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Old 2012-10-23, 05:01   Link #5021
Kirayuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Im sorry that battle has lots of Stock footage.
Just trying to be clear here, I'm not necessarily arguing which one (Kira vs Shinn) is better here.

My original gripe about your previous post is why you took Znozzy's opinion (why he think Kira lost to Shinn during that battle) with an image from previous encounter that doesn't really hold any relevance for the related battle where Kira lost (plus that statement of why you think Kira sucks, which is fine if that's what you think but it's a different matter from what Znoozzy brought up). He didn't necessarily say who is the better one here.

And sorry, are you trying to say Shinn simply sucks because of stock footage ?

please elaborate more.
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Old 2012-10-23, 05:32   Link #5022
PzIVf3
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Im referring the half of the episode up to the ending thats lot of stock footage w/ poor writing.

That image i post about? Just use your Instinct. How come he dodge the saber without knowing Kira weakness from Rey? He did his own move. There is no distraction just man to man. He might have notice of his attack pattern from the previous battle it would probably beat the freedom without knowing Rey tips. Isn't amazing?

Kira lost by a distraction? WHat can you do for the Archangel when you can't take care of your opponent it would leave yourself wide open to the enemy.

If you disagree then talk to WackyModder84 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcWHKT8eH8s

Last edited by PzIVf3; 2012-10-23 at 05:45.
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Old 2012-10-23, 05:59   Link #5023
Gundamx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
If you've seen the anime, you'd know its from when Kira cuts down the saviour after Athrun makes a really good argument and Kira simply replies with "But right now Cagalli is crying, etc etc" instead of bringing up a good counter-argument, then he cuts Athrun down, that makes the line hated because the reasoning behind it is retarded and the " Stop fighting " is just pretty hilarious in a bad way aswell, of course people bring it up when the first of the two doesnt make any sense at all
He only said that once for god sake in all 50 eps to his friends not random enemy but for some reason every one act as if he say that to random people every time he go to fight...

Also in that fight Kira was not fighting for right neither wrong.. it's like you see your brother fighting 10 stronger people >> even if he was wrong/ the one who start it > you can't just let him get killed can you?
You first try to stop the fight than you can let your brother apology.

In other word > Kira was watching his country soldiers getting killed like fly and you want him to act as if nothing happened?
He didn't help them but didn't let them being killed.
And even if Cagalli return at that point whcat can she do other than end as hostage for blus cosmos/fiance to control arc angel & freedom?
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Old 2012-10-23, 06:34   Link #5024
Kirayuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Im referring the half of the episode up to the ending thats lot of stock of footage w/ poor writing.
While I do agree with poor writing and lots of stock footage, it's by no means a valid argument IMO as to how Shinn isn't any different when he got into Destiny. We can just dismiss everybody who sucks or lose with this excuse then.

Quote:
That image i post about? Just use your Instinct. How come he dodge the saber without knowing Kira weakness from Rey? He might have notice of his attack pattern from the previous battle it would probably beat the freedom without Rey tips. Isn't amazing?
Just because of that one event doesn't necessarily means he would still win without Rey's help, and the thing you are talking about is a speculation. The fact is that doesn't happen in the show. Shinn got the advice from Rey, period.

As to what would happen if he didn't get the advice, who knows he might win like you said but I won't get into this.

Clearly, the reason Shinn won is just not because he was amazing. He outsmarted Kira with Rey's advice too. I don't know why are you trying to glorify Shinn so much here when nobody glorified Kira on the first place.

Quote:
Kira lost by a distraction? WHat can you do for the Archangel when you can't take care of your opponent it would leave yourself wide open to the enemy.

If you disagree then talk to WackyModder84 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcWHKT8eH8s
I know WackyModder84 (I was there reading his post during the whole ordeal in the past), and I'm pretty sure the guy himself said it pretty clear that the whole fight is just so retarded, which I agree. Still, you are the one who are giving the argument here so please don't shove it to him. Especially I've already made it clear from my previous post that I wasn't even taking stance of Kira or Shinn here. My whole point is why you are trying to glorify Shinn so much.

Last edited by Kirayuki; 2012-10-23 at 06:45.
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Old 2012-10-23, 08:03   Link #5025
I Fail at Life
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I know someone is not trying to Link ep 28 with 34. Treading old ground here again, but here we go


All the Bull they pulled to have kira/freedom defeated ep 34:
1. Nerf, Freedom's performance was inconsistent, compared to every episode before this one.
2. Have Kira be distracted (yes I know why he was distracted, so don't say it) but it's still one of the bull moves they pulled, just so he can be defeated.
3. ASS piercing Phase Shift Armor. Not even going to.
4. Hocus Pocus. ASS magically grows a beam at the tip
5. Apparently freedom only has a beam rifle, as a ranged weapon.

And still took 2 Impulses out. Are you kidding me!

Take away 1-4 then sit here and try to tell me the outcome would still be the same. I'll throw in pre-freedom Kira or Seed End Kira, and how many of you will say Shinn wins ( with certainty).

Can't stand people that rarely ever post in a certain thread *cough* PzIVf3 *cough*
maybe once in a Blue Moon, goes in there say you for example, waving that shinn flag, Advocating how he was able to dodge this, how the other pilot could not do this. Irrelevant to or to what everybody else is discussing, you could not disguise that very well, saw right through it. I see this all the time, not even strictly speaking Anime or Gundam, but other Mediums ass well.

A Quote from Rau:
"After all people only know, of what they Experienced"

What a joke.
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Old 2012-10-23, 10:14   Link #5026
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Actually, Kira understands Minerva's situation. That's why he saved the Minerva on his second interference. That said, due to Cagalli, Kira obviously would have an Orb bias.
True, true. It's still not justified for him to cut Athrun down instead of telling him to back off and let Cagalli talk to ORB again, or back of and " he will do what he can "

Quote:
The thing about Athrun is that he's preventing Kira from what he's trying to do. Kira wasn't about to let Athrun detain him for the rest of the battle. (Unfortunately, Athrun detained Kira long enough that Shinn was free to destroy the Takemikazuchi.)
True, but it was todaka who made the choice to lead a air/mobilesuit carrier head headon first into the middle of the battle to toss Yuna off the battlefield and have the Murasame's head to Archangel, Shinn acted out of orders and pure rage, i see nothing wrong with that.


Quote:
Why do you think they needed to defend their territory against the Minerva in the first place when the Minerva was already allowed inside Orb? It's because they've allied themselves with the EA and the EA had just officially declared war with the PLANTs. Who says they would?
i rewatched the episode, you are right there, i recently watched all HD remaster episodes, i got it mixed up with the Archangel's entrance into orb territories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
Yes it does. He's now part of ZAFT. Actual military, high ranking at that. Before he was always an outsider now he's actually a soldier. An official soldier.
i dunno. i have a hard time understanding the giant asspull Fukuda threw there, Kira suddenly showing up in a white uniform made no sense at all, that would mean he is the captain? of the Eternal or Lacus bodyguard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
He only said that once for god sake in all 50 eps to his friends not random enemy but for some reason every one act as if he say that to random people every time he go to fight...
Yup, left quite a impression, didn't it?

Quote:
Also in that fight Kira was not fighting for right neither wrong.. it's like you see your brother fighting 10 stronger people >> even if he was wrong/ the one who start it > you can't just let him get killed can you?
You first try to stop the fight than you can let your brother apology.
i'm sorry, that comparison makes no sense at all, since the EAF/ORB (the 10 stronger guys) started the fight, and Athrun (the brother) was the one defending himself, you dont stop a fight with 10 guys jumping your brother by knocking said brother out.

Quote:
In other word > Kira was watching his country soldiers getting killed like fly and you want him to act as if nothing happened?
He didn't help them but didn't let them being killed.
And even if Cagalli return at that point whcat can she do other than end as hostage for blus cosmos/fiance to control arc angel & freedom?
I never said Kira shouldnt do anything, what i meant was that Kira acted like a selfish idiot and cut his best friend down instead of telling him to back off and let him sort ORB out.
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Old 2012-10-23, 10:16   Link #5027
monster
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So, I still don't know what the image that PzIVf3 posted is about. Anyone one to tell me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Kira lost by a distraction? WHat can you do for the Archangel when you can't take care of your opponent it would leave yourself wide open to the enemy.
If you're arguing that it's foolish of Kira to not do his best to take care of Shinn, then I agree, and even Kira admitted it.

If you're arguing that Kira did his best and still lost to Shinn, then I disagree. Shinn counted on the fact that Kira wouldn't target vital parts of Impulse and that's what happened. The fact that Kira didn't fight to kill (ignoring for the moment any controversy with a certain split Impulse scene) means that Kira didn't do his best.

And that's before taking into account the fact that Kira was looking at the Archangel and going away from Shinn during their battle. If you don't see that as being distracted, I don't know what else to say.

That's not to say Shinn's win isn't valid. It's a battle, not some game where everything has to be fair, so a win is a win no matter what.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
True, but it was todaka who made the choice to lead a air/mobilesuit carrier head headon first into the middle of the battle to toss Yuna off the battlefield and have the Murasame's head to Archangel, Shinn acted out of orders and pure rage, i see nothing wrong with that.
I'm not blaming Shinn for anything. You were claiming that it was wrong for Kira to take out Athrun and I was saying why he had to do it.
Quote:
I never said Kira shouldnt do anything, what i meant was that Kira acted like a selfish idiot and cut his best friend down instead of telling him to back off and let him sort ORB out.
Athrun wouldn't have listened. The only way for Kira to reduce the amount of Orb casualty when Orb wasn't going to retreat is to take out both sides, and you can't expect Athrun to not do anything while that's happening.
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Old 2012-10-23, 10:25   Link #5028
Kirayuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
So, I still don't know what the image that PzIVf3 posted is about. Anyone one to tell me?
It's the 2nd battle with ORB/EA where Shinn activated SEED Mode and dodged incoming beam saber attack from Kira.
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Old 2012-10-23, 10:28   Link #5029
monster
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Thanks, Kirayuki.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirayuki View Post
It's the 2nd battle with ORB/EA where Shinn activated SEED Mode and dodged incoming beam saber attack from Kira.
So Kira doesn't know how to use his skill intelligently just because someone can dodge his attack? Is that what's being claimed here?
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Old 2012-10-23, 11:03   Link #5030
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
. Athrun wouldn't have listened. The only way for Kira to reduce the amount of Orb casualty when Orb wasn't going to retreat is to take out both sides, and you can't expect Athrun to not do anything while that's happening.
Athrun did try to disable ORB crafts though, i highly doubt he wanted to fight ORB soldiers to begin with, my bet is that he would've listened, but it's just speculation, so i'll leave it at that
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Old 2012-10-23, 18:40   Link #5031
PzIVf3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Thanks, Kirayuki. So Kira doesn't know how to use his skill intelligently just because someone can dodge his attack? Is that what's being claimed here?
Lol. Have you noticed the same move (stock footage) that his using over and over? The way of his fighting its seem he has limited move and Shinn able to create a counter move and applied effectively. Its right there all the time. Kira been fighting the same strategy.

If you engaging at boxing Do you think the same fighting tactics will make you win without using actual intelligent on your opponent movements and timing of attack?



Quote:
My whole point is why you are trying to glorify Shinn so much.
Im simply defending his rights. We blame the writer who affected by a Kirafans seeing forcefully made him a poor level skills in the ending so the rating will go up. Dont you feel how frustrated they made that way or you are part of Kira cultivist fans?

Last edited by PzIVf3; 2012-10-23 at 19:33.
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Old 2012-10-23, 19:04   Link #5032
I Fail at Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Lol. Have you noticed the same move (stock footage) that his using over and over?
Now I know you not trying to start something back up , it's been blown over for awhile. Let it go.
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Old 2012-10-23, 19:14   Link #5033
kaito-kid
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@Znozzy: The most important thing is that Kira had an idea on how to stop the fight. Athrun didn't.. In fact he wasn't really doing much other than showing off some cool transformation maneuvers until Kira arrived. Shin was way more effective then Athrun.

Kira has his own way of stoping a fight, which is to "take out" all the big players on the battlefield and simply intimidate them into retreat. He did that in the first fight and it worked.. So he wanted to do it again and limit ORB's casualties and it's further involvement in the fight, because he can and Athrun obviously couldn't do any of that.

Sure it's not the best way to do it (too humiliating), but it sure was effective, since he got everyone to stop fu*king arount in a matter of minutes. (Even though things would have been a little different the second time because of a pissed off Shinn in seed mode)

And in the end Athrun got disabled because he allowed himself to be disabled..
I'm sure at the end even Kira was like (in a Xzibit accent): Lol.. that's all ya got?! Yo dawg, u such pu**y now!


Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Lol. Have you noticed the same move (stock footage) that his using over and over? The way of his fighting its seem he has limited move and Shinn able to create a counter move and applied effectively. Its right there all the time. Kira been fighting the same strategy.
I'm not sure if I understand your point here..
I don't think Kira saw anything more than a grunt when he saw the Impulse.. So obviously he approached him like he usually does against a grunt.. Shinn being a trained pilot and one of the most talented prospects of the ZAFT academy (a.k.a: not a noob) dodged his attack.. What so special about that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Im simply defending his rights. We blame the writer who affected by a Kirafans seeing forcefully made him a poor level skills in the ending so the rating will go up. Dont you feel how frustrated they made that way?
ooh boy.. You shouldn't believe everything you reed on the internet. Just say'n..
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Last edited by kaito-kid; 2012-10-23 at 22:25.
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Old 2012-10-23, 22:21   Link #5034
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Lol. Have you noticed the same move (stock footage) that his using over and over? The way of his fighting its seem he has limited move and Shinn able to create a counter move and applied effectively. Its right there all the time. Kira been fighting the same strategy.
That's because it's been effective most of the time. Even in the Impulse vs Freedom battle, if Impulse wasn't designed to be able to replace parts mid battle, Shinn would've been disabled by Kira.
Quote:
If you engaging at boxing Do you think the same fighting tactics will make you win without using actual intelligent on your opponent movements and timing of attack?
If your opponent doesn't know how to counter your "tactic" or is somehow unable to counter, then yes, you can win with the same "tactic."
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Old 2012-10-23, 22:26   Link #5035
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
@Znozzy: The most important thing is that Kira had an idea on how to stop the fight. Athrun didn't.. In fact he wasn't really doing much other than showing off some cool transformation maneuvers until Kira arrived. Shin was way more effective then Athrun.
fuck you, you made me spit out my coffee all over my keyboard. well played sir!
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Old 2012-10-24, 00:05   Link #5036
zeroexia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
fuck you, you made me spit out my coffee all over my keyboard. well played sir!
lol, unfortunately the Saviour got the short end of the stick as Gundams go. And like always Athrun always loses his mobile suit or a part of it.


And well for Kira's upgrade to white coat, I'm not sure if it was ever explained what he was but at the very least he's at the same level of authority as Yzak. So he's either a commander or a ship captain, more likely a Commander.

Here's an example of DESTINY end ranks. I guess having your girlfriend as Chairman entitles you to skip ranks. (I think Shinn was still red coat at the end too, must be angry that Kira is higher than him and can order him around. )



On a side note, Athrun stayed as a commanding officer at Orb. People in CE have such weird career changes.
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Old 2012-10-24, 01:26   Link #5037
monster
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That white uniform is probably my favorite in all of CE. Unfortunately, the white pilot suit that goes with it is probably my least favorite in all of CE. I guess one good thing for me about not having another CE show featuring Kira post Destiny is that I don't have to see Kira wearing that pilot suit.
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Old 2012-10-24, 04:19   Link #5038
Gundamx
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Isn't white coat = downgrade in rank for Kira?
Because at Destiny end (anime) his rank was admiral right?
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Old 2012-10-24, 05:57   Link #5039
Kirayuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3 View Post
Im simply defending his rights. We blame the writer who affected by a Kirafans seeing forcefully made him a poor level skills in the ending so the rating will go up.
If this is the case, why you said that Shinn might win even if he didn't get help from Rey because he managed to read Kira attacks before in the previous encounter ? Clearly, you are overrating Shinn too much here. To the point you are even willing to take credit from Rey.

Quote:
Dont you feel how frustrated they made that way or you are part of Kira cultivist fans?
I simply don't care that much about the show, nor do I care who is the better one here.

So, you simply ask me to choose Shinn or Kira ? No room for a middle ground ?

Fine then, I won't bother you anymore. The last thing we need is another Shinn vs Kira argument
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Old 2012-10-24, 06:55   Link #5040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
lol, unfortunately the Saviour got the short end of the stick as Gundams go. And like always Athrun always loses his mobile suit or a part of it.


And well for Kira's upgrade to white coat, I'm not sure if it was ever explained what he was but at the very least he's at the same level of authority as Yzak. So he's either a commander or a ship captain, more likely a Commander.

Here's an example of DESTINY end ranks. I guess having your girlfriend as Chairman entitles you to skip ranks. (I think Shinn was still red coat at the end too, must be angry that Kira is higher than him and can order him around. )



On a side note, Athrun stayed as a commanding officer at Orb. People in CE have such weird career changes.
Does that mean that Shinn is about to be kicked upstairs in the GSD follow-up (assuming that it goes through)?

Given what happened to Kamille post-Zeta, and that Shinn was supposed to be CE's version of Kamille.
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