2012-10-21, 19:39 | Link #161 | |
Moe Kyun~!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
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2012-10-22, 02:29 | Link #162 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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[mod edit: tangent moved from Episode 16 thread]
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Second, there's nothing innately wrong with "Kayaba's" technology. You're basically saying that if a microwave oven is built that can kill the user, all microwave ovens would be banned, and any new ovens attempting to do the same thing would have to be invented from scratch based on entirely different principles. When some pretty simple changes would prevent any more microwave ovens from killing the user. Third, ALO being able to interact with NerveGear is a matter of software, not hardware. Other Amusphere games likely exist that do not support NerveGear. The bottom line is that what the did was take the technology, and use it to design a new helmet that is safe. This would not be difficult, or require R&D from the ground up. Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-10-22 at 03:02. |
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2012-10-22, 02:39 | Link #163 | |
( ಠ_ಠ)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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I've repeatedly said I'm not talking about all like-wise technology, over, and over, and over. I know you and everyone else on that side of the argument is stuck on this idea of "all or nothing", and that's why I made sure to reliterate that's not my intention. But you keep bringing it up, and repeating the same strawman I tried to prevent. It's pointless to continue this if you're not going to actually be on the same page of discussion, and relentless is getting itchy fingers.
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2012-10-22, 02:48 | Link #164 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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My point is that Amusphere is a likewise technology. It does the same thing as NerveGear, on the same principles, just with a design that's safe. They didn't just give NerveGear a software update and slap a new case on it like you imply by calling it a "carbon copy" and "tweaked a little" What you seem to be saying however, is that even that is insufficient and they would have to come up with a design that operates on entirely different principles before it would be allowed. |
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2012-10-22, 02:53 | Link #165 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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Well, that's another discussion entirely, so let's have at it.
The similarities of Nerve Gear and AmuSphere... as long as we focus on that, we can continue, right relentless? Granted, I got this off wiki, but Quote:
It pretty much clearly says so. It says, it took NerveGear, and simply increased security and safty measures. It also uses the same standard as NerveGear, making it compatible with its predecessor. They didn't just take principals of how NerveGear works and developed an entirely new system... they took the product, duct-taped it, and said to the public "hey! it's safe!".
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2012-10-22, 03:44 | Link #166 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Spoiler for concerning amusphere:
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2012-10-22, 04:24 | Link #167 |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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That's rediulous. It doesn't take a very high amount of electricity to fry a brain, if that thing can pump that into the brain in the first place.
I don't think the public will go "oh, ok. So you say you took a brain frying unit and lowered voltage, awesome. I'll hook it up to my brain immediately!" Yeeeeah that's not gonna fly, regardless of if it's really safe or not. And it's still taking the same ol' gear and engine, and tweaking it. I expect at least an decade before Kayaba tech is reviewed and reexamined into the public, and meanwhile focus on similar technology developments by other companies. The fear of the mad scientist leaving other black boxes would linger in the people's minds, as it should.
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2012-10-22, 09:48 | Link #168 |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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Think of it this way. Imagine if instead of "Magic Microwave Death" Kayaba instead just put a tiny bomb in every single NervGear.
Would VR-tech itself be to blame? Is it the NervGear itself, or the bomb that's dangerous? Or would people just say "Oh, just don't build one with a bomb in it." Following that, there seems to be a bit of confusion between Government Regulation and Free-Market Capitalism. Maybe the public IS too scared of it. So it doesn't sell and the company goes bankrupt, oh well. ( I mentioned before, but a dedicated portion of hardcore gamers would likely be willing to try out a new game regardless of the risks) But that's different from the government stepping in and banning stuff, rather than just getting heavily involved in the regulation of it. Spoiler for Some minor info on the Amusphere from Novel 5:
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2012-10-22, 13:56 | Link #169 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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doesn't look like VMMORPG is that far form reality.
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2012-10-22, 14:13 | Link #171 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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So all they could do to keep access to the VR capacity is keep Kayaba's tech, stick a bunch of hardware safeties on it, and hope it still works as a VR helmet. |
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2012-10-22, 14:38 | Link #172 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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I think Oculus Rift is closer to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzCwczY1jTM What the article describes is what the 3DS already does. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk3rSX-vOVw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43uSXA9qUe8 |
2012-10-22, 22:41 | Link #173 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_1...r-humans-next/ so someone has solved "not completely" the eye-bran message, or how the brain interprets messages from the eye. this is a HUGE step in essentially plugging a wire into the brain (or in the future a wireless signal), and telling the brain to "see" whatever computer generated graphic we want it to see. now we just need this for all the other senses. hmm, seems like VRMMORPGs in 2025 isn't that unrealistic |
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2012-10-26, 06:09 | Link #174 | |
the cynic
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Somewhere between life and death.
Age: 42
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This can't be helped, the author is a writer not an engineer - although it's possible for an author to be both such as when an engineer quits and turn writer; although I don't believe this happens very often due to the very different skill set and attitudes required to be writer; compared to say lawyer-turn-writers or physician-turn-writers. We just have to close an eye toward "suspension of belief " breaking errors and just accept them as "dramatic license". As for the safety of nerve gear and its successor, I don't really know enough about beaming microwaves into people's brain to induce imagery and sound to comment - no one does since this is not possible (yet or maybe never). However it could be analogous to lasers where some HMDs effectively shines a laser directly into your eye and draws straight onto the retina and for most part are safe - although there have been concerns about its safety, it doesn't take much power from a laser to fry a persons's eyes.
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2012-10-26, 08:47 | Link #175 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 31
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Too be clear: You can indeed stimulate the brain with microwaves for letting people see ghosts or other precences or even for letting them hear noices or voices inside of their heads. But there are at least 2 problems: Firstly you can't control the effect on the brain. Everybody reacts different for the same wavelength and frequency of the microwaves. Some just feel headaches while others see ghosts or are even unaffected. Secondly the brain can't stand microwaves for too long, not only the brain but your whole body cannot, as the microwaves destroy your cells and is followed mostly by cancer. Well in the brain that's more or less a certain death...so not really appropiate for a toy. Solutions (maybe): For the first prob you maybe could tune your NerveGear so that you can control the wavelength with the result that you can find the frequency to which your brain reacts... For the second prob I don't really know a solution as it's a matter of fact that for interfering with the brainwaves you need a wavelength that is at least near the one for the brainwaves and I don't think those are to good for the brain if they are put onto there for serveral hours over a limited timeframe. Maybe sometimes in the future you pack it to create inteference while having a frequency much lower then the brainwaves so it doesn't destroy the cells but that's more or less speculation |
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2012-10-26, 10:06 | Link #176 | ||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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tl;dr, go study more on EM radiation. |
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2012-10-26, 11:13 | Link #177 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 31
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And it is simply a fact that microwaves aswell as nearly all waves with the right wavelength can be followed by headaches and feelings of uneasyness, with the right psychological stimulation (btw I don't mean sth like suggestion, that is crap aswell) you can even bring people to see things that aren't there, that is the thing most people accuse of being the reason for your so called ghost sightings and so on. I'm not trying to say you can control people per remote control or such crap, that's total nonesense, just that microwaves can have actual effects on your brain. And ofc microwaves is non-ionizing, I never said sth else, that is clear. I just wanted to give a simple explaination that anybody (also those who didn't have physics in school or university) can understand, I didn't want to put a whole theory at this forum with actual formulas and sample calculations. XD |
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2012-10-26, 11:26 | Link #178 | ||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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2012-10-26, 11:42 | Link #179 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 31
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So indeed conspiracy theories sometimes can be the actual starting point for experiments or theories ^^ A well for the paper I already have a case in mind but I totally can't remember the name of the researcher to who that happened. The case itself I can remember: The researcher if I recall right tried to look what wavelength a small metal pipe can withstand until it begins to well let's say break. So after he put the wavelength on the pipe he began to work and make experiments and after some while he "saw" sth in the ankle of his eyes, when he tried to focus it it dissappeared and that phenomena started everytime after a certain while after he startet sitting next to the pipe. To make it short after some while as as researcher he couldn't believe in ghosts and similar things tried to find the reason for his experiences, well after he put the wavelength from the metal pipe the whole thingy in his eyes disappeared and he made the swinging pipe the reason for that phenomen. I have a book in which his name stands but I'm currently at home and the book is where I study so for the name you will have to wait till monday then I can give it to you And for mind, well I already said that that is crap and impossible even in 2000 years I think, ik that is still far from the NerveGear, it's just the nearest thing possible that I pointed out, not the correct solution ^^ |
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2012-10-26, 12:07 | Link #180 | ||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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I can get you a copy of a "research paper" by flat-earthers, doesn't mean what they wrote in there remotely resembles reality. |
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