link #105
james0246
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Roger bestowed the title upon Whitebeard? That doesn't make sense though because Roger was Whitebeard's equal, and thus Whitebeard wasn't the strongest when Roger was alive (they were equals). No, after Roger's death, the title was transferred to Whitebeard by default because no one else proved to be Roger's exact equal.
Sorry, I misspoke. I didn't mean Roger literally gave Whitebeard his title, but rather by being Roger's equal Whitebeard gained the title (and no, I do not think Roger was the "Strongest" before his death (with regards to the title); he was the Pirate King, and King trumps Strongest imo).
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Old 2012-10-21, 11:59   Link #106
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Sorry, I misspoke. I didn't mean Roger literally gave Whitebeard his title, but rather by being Roger's equal Whitebeard gained the title (and no, I do not think Roger was the "Strongest" before his death (with regards to the title); he was the Pirate King, and King trumps Strongest imo).
Even though Whitebeard was never interested in becoming the pirate king, overall, Roger was in a class of his own by virtue of his lineage, title, and him being the biggest eyesore/criminal to the World Government and marines. His death in itself sparked a whole new age of piracy; that speaks volumes of just how powerful his status and influence was.

Speaking of titles, I've always been interested in Rayleigh's title "Dark King". Perhaps the "dark" is indicative of him being under Roger's shadow throughout his pirate career.
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Old 2012-10-21, 12:02   Link #107
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Roger and Whitebeard are equals, though what is different about them is that Whitebeard has the Gura Gura no Mi while Roger just use Haki.
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Old 2012-10-21, 12:07   Link #108
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Roger and Whitebeard are equals, though what is different about them is that Whitebeard has the Gura Gura no Mi while Roger just use Haki.
Well, we don't know if Roger had a DF or not.
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Old 2012-10-21, 12:13   Link #109
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Well, we don't know if Roger had a DF or not.
True, but we should have gotten some information about it now. He is frequently mention, then again maybe there will be more mysteries brought up.
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Old 2012-10-21, 12:19   Link #110
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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True, but we should have gotten some information about it now. He is frequently mention, then again maybe there will be more mysteries brought up.
When Whitebeard was first introduced, we had no information about his combat abilities whatsoever. Then came the war at Marineford, and we found out he possessed the destructive quake ability. This may also be the case when we find out more about Roger in due time. If he wasn't a DF user, I won't be surprised in the slightest seeing as how it's very possible to reach the top through sheer haki mastery.
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Old 2012-10-21, 13:03   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Even though Whitebeard was never interested in becoming the pirate king, overall, Roger was in a class of his own by virtue of his lineage, title, and him being the biggest eyesore/criminal to the World Government and marines. His death in itself sparked a whole new age of piracy; that speaks volumes of just how powerful his status and influence was.

Speaking of titles, I've always been interested in Rayleigh's title "Dark King". Perhaps the "dark" is indicative of him being under Roger's shadow throughout his pirate career.

Maybe, but "Dark King" was subber translation from "Mei-O" 冥王, it's Japanese (and Chinese) way of referring to Pluto/Hades.

While 冥's primary meaning is darkness and night, it's secondary meaning is death and afterlife.

We know Roger's crew kills, maybe it also means that Rayleigh is extremely good at that....
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Old 2012-10-21, 14:26   Link #112
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You know, all this just makes me wonder about Dragon's abilities. All we know is that he at one point made lightning strike a town square.
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Old 2012-10-21, 15:08   Link #113
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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You know, all this just makes me wonder about Dragon's abilities. All we know is that he at one point made lightning strike a town square.
Dragon creating that lightning strike to save Luffy's life from execution is speculation. What we do know is that he created that massive green gust of wind that swept aside Smoker and everyone else like nothing. But yes, I'm rather curious about Dragon myself as well. He's guaranteed to be ridiculously powerful.
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Old 2012-10-21, 15:31   Link #114
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Too bad that Oda himself said Whitebeard was the strongest pre-time-skip. So you're basically saying that Oda is wrong which is silly.
WB isn't stronger than Garp, Sengoku and Kong pre skip.Titles are overrated in the manga. Let's take two examples. Mihawk who has the title who should be superior to every swordsman in the OP universe had to post pone his fight with Vista. Sentomaru who bragged about having the best defense in the world has little feats and if he really does he would have the durability of Prime Whitebeard.
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Old 2012-10-21, 15:32   Link #115
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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WB isn't stronger than Garp, Sengoku and Kong pre skip on the marines. Titles are overrated in the manga. Let's take two examples. Mihawk who has the title who should be superior to every swordsman in the OP universe had to post pone his fight with Vista. Sentomaru who bragged about having the best defense in the world has little feats and if he really does he would have the durability of Prime Whitebeard.
Once again, Oda says that you're wrong. Deal with it.
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Old 2012-10-21, 15:40   Link #116
Kona
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Once again, Oda says that you're wrong. Deal with it.
Nice arguement you got going. Hey if you believe WB is stronger than Sengoku, Kong and Garp can't change that but he isn't.
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Old 2012-10-21, 15:43   Link #117
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Nice arguement you got going. Hey if you believe WB is stronger than Sengoku, Kong and Garp can't change that but he isn't.
What argument? I'm just reiterating what Oda said in the manga. That's all.
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Old 2012-10-21, 16:10   Link #118
Kona
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One thing we know for sure is this: Gol D. Roger had only one equal in combat: Whitebeard. They said Garp fought Roger a lot of times as well, but not on equal footing like Whitebeard did. None of the Marines could match up with Gol, that's already a confirmation that in his prime Whitebeard was stronger then Garp, Sengoku and Kong. Why do you think things changed as they grew older? If you want a source then: I don't remember where it was, just reread the whole manga again, you seem to need it.

Roger isn't stronger than Rayleigh. WB isn't stronger than Sengoku, Kong and Garp because if he was he would defeat them. There is very little info about these characters and how exactly the age was but WB isn't stronger than those 3.
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Old 2012-10-21, 16:12   Link #119
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Roger isn't stronger than Rayleigh. WB isn't stronger than Sengoku, Kong and Garp because if he was he would defeat them. There is very little info about these characters and how exactly the age was but WB isn't stronger than those 3.
Wow. Whatever you're trying to do, it's just not working. Give it up; the members here know better than to respond seriously to garbage like this.

------

It's interesting seeing how well Smoker is faring against Vergo. That just reinforces the notion that Doflamingo and his goons shouldn't be that far ahead of the strawhats in terms of strength (if they even are, which is beginning to become questionable). Monet really doesn't stand a chance against Zoro; she even outright stated she was no match for Luffy, so by extension that should equate to Zoro as well.
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Old 2012-10-21, 16:26   Link #120
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Wow. Whatever you're trying to do, it's just not working. Give it up; the members here know better than to respond seriously to garbage like this.
Where has it shown WB defeating Kong, Sengoku and Garp?
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