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Old 2012-10-21, 16:32   Link #121
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona View Post
Where has it shown WB defeating Kong, Sengoku and Garp?
Have Kong, Sengoku, and Garp, ever fought Roger to a tie? Ask yourself that question.
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Old 2012-10-21, 16:51   Link #122
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Please stop with this discussion, it is turning ugly fast.
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Old 2012-10-21, 16:58   Link #123
Kona
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Have Kong, Sengoku, and Garp, ever fought Roger to a tie? Ask yourself that question.
Garp and Sengoku were the only ones out the 3 to fight Roger. Never said anything about them defeating or having a tie with another so there are all considered equals until we see more info about that age.
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Old 2012-10-21, 17:17   Link #124
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Please stop with this discussion, it is turning ugly fast.
Don't worry, James. I'm not going to reply to this discussion any further. Especially when looking at Kona's last response on the subject matter, he's beyond any help.

-----

What I'm really curious about was Momonosuke's hallucination showing Doflamingo's face in the background.
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Old 2012-10-21, 21:20   Link #125
paradox13
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Roger isn't stronger than Rayleigh. WB isn't stronger than Sengoku, Kong and Garp because if he was he would defeat them. There is very little info about these characters and how exactly the age was but WB isn't stronger than those 3.
What a childish argument.

1) Roger is stronger than Rayleigh, just like Luffy is stronger than Zoro. Zoro himself acknowledged Luffy as stronger, and other characters have mentioned that someone with Zoro's personality would not follow a weaker captain. There are clear parallels between Rayleigh and Zoro. Last but not least, Roger as the man who conquered the Grandline and the New World, widely known to be the strongest man in the world in his prime. How can he not have been stronger than Rayleigh?

2) Whitebeard was acknowledged as the strongest man in the world by both Sengoku and Oda himself (you know Oda? he's the guy who writes the manga). If you start questioning even these axiomatic facts, than there is no point in us having a discussion in the first place.

3) Whitebeard was the only man to have fought Roger to a draw. He was able to decimate Akainu in his old age. He may not have been able to beat Sengoku and Garp together, just like how Shiki couldn't, but it is conclusive to say that he would have been able to beat Sengoku/Garp one on one (even if it would have been a close match, like the duel between Akainu and Aokiji).
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Old 2012-10-21, 23:24   Link #126
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
What a childish argument.

1) Roger is stronger than Rayleigh, just like Luffy is stronger than Zoro. Zoro himself acknowledged Luffy as stronger, and other characters have mentioned that someone with Zoro's personality would not follow a weaker captain. There are clear parallels between Rayleigh and Zoro. Last but not least, Roger as the man who conquered the Grandline and the New World, widely known to be the strongest man in the world in his prime. How can he not have been stronger than Rayleigh?

2) Whitebeard was acknowledged as the strongest man in the world by both Sengoku and Oda himself (you know Oda? he's the guy who writes the manga). If you start questioning even these axiomatic facts, than there is no point in us having a discussion in the first place.

3) Whitebeard was the only man to have fought Roger to a draw. He was able to decimate Akainu in his old age. He may not have been able to beat Sengoku and Garp together, just like how Shiki couldn't, but it is conclusive to say that he would have been able to beat Sengoku/Garp one on one (even if it would have been a close match, like the duel between Akainu and Aokiji).
1.Show me a panel where it says Roger is stronger than Rayeligh, same with Luffy being stronger than Zoro

2.Being the WSM doesn't mean you are stronger and can beat all the top tiers. Where has it shown WB beating these so called weaker characters?

3.I don't remember it being said fighting a draw. That's pure speculation on your part thinking WB can beat Sengoku/Garp/Kong one on one. All he has is his hype and "WSM" title.
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Old 2012-10-21, 23:50   Link #127
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Roger was The King of the Pirates for a reason. Rayeligh was his 1st mate and his subordinate. That's all the proof you need to show that Roger was stronger than the Dark King.

Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-10-22 at 00:01. Reason: Let's not be rude here...
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Old 2012-10-21, 23:55   Link #128
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Originally Posted by DreGon45 View Post
Roger was The King of the Pirates for a reason. Rayeligh was his 1st mate and his subordinate. That's all the proof you need to show that Roger was stronger than the Dark King.
That's good to hear he was the pirate king.. now where does it say him being stronger than Rayleigh?
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Old 2012-10-21, 23:55   Link #129
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
What a childish argument.

1) Roger is stronger than Rayleigh, just like Luffy is stronger than Zoro. Zoro himself acknowledged Luffy as stronger, and other characters have mentioned that someone with Zoro's personality would not follow a weaker captain. There are clear parallels between Rayleigh and Zoro. Last but not least, Roger as the man who conquered the Grandline and the New World, widely known to be the strongest man in the world in his prime. How can he not have been stronger than Rayleigh?

2) Whitebeard was acknowledged as the strongest man in the world by both Sengoku and Oda himself (you know Oda? he's the guy who writes the manga). If you start questioning even these axiomatic facts, than there is no point in us having a discussion in the first place.

3) Whitebeard was the only man to have fought Roger to a draw. He was able to decimate Akainu in his old age. He may not have been able to beat Sengoku and Garp together, just like how Shiki couldn't, but it is conclusive to say that he would have been able to beat Sengoku/Garp one on one (even if it would have been a close match, like the duel between Akainu and Aokiji).
"If I can't even protect my captain's dream, whatever ambitions I have is nothing but just talk!" Zoro
I don't dispute that White Beard title has the strongest. His title has the strongest man was earned and He held up that title very well (especially at Marine ford). Has for Rogers and Rayleigh, Luffy and Zoro things may not be what people assume. Remember Rogers was dying of a disease, he needed Croucus just to keep it in check. So it would make sense to for Rayleigh to be has powerful if not stronger then Rogers. If any challenger tried to go after Rogers or challenge his title has king, it would make sense that Rayleigh would be the first obstacle in there path. If you can't beat the first mate then what chance would you have at the captain? This would be a great cover for a dying Rogers. Rayleigh also proved he can use all three haki branches. Rayleigh fought on even footing with Kizaru, what was he like in his prime? Was he has strong has Shanks is now or stronger? Has for Zoro and Luffy, I won't be surprised if Zoro is on equal footing with Luffy in power. Zoro's character in this story is treated differently then any of the characters in Straw hat Crew besides Luffy. In a recent chapter 677 the other half of the team meet up with Luffy finally for the counter attack. Luffy mentions "Its Zoro and the others." Why did not not just say others or Sanji and the others? People have mistaken Zoro for the captain, also certain events like ending with thriller bark, and Zoro lecturing Luffy on being careful leads me to believe differently about Zoro's true strength when compared to Luffy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona View Post
2.Being the WSM doesn't mean you are stronger and can beat all the top tiers. Where has it shown WB beating these so called weaker characters?
How has the man not proven himself?
He is one of the four Yonkous, he trashed Marineford, the Marines needed the shichibukai, admirals, and might of the marines elite to take him on. He even Gold Rogers rival. If Rogers the only man to rival him is dead then that would leave White Beard at the time the strongest (I kinda wish Oda has shown Garp off a little more in the Marine Ford war since he fought with Rogers too).

Last edited by grey_1960; 2012-10-22 at 00:33. Reason: More things to add
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Old 2012-10-22, 00:46   Link #130
ronin myael
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this discussion reminds me of the many discussions we've had about op power levels.

as for dragon's powers, most readers think that he has some sort of DF that can manipulate the weather. but isn't haki supposed to have some sort of control over the weather as well? correct me if i'm wrong here but when whitebeard and shanks crossed swords, the sky grew dark, thunder rumbled and lightning struck. some say it was the effect of the power of their haki. they were so strong that it affected the weather. if that's the case, then dragon could simply have a really powerful haki strong enough to affect the weather.
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Old 2012-10-22, 01:14   Link #131
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Originally Posted by Kona View Post
That's good to hear he was the pirate king.. now where does it say him being stronger than Rayleigh?
Where does it prove the later is stronger than the former?
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Old 2012-10-22, 01:41   Link #132
paradox13
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Quote:
2.Being the WSM doesn't mean you are stronger and can beat all the top tiers.
What?

Do you know the definition of 'strongest'?

Quote:
That's good to hear he was the pirate king.. now where does it say him being stronger than Rayleigh?
Definition of pirate king: world's strongest man, someone who has conquered Grand Line
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Old 2012-10-22, 04:03   Link #133
ronin myael
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Originally Posted by bigdeal000 View Post
I'll try to stop, but Kona's getting attention even if he does not want it. Posting obvious bullshit is not something that can be ignored that easily. Plus, the irony here is just...on the Wano "debate" he was saying something is impossible because we have no concrete proof about it(which, in reality, does not render the so-called "dream" impossible). Now, when we have proof, his opinion is better, simply because is his opinion, simply because he refuses to see the proof, so suddenly "having no proof" means there is a possibility Whitebeard was not the strongest? WTF? Tell me if that isn't annoying-it was funny at first, but it's getting annoying.
my thoughts exactly!
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Old 2012-10-22, 07:30   Link #134
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Agreed...

Nicely said....
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Old 2012-10-22, 10:04   Link #135
Kona
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
What?

Do you know the definition of 'strongest'?



Definition of pirate king: world's strongest man, someone who has conquered Grand Line
Where does it say him being stronger than Garp, Sengoku and Kong? There isn't so let this go. You have proof that it says WB and Roger are stronger than them you can prove me wrong when we get more information but stop acting like your opinion is a fact. It's funny when people post their opinion and they act like it's a fact, when it's just a speculated guess.
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Old 2012-10-22, 10:37   Link #136
paradox13
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Where does it say him being stronger than Garp, Sengoku and Kong? There isn't so let this go.
Are you just trolling?

Strongest i.e. most strong; Adjective:
Greatest in amount or degree: "they've had the most success"; "they had the most to lose".

If you are the 'most' strong, than there can be no other stronger than you. This is axiomatically true; by definition, if you are the 'strongest', you are automatically stronger than every other individual. In the OP world, the strongest was Roger, and then Whitebeard.

I can try and find you the chapter where Whitebeard was titled 'the strongest man in the world' but I trust that this matter has now been resolved and we can discuss more productive issues.
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Old 2012-10-22, 10:44   Link #137
Kona
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Are you just trolling?

Strongest i.e. most strong; Adjective:
Greatest in amount or degree: "they've had the most success"; "they had the most to lose".

If you are the 'most' strong, than there can be no other stronger than you. This is axiomatically true; by definition, if you are the 'strongest', you are automatically stronger than every other individual. In the OP world, the strongest was Roger, and then Whitebeard.

I can try and find you the chapter where Whitebeard was titled 'the strongest man in the world' but I trust that this matter has now been resolved and we can discuss more productive issues.
Just like Mihawk the WSS having a stalemate with Vista and asking him to postpone the match? Titles are overrated in this manga.
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Old 2012-10-22, 11:21   Link #138
james0246
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This cyclical argument has gone on long enough. This is my final warning on the matter, all future posts concerning this "argument" will be deleted and potentially infracted. Move On.
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Old 2012-10-22, 18:59   Link #139
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Uh.... yeah, just want to mention that I most likely won't be able to make the new thread on time once again due to my computer troubles (I am HOPING that it'll finally be repaired by this weekend though, at least). So yeah, just letting you guys know in advance....
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Old 2012-10-23, 09:04   Link #140
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Not like there is anything else to talk about anyway.
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