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Old 2012-10-22, 11:19   Link #141
james0246
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
It is not guaranteed that there are no real threats, regardless of one's own skill - Mabui could teleport stuff around the world too, Oonoki could fly, the previous Raikage could...only die by his own fists(?) and Minato proved himself a force to be reckoned with, even for a ninja with Obito's powers. Not to mention that, in the end, Obito only had a suspicious mentor and a few clones on his side, not really the best situation to go around stealing hidden weapons.
Pardon, I didn't mean in regards to fighting Obito was the top. Clearly there were others that could fight and potentially defeat him (all those you listed could have put Obito in his place...probably). Rather, Obito had the power of literally sneaking in anywhere, grabbing whomever he desired, then simply fading into the ether from whence he came. His powers do not require confrontation, and confrontation is ultimately stupid for his supposed agenda (unless it is his goal to gather all the armies together in one section of the world to genjutsu them at once).
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Old 2012-10-22, 12:22   Link #142
Kafriel
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Well, on further thought, only Minato would be nearly always around Naruto, the rest of the jinchuuriki should be isolated enough for him to capture without hindrance...
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Old 2012-10-22, 13:06   Link #143
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Those flashbacks meant to clear things up started with a shot of all the adult graduating together when they are years apart from one another and weren't supposed to graduate at the same time (for example Anko wasn't even supposed to be born when Kakashi graduated at 5 years old), showed Sarutobi and his team to be already old folks, had Yondaime's face on mount Hokage whereas he was still a Jounin next to the already cracked face of the 3rd 15 years before it happened.
I think you are too strict here, these minor inconsistencies are not noticed by most of the readers so we can live with that. A great director said once: "Continuity is for pussies!", that's what comes to my mind when we see the age problem in the flashbacks. To have all the current sensei generation shown to the readers can be more important than some problems with not born Anko, etc. It's very similar to the strange phenomenon that all the great ninja of konoha come from Naruto's class or 1 year older class that happen to have the chuunin exam at the exact same year

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More seriously you can wonder about that all day why did he attack Konoha, why does he want to see an Uchiha fight a Senju, why did he play the part of Madara when he was alone or with Zetsu, his very introduction when the Zetsus wondered about Tobi the good boy, his willingness to show his face to Sasuke before it was stopped or why let Kakashi keep his eye, or any of the other dozen or so problems already pointed out previously but there is only one shared answer to all those : Obito was playing the part of Madara to his audience and his audience was us.
Well i must admit that the assumption that Madara's will was driving Obito to do these things is not a satisfactory explanation. A satisfactory explanation would be where Madara's will and Obito's personality are mixed in some messy way so that Tobi's thinking is neither rational nor emotional, but a schizophrenic mix of these two very different personalities. For example a fated Sasuke vs Naruto fight has to be the emotional Madara's goal, neither Obito nor the old rational Madara would want a fight that should not matter to them any more. Then Tobi playing the idiot when he joins akatsuki seemed to me as if Obito played the old himself, doing that had nothing to do with Madara's will or personality.

There weren't any really crazy/insane people in this manga yet, it would be really cool if Tobi turned out to be one Unfortunately that would be too dark for this type of manga.
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Old 2012-10-22, 14:07   Link #144
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^ You mean Sasuke isn't? I still remember his face when he killed Danzou...
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Old 2012-10-22, 14:13   Link #145
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Orochimaru fits the role pretty well. No delusions about what he is doing, no self righteousness, no stupid "for the greater good" reason behind his actions. He understands who he is and what he has done. This is exactly why I still think Zabuza is the best villain(for the lack of a better word) I have seen in Naruto.
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Old 2012-10-22, 15:17   Link #146
Ero-Senn1n
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^ You mean Sasuke isn't? I still remember his face when he killed Danzou...
I meant more than that, to be really insane like for example the guy in Psycho. And that's irreversible, not like in the case of Gaara or Sasuke.

But now that i think of it, Kakashi has a really fucked up life. People debate who had the worst childhood/life, but just think about Kakashi. His father killed himself, his sensei was killed, he lost Obito and then had to kill Rin. Sasuke tries to kill him and announces that he will destroy konoha and kill everybody. And the one thing that was very important to him were Obito's words that Kakashi tells to team7 in the beginning of the manga. And now even his memories of Obito are being broken. And that is one of the reasons why i didn't believe that the author will break Kakashi's memories of Obito by him being Tobi.
If that's not the most fucked up life i don't know what is it. People in akatsuki have betrayed their villages for less than that. But he is extremely loyal to Konoha, he even died for Konoha fighting Pain. If we look at things from that perspective then Sasuke and Obito are simply selfish emo boys
No wonder that Kakashi escaped to a dream world from reality by reading Jiraiya's books. Kakashi's only hope is Naruto now, the only bright spot in his life that didn't fade away.
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Old 2012-10-22, 17:05   Link #147
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*to be fair the author corrected 2 of those in the release of the tankoubon.
Which 2 are those?
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Old 2012-10-22, 18:06   Link #148
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I think you are too strict here [...]
There is a reason I started my next paragraph by "more seriously". I took those examples in jest to say that those small incoherences were introducing the big ones to follow.
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It's very similar to the strange phenomenon that all the great ninja of konoha come from Naruto's class or 1 year older class that happen to have the chuunin exam at the exact same year
There are great ninjas save for Naruto and Sasuke? Must have missing them.
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Which 2 are those?
The Elders's wrinkles and Yondaime's face.
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Old 2012-10-22, 21:10   Link #149
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There are great ninjas save for Naruto and Sasuke? Must have missing them.
I don't think one has to be above kage level to be great. Even Tenten made a great performance in this war with that legendary fan
What i mean is that apart from those who were in the chuunin exam everybody else remained a noname nobody, the only thing Kishimoto tells us that half of them died even before Madara crushed them with the meteor. And somehow all the named characters survived, considering so many casualties they surely have to be great ninja to survive

Speaking of which, there was another wasted chance for the anime team to make good fillers. What about those who graduated 1,2 or 3 years before Neji, or 1-2 years after Naruto. Why not having some talents there that make an appearance in the war instead of showing konohamaru and moms with frying pans against evil sumo wrestlers.
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Old 2012-10-22, 21:50   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Speaking of which, there was another wasted chance for the anime team to make good fillers. What about those who graduated 1,2 or 3 years before Neji, or 1-2 years after Naruto. Why not having some talents there that make an appearance in the war instead of showing konohamaru and moms with frying pans against evil sumo wrestlers.
Why on earth would we want to see the "Not Konoha 12!" when we barely see the real Konoha 12 as it is? There probably was a Team 9 in Naruto's class. Do we care about them? No!

Oh, and I honestly think Kishi showed all the adults graduating together, despite the timeline inconsistencies, to set something up when the army finally arrives. It will be part of Naruto's TnJ to Obito. I predict Obito will see Naruto's buddies and be reminded of his own generation and all its tragedy. He'll see in Naruto what he could of been without the giant rock and creepy old man messing with him.

We are just waiting for Obito's breakdown, apology to Kakashi, embrace of the Will of Fire, and then Heroic Sacrifice.
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Old 2012-10-22, 21:51   Link #151
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Speaking of which, there was another wasted chance for the anime team to make good fillers. What about those who graduated 1,2 or 3 years before Neji,
You mean like Kotestu and Izumo? I thought they have been featured in a few filler episodes.
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Old 2012-10-23, 01:52   Link #152
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
A satisfactory explanation would be where Madara's will and Obito's personality are mixed in some messy way so that Tobi's thinking is neither rational nor emotional, but a schizophrenic mix of these two very different personalities. For example a fated Sasuke vs Naruto fight has to be the emotional Madara's goal, neither Obito nor the old rational Madara would want a fight that should not matter to them any more. Then Tobi playing the idiot when he joins akatsuki seemed to me as if Obito played the old himself, doing that had nothing to do with Madara's will or personality.
a mental mixture of obito and madara was always what i wanted to see happen until we met spiral zetsu. to me, it looks like tobi's goofy side is actually spiral zetsu who must have merged with obito at some point. i think it all came together after that long talk about pooping they had... that said, i'd still like to know where spiral zetsu's personality came from. i cant see madara and/or hashirama being that silly ever unless it was like their childishness that they cast aside or something like that
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Old 2012-10-23, 02:30   Link #153
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You mean like Kotestu and Izumo? I thought they have been featured in a few filler episodes.
Yes, against the rampant ninja...ostrich. And they got their asses kicked.
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Old 2012-10-23, 05:03   Link #154
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
We are just waiting for Obito's breakdown, apology to Kakashi, embrace of the Will of Fire, and then Heroic Sacrifice.
darth vader *cough cough*
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Old 2012-10-23, 06:12   Link #155
Ero-Senn1n
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Why on earth would we want to see the "Not Konoha 12!" when we barely see the real Konoha 12 as it is? There probably was a Team 9 in Naruto's class. Do we care about them? No!
Because they are reserved for Kishimoto, we often see that the anime team is creating a plot where nothing really happens to these konoha 12 characters, because if there was something important that might be in conflict with the manga author's will. For example they cannot invent that Hinata learned how to infuse her chakra with lighting element to create lightning Hyuuga taijutsu because that will most likely contradict the manga later on. Because of this (and their lack of imagination, etc.) the anime team's filler stories with konoha 12 are boring and lame. But they could have created countless side characters from other generations (for example between Kakashi's and Naruto's generations or between Naruto's and Konohamaru's) and show them fighting either at home defending the village or in the war. Most importantly that would have added credibility to the claim that 40,000 ninja had died on the first day. Nobody from the named characters died. Remember how many complaints there were that the zombies were dumbed down for this war, people like Deidara who single handedly attacked the sand village and took out their kage in his own village have now become weak. The anime team could have introduced some people to show that not only Naruto's generation can be strong and have a name and more importantly to show them sacrifice themselves against people like Deidara so that we would believe that Deidara was not dumbed down and that those 40,000 dead are real.

And i'm not saying that the manga should have introduced them, it's all about the anime, they have half an hour each week and they have such great opportunities to do good but they almost always fail. End of rant
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Old 2012-10-23, 20:10   Link #156
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^what you're saying in regards to a development with hinata possibly contradicting the future manga is true, but the same holds for an interesting story. these new characters would still have nothing interesting to do and they wouldn't have cool missions because anything interesting and/or cool would probably pose the same risk of contradicting the manga in the future. they'd all end up chasing stink bugs, farting, meeting friendly woodland creatures or inhaling laughing gas each filler episode like the k11 do already.
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Old 2012-10-23, 20:51   Link #157
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You're mistaken if you think the anime team can't make good fillers because they don't find good subject to write about. The problem is simply that they are terribles writers so it doesn't matter what they their episodes is about : it's going to suck no matter what.
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Old 2012-10-24, 00:44   Link #158
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Full spoilers have been released, so here is the new chapter thread. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.
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Old 2012-10-24, 13:54   Link #159
Ero-Senn1n
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You're mistaken if you think the anime team can't make good fillers because they don't find good subject to write about. The problem is simply that they are terribles writers so it doesn't matter what they their episodes is about : it's going to suck no matter what.
That's the one thing that we can be sure of
But regardless of that my complaint was about how they have each week half an hour of time and they have the animation budget and even the manga author gives them plenty of holes to fill in, and yet they didn't even try. Not trying is even worse than trying and failing. Also, even if what you say about their abilities is obviously right, but to create such story arcs would be easier to them then focusing so much on canon characters and showing us 100000 times the rasengan. So i think that way their incompetence would be less apparent and painful.
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