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Old 2012-10-25, 16:45   Link #1261
Shadow5YA
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They may have apprehended the criminal, but I have a feeling they didn't solve or prevent the crime.

The factory originally had a system to prevent the factory workers' Psycho-Passes from clouding over by reassigning the workers to different locations, but that practice ended a year ago. Why?

It's obvious that someone (most likely the manager) stopped it to encourage bullying. The bullies clear their Psycho-Passes by picking on someone, while the bullied clears his Psycho-Pass by retaliating in secret like Kanehara did. If the victim's Psycho-Pass does not become clear over time, the manager can let the authorities remove him.

Yes, I suspect the murders by Kanehara were also a part of the factory manager's system, considering how he can see everything with the security cameras. There is nothing to prevent another factory worker from becoming the next Kanehara.

I also suspect that the factory's isolation from the Sybil System is not just to prevent hacking, but to prevent the manager from being exposed as well. If the police do not have the Sybil System, they have no Crime Coefficients. Naturally they would go after the person with the worst Psycho-Pass, which would be the bullied-victim-turned-vengeful-murderer like Kanehara. The police would be distracted by Kanehara, and the calmer, more conspiring criminal such as the factory manager would slip under the radar everytime.
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Old 2012-10-25, 16:47   Link #1262
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
What I'd like to know is WHAT is the exact problem with taking a potentially dangerous individual into custody? And let me stress this again: They got the right guy.
Well the main problem is that it conflicts with the sense of justice that we have in a modern society. That people aren't "punished" for crimes they have not yet committed. The guy in question hadn't actually committed any crimes.

Of course that wouldn't be a very good argument to make to people in the Psycho-Pass universe. They'd argue that law enforcement in their universe isn't about punishing people for crimes. It's about crime prevention. And they've taken it to its scientific conclusion, using profiling to determine who has the most potential to be a criminal.


I'm very well of the rather terrifying implications of how authoritarian a state like this could be. The only plus side I can see for the system at this point, it seems less interested in enforcing ideological purity, so much as enforcing mental health. So far we haven't see any evidence that a non criminally inclined, mentally healthy political activist is suppressed by the system that cybil has created, though that could change. As is, the only *victims* of this police state apparatus are the incurable criminals, or people who try to violently resist treatment.
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Old 2012-10-25, 17:14   Link #1263
Shadow5YA
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Also I'd like to add that by disposing Kanehara, they are doing exactly what the factory manager wants them to do. The manager wanted someone to become the disposable sacrifice, and Kanehara was disposed of in the end. Despite Akane and Shinya opposing the bullying, they gave the factory workers exactly what they wanted.
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Old 2012-10-25, 17:33   Link #1264
blackwhite67
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Sometimes mental health is is only possible under the condition that you are free to feel and believe what you want. That includes criminal thoughts. Psycho-pass might very well be the cause of a person being a latent criminal like with that poor sap in the first episode.

I have a bad feeling about where this show is heading with this latest episode. It could be that Kogami's threats pushed the man into becoming a criminal when he wasn't the REAL criminal. The REAL criminal might be the factory manager, which they might find out in the next episode when they scan the Hue Assessment with the Sibyl System. Of course, this would mean Kogami pushed an innocent man, and by innocent I mean a man whose psycho-pass had not overstepped regulations, into becoming one.
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Old 2012-10-25, 17:37   Link #1265
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Spoiler for Episode:
Obviously the Dominator has a number of ways to do threat assessment. Remember that the dominator only went into kill mood in episode 1 after it was used, and unable to restrain a suspect. Since the suspect in this case got immediately shot and incapacitated, there was no need to use kill mode on him.


And the third mode was hardly overkill considering the size of the construction bots trying to kill them. I'm guessing the system was smart enough to realize the robots were hostile, and based on their size, authorized it to go to antimaterial mode.

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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Also I'd like to add that by disposing Kanehara, they are doing exactly what the factory manager wants them to do.
Noooooooo. The factory manager wanted them to write this off as an accident. Having it be known that the way the factory ran drove someone nuts enough to murder is something he doesn't want happening. Especially when he's the one who ran the factory.


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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
I have a bad feeling about where this show is heading with this latest episode. It could be that Kogami's threats pushed the man into becoming a criminal when he wasn't the REAL criminal. The REAL criminal might be the factory manager, which they might find out in the next episode when they scan the Hue Assessment with the Sibyl System. Of course, this would mean Kogami pushed an innocent man, and by innocent I mean a man whose psycho-pass had not overstepped regulations, into becoming one.
That's extremely unlikely that the guy in this case was somehow an innocent guy pushed over the edge. Remember. These robots AREN'T programmed to kill people normally. If someone wanted to use these robots to murder people, they'd have to have made programming for it ahead of time. Remember the Johnny Memonic USB port he stuck into the robots? Are you saying the innocent guy just *happened* to have a USB port on him that would let him turn the drones into killbots? Or are you saying he made the killbot programming in five minutes?


I think the system in Pyscho-pass potentially has allot of things wrong with it. But I'm not sure people are being entirely rational when they push this meme that every single criminal we've seen has only had hue problems because of the evil gubmint come to get them.
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Old 2012-10-25, 17:50   Link #1266
miroku2192
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I honestly think a lot of people are missing some key points.

The one thing I would like to highlight out in this episode is the whole Chief-scene.

Where we get the initial sense that the bullied victim actually has a lowered Psycho-pass as a result of him committing a crime and killing someone...

Now that's messed up, and another sign, from a different perspective that this system has loopholes and problems.

All these episodes are giving us little tidbits about the loopholes and roundabouts one can use to "combat" the Sibyl system, not solely telling us about the problems with the gun.

1) We know that a victim can be pushed over the threshold.
2) We know people can negate the effects of the psycho-pass reading (From Ep1, and from this episode --> If the area blocks of radio waves, if the person is "wired" in the sense that he lowers his psychopass by killing, etc.

And I can go on more but don't feel like using my head at the moment.

Episode 3 was fun.

As for the whole chief-dynamic thing, I'm betting the old "hunter" or w/e they're called, (as we were hinted in episode 1 as well), was a detective like Chief, they might've worked together, etc. However, he started listening to these hunters more and soon tried to become a "better detective" in finding out criminals/potential criminals, and like he said himself, became labeled as a potential criminal himself, and so he's now one of those hunters...

Hence the whole "You can learn from history, or be a fool, i hope you're not a fool". He's seen the example of a fool, the old detective-turned-hunter guy.
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Old 2012-10-25, 18:19   Link #1267
Lenneth4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Sometimes mental health is is only possible under the condition that you are free to feel and believe what you want. That includes criminal thoughts. Psycho-pass might very well be the cause of a person being a latent criminal like with that poor sap in the first episode.

I have a bad feeling about where this show is heading with this latest episode. It could be that Kogami's threats pushed the man into becoming a criminal when he wasn't the REAL criminal. The REAL criminal might be the factory manager, which they might find out in the next episode when they scan the Hue Assessment with the Sibyl System. Of course, this would mean Kogami pushed an innocent man, and by innocent I mean a man whose psycho-pass had not overstepped regulations, into becoming one.
Yeah it's interesting and i agree with you

I wonder what about the Bullyers ?
Why they dont increase their P-P each time they Bully someone , Bullying is free of pass ?
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Old 2012-10-25, 18:48   Link #1268
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Lenneth4 View Post
Yeah it's interesting and i agree with you
But he couldn't have been an innocent person that got pushed by Kogami into committing a crime. He'd already had a data storage device that could turn the drones into killbots.



See that? That's a murder weapon. And not just any murder weapon. It's a personalized, custom made murder weapon. He couldn't have made that in 5 minutes. He'd had to have it already in his possession.


Possession of a data disk that can make make robots murder people...in a factory that's been suffering freak accidents where robots brutally torture people to death...naaaaaw, must be a coincidence.
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Old 2012-10-25, 18:50   Link #1269
FlareKnight
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In the end they really haven't solved the key problem. With this guy going to jail the factory will just go back to it's previous policy. You signal out one guy to be the bullied victim, people relieve their stress by beating him up, and when he starts getting cloudy then you transfer him out so his stress will go down.

Certainly does show some problems with this whole system. Seems like certain people could commit criminal acts and yet look fine one the scanners. The fact that the bullies improved their psycho pass each time they picked on someone shows a real problem. You could have the world's greatest serial killer go on a rampage and yet never get arrested because the system would read him as being fine.
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Old 2012-10-25, 19:01   Link #1270
fertygo
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Now that's a pretty good episode, its starting to like sci-fi police drama series.

Btw I'm sure what happened on this episode isn't all smooth and more to come.
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Old 2012-10-25, 19:02   Link #1271
blakstealth
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Anything that's labeled "Johnny Mnemonic" should be deadly.
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Old 2012-10-25, 19:12   Link #1272
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
In the end they really haven't solved the key problem. With this guy going to jail the factory will just go back to it's previous policy. You signal out one guy to be the bullied victim, people relieve their stress by beating him up, and when he starts getting cloudy then you transfer him out so his stress will go down.
Considering that the Inspectors have a law and order duty to ensure mental health, I think work place conditions that resulted in something like this is something they could use to penalize the work place. Remember we didn't find out what happened to that woman in Episode 1 until the second one.

I think in the future we'll be hearing more about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Certainly does show some problems with this whole system. Seems like certain people could commit criminal acts and yet look fine one the scanners. The fact that the bullies improved their psycho pass each time they picked on someone shows a real problem. You could have the world's greatest serial killer go on a rampage and yet never get arrested because the system would read him as being fine.
Indeed. Mind, this seems to have been an exceptional situation, mainly because this was an isolated system from Sybils intense observation. But you're very much correct. The fact that the system can read a normal hue from someone serial killing does tell you there are holes in this system that someone can fall in through.
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Anything that's labeled "Johnny Mnemonic" should be deadly.
Seriously!
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Old 2012-10-25, 19:15   Link #1273
jeroz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Spoiler for Episode:
The read value for the guy in ep1 shot up to 300+ before he was gone. No contradictions here
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Old 2012-10-25, 19:20   Link #1274
Lenneth4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
But he couldn't have been an innocent person that got pushed by Kogami into committing a crime. He'd already had a data storage device that could turn the drones into killbots.



See that? That's a murder weapon. And not just any murder weapon. It's a personalized, custom made murder weapon. He couldn't have made that in 5 minutes. He'd had to have it already in his possession.


Possession of a data disk that can make make robots murder people...in a factory that's been suffering freak accidents where robots brutally torture people to death...naaaaaw, must be a coincidence.
Ohh ok
I get it
Thanks for explanation
Seems legit
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Old 2012-10-25, 20:01   Link #1275
Roger Rambo
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One thing that I REALLY do wanna find out from the next episode. We know this society permanently imprisons incurable people for the CHANCE they might commit murder in the future...but what does it do with people who HAVE committed horrible crimes, but are shown to be receptive to therapy? Is our perp in this episode going to go through a year or two of therapy, counseling and medication, then be deemed to be fit to be reintegrated back into society?

Something like that would definitely fit within the framework of a system that was focused more on crime prevention than retributive justice. But it's probably something that's a bitter pill for someone like Kagari to swallow. He was committed for life at the age of five, where as this other guy who is guilty of multiple counts of murder could get off with just a few years of confinement.
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Old 2012-10-25, 20:02   Link #1276
jeroz
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the problem is, the police are there to solve the murder case, not to fix the system. As much as we can see something's horribly wrong with the structure there, don't think there's anything the Justice department can do about it
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Old 2012-10-25, 20:05   Link #1277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
the problem is, the police are there to solve the murder case, not to fix the system. As much as we can see something's horribly wrong with the structure there, don't think there's anything the Justice department can do about it
Especially when it's also controlled by a part of the government. Might be less inclined to stick their nose in and tell another part of the system how to manage things.
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Old 2012-10-25, 20:17   Link #1278
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
You could have the world's greatest serial killer go on a rampage and yet never get arrested because the system would read him as being fine.
I think there are at least three different systems that each have slightly different functions: the Hue check, the dominator (Psycho-pass) and the Sibyl System. If I understand correctly, the Hue check reveals an individual's stress levels, which likely fluctuate in response to environmental stimuli. The Sibyl System appears to be the grand-daddy mainframe that does exhaustive profiling, taking into account not just Hue readings but also your biological data. Such profiling understandably takes a lot more time, a luxury that field officers do not enjoy, hence the use of dominators, which as Masaoka (the grizzled gumshoe) claims, shortcuts the entire profiling process through the Psycho-pass system. So far, it seems that "crime coefficients" get mentioned only with respect to the dominators, so the number is perhaps specific only to the Psycho-pass system?

My feeling is that, yes, you're right, a serial-killer who gets his kicks out of murderingpeople would likely not be flagged by the Hue system. But it's more than likely that Sibyl Judgment would have marked him as a latent criminal. Certainly, Shinya showed in the latest episode that he enjoys the thrill of the hunt and he clearly shows no hesitation in resorting to violence to get his prey — the identifying traits of a criminal, as defined by this alternative world.

If I'm right, and if the Sibyl System works as it is supposed to, all potential serial killers are already marked. Hence the label of "latent criminal". Whenever a crime takes place, any latent criminal in the vicinity would automatically become prime suspects.
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Old 2012-10-25, 20:24   Link #1279
Chiaki_chan
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If I understand if a person with a desire to kill, for example the level of stress increases and is detected by the system Sibyl? But if a person comes to kept his "cool" and remains calm no matter his desire (good or bad) what will happen? Finally, I say that if it is possible ...
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Old 2012-10-25, 21:08   Link #1280
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Crime Coefficient and Hue seem to be clearly different things. A cold blooded murderer would still have a high Crime Coefficient, if I understand this correctly.

You know, this Sibyl system. We've seen bits and pieces of it over the last few episodes.

In the first episode we see the system advises a course of action depending on a combination of CC and circumstance (going to lethal mode after paralysis shot failed to work).

In the second episode, it is mentioned that the Sibyl system does more than just determine Crime Coefficients, it actually analyzes a person's aptitude for various jobs. It gave Akane a high aptitude for being an Inspector, and she shows an ability to empathize with the Enforcers, and make certain decisions that others wouldn't.

In the third episode, we get to a further emphasis on the difference between CC and Hue. The culprit's Hue was below the danger zone because the murders lowered it. The Sibyl system did assign a rather high Crime Coefficient regardless of this.

All of this makes it seem like the Sibyl system is in fact, not the problem here. It's the people who make use of the system.
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